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Topic: Tubular Bells Ultimate Edition problems< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Inkanta Offline




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Posted: July 26 2009, 09:24

I know that everyone is very frustrated with this situation; hopefully a resolution is forthcoming.  Greed, arrogance, etc. are not factors here--seems to me that record companies struggle too much to stay relevant and afloat for that to be a factor. We really don't know what happened here and can only speculate at this point, but an explanation just might lead to more confidence when it comes to ordering future products.

As for Mike, maybe by now he knows about it and is as upset as the rest of us.  And exactly what is he supposed to do? Storm Universal/Mercury? Break his legally binding contract? I think he is between a rock and a hard place in this. He isn't exactly involved in the day-to-day business operations. If it were a company like the Giant Electric Pea where a former IQ member actually distributes the works and takes your money, yeah. But Mike is far removed from that process. Besides, we don't know what he is doing--he might be on the phone every day with them over this. We don't know.  I think this would be a really good case study for a business school course. But that doesn't help us have our goods or decent vinyls. /-:

Regarding profanity in posts and reference to illegal transactions....as per the forum guidelines, such posts are subject to removal. The guidelines phrase it as posts that are "excessively profane" and I suppose that is open to interpretation. One f-word? Five? No f-words but something dreadfully graphic? But illegal transactions really doesn't need to be operationally defined, so please be mindful of such things.


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Posted: July 26 2009, 10:56

Quote (Inkanta @ July 26 2009, 15:24)
Regarding profanity in posts and reference to illegal transactions....as per the forum guidelines, such posts are subject to removal. The guidelines phrase it as posts that are "excessively profane" and I suppose that is open to interpretation. One f-word? Five? No f-words but something dreadfully graphic? But illegal transactions really doesn't need to be operationally defined, so please be mindful of such things.

Yeah yeah I know...
my thoughts were, that the only way businesses behaved properly was if they were attacked on their income, I can see now that my suggestions is not in line with the intentions with this forum and I will shut my stinkin trap about it.......
point taken and understood    :)


regarding profanity......hmmm...that's a hard one..
I don't write to be a smartass, I actually write the way I think and talk
and it's always a thin line between getting my opinion out so clearly as possible and not upset the faint of heart while doing so.
I'll try to limit my use of the fucking f-words but I can' remove them entirely because I'm not Mother Theresa nor Gandhi...  :cool:
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wiga Offline




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Posted: July 26 2009, 13:58

As far as I am concerned these goods are never going to materialise - all those involved who have ordered goods which have not arrived or have arrived damaged should be asking for their money back and costs i.e. at least £100 - this should be in the form of an Invoice raised agianst the supplier who took their money in the first place. If this is not repaid within 30 days a further letter should follow asking for settlement within 3 working days on threat of a High Court Writ or a Winding Up petition. Should this fail then a solicitor should be instructed to nip round to the local court to serve this and freeze the account of whoever - a judge will do this immediately if he has evidence in front of him that an undisputed invoice has not been settled on threat of winding up - they will have 7 days to pay and if they fail - good riddance. Next lot of "signed special editions" should be personally endorsed by Mike - with his assurance that the same pantomine does not re-occur - it is absolutely his responsibility that his supply chain operates in an ethical manner - he is ultimately responsible for the merchandising and distribution of all his product.

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HRFanUSA Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 08:21

I follow this thread daily because I too purchased a signed UE set. My first one arrived damaged because of poor packaging. Bandstores (with the great help from Korgscrew) sent a replacement (without the signed certificate, as it was fine.) The replacement box was immaculately shipped and arrived fine although the vinyl record included has fingerprints and scratches, which I didn't complain about because I can only assume ALL the pressings are second rate, for whatever reason. After reading Prisoner's strong comments (which I empathize with to some degree,) here's what I think (IMHO):

1. MO and Mercury/Universal genuinely wanted to create an "Ultimate" TB edition, with very good intentions. They felt confident that die-hard MO fans would quickly jump on the limited edition of 500 signed copies. Nothing wrong with that.

2. Manufacturing a 12 1/2" x 12 1/2" box to house all the "goodies" probably was a challenge but the final product looks sleek and attractive.

3. Opting to use Bandstores for distribution seemed like a good idea, until customers began receiving damaged boxes due to the very poor initial outer packaging for shipping.

4. Due, probably from some absent-minded line-worker at the Mercury plant, 50 or so UE signed boxes accidentally went to Amazon instead of Bandstores.

5. Mike can't just sign 50 new certificates as the all the 500 have been signed - putting Mercury (and Bandstores, through no fault of their own) in a major quandry. Meanwhile, customers are fuming, understandably!

6. Bandstores begins sending out well-packaged replacement UE's to customers who received damaged goods - "let's fix what we can at this point." They don't ask for the damaged sets to be returned as the manufacturing cost of the entire set is probably less than the shipping cost.

7. The LP Vinyl condition issues begin to surface on this forum in great abundance, creating more problems for Mercury, even for those who've received replacement UE sets.

8. Of course MO is aware of what's been going on! If I were in his shoes, I'd surely want to know what my fans - my supporters (the people that keep me in business,) are feeling! He's most likely furious over all the screw ups, after all, this is HIS product, and I truly believe he's a perfectionist based on all I read, (not to mention his music.)

9. Mercury/Universal (and MO) are most likely realizing that all these issues with his FIRST RERELEASE are going to have a tremendous, if not disasterous impact on the success of all future rereleases. (I'd be sick to my stomach at this point!;)

10. For those of you who haven't received your order yet, I'm confident you'll end up getting something much better than a signed certificate, as a consolation for waiting so long. If you're tired of waiting, cancel your order. (I personally wouldn't, and would wait to see how this all unfolds.)

11. I truly believe that Mercury/Universal will eventually do everything in their power to "make things right" but it does take time. I feel confident Mike is involved at this point as his reputation is on the line, and this is just the first album in the rerelease series!

I hope I've not offended anyone with my thoughts here, and I hope resolutions come quickly and that all these issues are resolved so we can all get back to what we love - listening to Mike's music...
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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 10:37

Quote (HRFanUSA @ July 27 2009, 09:21)
10. For those of you who haven't received your order yet, I'm confident you'll end up getting something much better than a signed certificate, as a consolation for waiting so long. If you're tired of waiting, cancel your order. (I personally wouldn't, and would wait to see how this all unfolds.)


Once I bought a LCD monitor here,had a lot of trouble regarding dead pixels,and finally I ended up with a cool LCD monitor which was more expensive than the original one I bought after an agreement between the store and myself.

I'm sure the wait will be worthwhile to everyone like myself who's waiting for their boxes at home!


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"But it's always the outsider, the black sheep, that becomes the blockbuster." - Mike Oldfield, 2014

"I remember feeling that I'd been judged unfairly and that I was going to prove them wrong." - Peter Davison, 2011
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wiga Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 10:50

Quote (HRFanUSA @ July 27 2009, 08:21)
For those of you who haven't received your order yet, I'm confident you'll end up getting something much better than a signed certificate, as a consolation for waiting so long. If you're tired of waiting, cancel your order. (I personally wouldn't, and would wait to see how this all unfolds.)

But there is no product - they have all gone. If there were any left these people would have got them by now.

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HRFanUSA Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 10:53

I agree Tati,
"Good things come to those who wait," - sounds so cliche, I know, but I do believe Mercury/Universal will fix things and eventually please everyone - after all, they are a business, and I'm sure they'd like to stay in business, regardless of what it takes to satisfy a few angry customers. The fact we're all voicing our feelings here - loudly - can truly make a difference, but - we all need to be civil about it and give them time to fix things. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes right now and I honestly believe they know that.
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HRFanUSA Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 11:01

Quote (wiga @ July 27 2009, 10:50)
Quote (HRFanUSA @ July 27 2009, 08:21)
For those of you who haven't received your order yet, I'm confident you'll end up getting something much better than a signed certificate, as a consolation for waiting so long. If you're tired of waiting, cancel your order. (I personally wouldn't, and would wait to see how this all unfolds.)

But there is no product - they have all gone. If there were any left these people would have got them by now.

Hi Wiga,

I believe there's plenty of product - lots of deluxe UE boxes without the certificates - like the replacement I received. I feel they're trying to find something more meaningful to offer those who ordered the signed editions and didn't get them, and that obviously involves MO. The only difference between the UE sets offered by Amazon and the "Signed" edition is the certificate. I feel sure you'll end up with something better than the rest of us fans that did receive our signed editions.

I know it's totally frustrating but please give these people time to come up with a solution...

I'm on your side in this totally unanticipated disaster...
Harry
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tubular_trekkie Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 11:27

Quote (HRFanUSA @ July 27 2009, 16:01)
Quote (wiga @ July 27 2009, 10:50)
Quote (HRFanUSA @ July 27 2009, 08:21)
For those of you who haven't received your order yet, I'm confident you'll end up getting something much better than a signed certificate, as a consolation for waiting so long. If you're tired of waiting, cancel your order. (I personally wouldn't, and would wait to see how this all unfolds.)

But there is no product - they have all gone. If there were any left these people would have got them by now.

Hi Wiga,

I believe there's plenty of product - lots of deluxe UE boxes without the certificates - like the replacement I received. I feel they're trying to find something more meaningful to offer those who ordered the signed editions and didn't get them, and that obviously involves MO. The only difference between the UE sets offered by Amazon and the "Signed" edition is the certificate. I feel sure you'll end up with something better than the rest of us fans that did receive our signed editions.

I know it's totally frustrating but please give these people time to come up with a solution...

I'm on your side in this totally unanticipated disaster...
Harry

I personally think that there aren't any more signed UEs available (probably because of the mix-up with Amazon, I expect) - but I could be wrong of course.  If there are still some held over by Mercury for some reason then why the delay in getting them to people?  And why not explain, properly, what has caused this delay?  All Bandstores seem to be doing is endlessly reiterating that they will be sent in the coming weeks, without ever giving a likely despatch date. Yes, they might be at the mercy of Universal/Mercury but why not be up front about what's really going on? Everyone concerned might be a bit more patient if we were kept properly informed about the situation (and that goes for the vinyl quality problems as well).  I don't necessarily expect 'instant' results but some detailed explanations, coupled with an apology and a SPECIFIC and DEFINITE promise of what they intend to do about the problems would go a long way in mollifying everyone affected.


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- from 'Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib' by the Princess Irulan
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wiga Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 11:56

The 'original' product does not exist. Mike and Universal have offered no explanation - they've had 2 months to do so. Mike could have intervened at any point. If they'd had my dosh all this time I'd want it back and compensation. Start again.

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starfish Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 16:51

Guys, seriously - I'm not sure how anyone can accuse MO himself of any wrongdoing. I mean, does he even know what's happenned?

Let's be honest here, the re-release of Tubular Bells was a pretty good success. Despite it having been re-released so many times (and indeed even given away as a free gift in a newspaper here in the UK), the album reached number thirteen in the charts, a phenomenal achievement.

I don't how many units an album needs to sell to reach number thirteen, but it must be in the tens of thousands, and that's just in the UK alone. When you factor in worldwide sales, I reckon the re-issue probably racked up oh, at least a hundred thousand.

So against all this, we have a very small (but vocal) minority, who have had problems with their sets. Compared to overall global sales, the people who've had problems with their TB re-issue must make up only a fraction of a percent of total sales.

Remember, us few complainers on this little forum are small potatoes compared to the cash Mercury are raking in over this.

Basically, the ONLY way the situation can be rectified is for Mike himself to sign a few extra copies. Not a problem if he lived in England, but considering he lives on the other side of the world, it's no surprise that it might take awhile for replacements to be signed.

And that, of course, is assuming he even KNOWS about the problem. I mean, do Mercury even care that 50-odd people out of a hundred thousand are unhappy? Is it that much of a priority for them?

Frustrating as it may seem, those still waiting for the signatures will just have to continue to wait, and send their complaints to the relevant people at Mercury. Either way, one of two things'll happen - either you'll get a signed copy in due course, or the order will go unfulfilled and your money returned.

But directing anger at MO himself is a bit harsh, I feel.
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Inkanta Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 18:12

Quote (HRFanUSA @ July 27 2009, 08:21)
I follow this thread daily because I too purchased a signed UE set. My first one arrived damaged because of poor packaging. Bandstores (with the great help from Korgscrew) sent a replacement (without the signed certificate, as it was fine.) The replacement box was immaculately shipped and arrived fine although the vinyl record included has fingerprints and scratches, which I didn't complain about because I can only assume ALL the pressings are second rate, for whatever reason. After reading Prisoner's strong comments (which I empathize with to some degree,) here's what I think (IMHO):

HRFanUSA, seems to me that you have articulated the dilemma very well and very logically. Thank you for that.


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HRFanUSA Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 19:24

Thanks Inkanta,

I get just as frustrated and angry as others on this forum over the Ultimate Edition problems but I try to have a little faith the people at Mercury are scrambling to find a solution that pleases everyone. Unfortunately, it will take time. As I stated, for those who don't want to wait, cancel your orders and get your money refunded, though I still believe if you're patient you'll end up with something more meaningful than the signed certificate the rest of got... and of course 450 of us will be jealous, lol!
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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: July 27 2009, 23:42

If there's one thing I won't do it is to ask for a refund,I'm sure that everything will turn out fine.

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"I remember feeling that I'd been judged unfairly and that I was going to prove them wrong." - Peter Davison, 2011
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tubular_trekkie Offline




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Posted: July 28 2009, 05:35

Quote (starfish @ July 27 2009, 21:51)
Guys, seriously - I'm not sure how anyone can accuse MO himself of any wrongdoing. I mean, does he even know what's happenned?

Let's be honest here, the re-release of Tubular Bells was a pretty good success. Despite it having been re-released so many times (and indeed even given away as a free gift in a newspaper here in the UK), the album reached number thirteen in the charts, a phenomenal achievement.

I don't how many units an album needs to sell to reach number thirteen, but it must be in the tens of thousands, and that's just in the UK alone. When you factor in worldwide sales, I reckon the re-issue probably racked up oh, at least a hundred thousand.

So against all this, we have a very small (but vocal) minority, who have had problems with their sets. Compared to overall global sales, the people who've had problems with their TB re-issue must make up only a fraction of a percent of total sales.

Remember, us few complainers on this little forum are small potatoes compared to the cash Mercury are raking in over this.

Basically, the ONLY way the situation can be rectified is for Mike himself to sign a few extra copies. Not a problem if he lived in England, but considering he lives on the other side of the world, it's no surprise that it might take awhile for replacements to be signed.

And that, of course, is assuming he even KNOWS about the problem. I mean, do Mercury even care that 50-odd people out of a hundred thousand are unhappy? Is it that much of a priority for them?

Frustrating as it may seem, those still waiting for the signatures will just have to continue to wait, and send their complaints to the relevant people at Mercury. Either way, one of two things'll happen - either you'll get a signed copy in due course, or the order will go unfulfilled and your money returned.

But directing anger at MO himself is a bit harsh, I feel.

Hmm. Yes and no, I think.

It certainly isn't Mike's fault or even his direct responsibility. I'd agree with you there.  I also wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't know about the problems.  I'm sure he's got better things to do with his time than constantly plough through various fan warblings on tubular.net!

What I will say though is that I think the problems do reflect badly on both his reputation and that of Universal/Mercury.  We may very well be only talking about a small number of customers, but that 'minority' is not such a drop in the ocean when we're considering the 500 signed and numbered limited edition sets.  Even 10 or 20 people out of this number is a significant amount and the problems directly relate to the 'specialness' and 'collectability' (as it were) of this limited edition.  Glossing over this and concentrating on how many thousands of unsigned sets have been sold - or even other versions of the release - is missing the point IMO.

Universal/Mercury NEED to get this right and hopefully show some contrition for such unacceptable problems.  As I have pointed out in my letter of complaint: this is an expensive set marketed at the serious fan/collector, I think we have every right to expect a premium quality product and a premium quality service.

If Universal/Mercury can't or won't sort things out (perhaps because of the nonplussed attitude you imply), it doesn't bode well for any future releases aimed at the hard-core fan base, does it?


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Dirk Star Offline




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Posted: July 28 2009, 07:43

I think that just about sums it up perfectly tubular trekkie.Reading through this thread for instance I don`t think anyone who ordered one of the box-sets has recieved their copy in perfect condition.Even if in the majority of those cases we`re just talking about the quality/state of the vinyl there.I mean what the hell have they been doing with those things?Games of Tubular Frizbee round the warehouse perhaps??..As you say if we`re talking about the "hard-core" fanbase here,and Universal are planning anymore vinyl editions of Mike`s back catalogue.Then it stands to reason imo that whatever they decide to do now as way of recompense.Then people are still going to be massively put-off from purchasing such items.

Mind you what all this debate and resentment over the "problems" with the box-set has done.Is to draw attention away from the fact that some of the actual feedback for the release up on  Amazon UK for instance..Is well..Pretty much "mixed" to say the least.(almost a third of the people who "reviewed" it on there gave it 1 star)
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Reena Offline




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Posted: July 28 2009, 08:20

Well, perhaps the right conclusions have been drawn up to some extent by some of the members here, but I feel that one important issue remains here. MO isn't responsible for any of this, as far as I'm concerned.

Up until now every effort from either Bandstores/CID or even Mercury/Universal ( although I haven't read any official comment on their behalf anywhere, as far as I know ) did not wipe away much of the issues that our complaints are all about....

We're almost in August now, and as far as I'm concerned it is ridiculous that it is taking the companies involved so long to solve this.

As I badly want a Signed Copy ( in good condition, mind you ) I will persist here, but let's be honest : it is quite unbelievable that this is still lingering on....

For your info :
Yesterday I had a formal reaction from Universal at my formal complaint which I sent by email, as maybe you've read here in this thread...

It was read and sent by someone at Universal in London to the Universal Headquarters in Holland, where they stated that Bandstores was completely unknown to Universal Music in The Netherlands, and therefore Bandstores does not not receive any stock from them... The advised me to get in touch with Bandstores....

Tssssk, quite a surprise....

So I answered that it might be wise to forward my complaint to someone at Universal UK who is responsible for stockdelivery to their suppliers ( in this case Bandstores / CID ).... And now I am waiting once again.

Only thing that it has shown me up to now is that those people ( not in London, and not in the city of Baarn, The Netherlands, which is by the way just about 10 km's away from where I live, LoL ) not even bother to find out where the problem might lie. No, they just want to get rid of me asap....

Seems to me that no one wants to take responsibility here, and that is very disappointing, to say the least.
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tubular_trekkie Offline




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Posted: July 28 2009, 09:36

Quote (Reena @ July 28 2009, 13:20)
Well, perhaps the right conclusions have been drawn up to some extent by some of the members here, but I feel that one important issue remains here. MO isn't responsible for any of this, as far as I'm concerned.

Up until now every effort from either Bandstores/CID or even Mercury/Universal ( although I haven't read any official comment on their behalf anywhere, as far as I know ) did not wipe away much of the issues that our complaints are all about....

We're almost in August now, and as far as I'm concerned it is ridiculous that it is taking the companies involved so long to solve this.

As I badly want a Signed Copy ( in good condition, mind you ) I will persist here, but let's be honest : it is quite unbelievable that this is still lingering on....

For your info :
Yesterday I had a formal reaction from Universal at my formal complaint which I sent by email, as maybe you've read here in this thread...

It was read and sent by someone at Universal in London to the Universal Headquarters in Holland, where they stated that Bandstores was completely unknown to Universal Music in The Netherlands, and therefore Bandstores does not not receive any stock from them... The advised me to get in touch with Bandstores....

Tssssk, quite a surprise....

So I answered that it might be wise to forward my complaint to someone at Universal UK who is responsible for stockdelivery to their suppliers ( in this case Bandstores / CID ).... And now I am waiting once again.

Only thing that it has shown me up to now is that those people ( not in London, and not in the city of Baarn, The Netherlands, which is by the way just about 10 km's away from where I live, LoL ) not even bother to find out where the problem might lie. No, they just want to get rid of me asap....

Seems to me that no one wants to take responsibility here, and that is very disappointing, to say the least.

Oh dear. That is bad news. :( I don't like the sound of all this 'passing the buck'. I suppose it's always concerning when there never seems to be a clear agency one can appeal to; there's too many layers here for my liking. Is it Bandstores? No, it's Completely Independent Distribution. But no, it's not, it's Bravado. But no, wait a minute, it's Mercury Records, who are a subsidiary of Universal...
For God's sake can't somebody just take responsibility!  

BTW, if anyone wants to send a letter by snail mail (as I've done) to Mercury Records in London, drop me a PM and I'll give you the address. (I'm not sure about the wisdom of posting it here on a public forum(?))


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- from 'Collected Sayings of Muad'Dib' by the Princess Irulan
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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: July 28 2009, 10:47

The lack of transparency is killing me...we're not fools at all and we wanna know what is really happening,after almost 2 months since its release.It's taking too long for a decent solution for this case,IMO.

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wiga Offline




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Posted: July 29 2009, 03:29

Quote (HRFanUSA @ July 27 2009, 10:53)
"Good things come to those who wait,"

:laugh:

How about "Five Years" -(Bowie)- would make a good anthem
on this thread.

Altogether now - top of your lungs:

"We've got five years stuck on my eyes
Five Years what a surprise
We've got five years, my brain hurts a lot
Five Years thats all we've got..."


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