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Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: July 23 2003, 14:25 Hmm - time I got slated again I guess   Firstly, let me say that Amarok is a good Mike Oldfield album. It is not great but it is not shite either. On the plus side, the opening grabs you by the throat and refuses to let go for the best part of ten minutes as theme after theme is introduced here. The unashamed references to Ommadawn are fabulous; the African sections truly rock. There are some wonderful themes - the Spanish guitar flamenco and more between 22.12 and 25.08 and the African drums/plucked guitar theme leading into a tasty melody, Tubular Bells and guitar solo between 51.04 and 54.25 are pure genius (sorry guys, I know you have names for all these parts but I go by what it says on the sleeve and I don't know about yours, but my sleeve doesn't give much away, I can barely read it and I really can't be arsed to squint ). In fact, I would have been perfectly happy for the album to end at 54.25, because what comes after that totally ruins the whole listening experience for me. Yes, I know I've mentioned this before, but in a debate specifically about Amarok as a whole, it is worthy of note again that I hate the inclusion of Janet Brown and the ensuing nonsense. Other less fervent gripes I have include the lack of indexing on the album. It would be nice occasionally, to be able to listen to ones favourite parts without either having to endure the whole album, or committing to memory the times where they are on the CD; it's messy. Furthermore, whereas I agree that Mike must have worked very hard at putting the whole thing together, some transitions between themes are either too shoddy, haphazard or (to quote Korgscrew) crazy for my liking. Please note - I said for my liking; everyone is entitled to an opinion and that is mine. As a whole, it doesn't hang together particularly well - too many ideas for what is obviously intended to be one track. I can cope with weird - I can't cope with silly or stupid when I believe I am buying a serious album by a serious artist. Teeth brushing, glasses of water, telephone rings and spontaneous shouts of 'happy' simply don't float my boat - their inclusion may be clever, but they do nothing for me and they spoil what could have been a great album rather than a good one. So, that's it really. I can relate to some of bugular tell's thoughts and comments about Amarok; tonight is the first time in over 12 months that I've blown the dust off of the CD case and engaged my ears with it's contents (as a result of this debate). I'm glad I did - it will probably stay off the shelf now for a few days and get listened too up until 54.25 and admired in parts before taking another year long vacation filed between Earth Moving and Heaven's Open! -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

EpesiK Unregistered Posted: July 29 2003, 17:21 Amarok is simply the definition of truly outstanding musicianship caught on a piece of plastic. It is magnificent craft, the music came straight f-r-o-m the heart and goes straight i-n-t-o the heart...the cheekiness, the detail, the amazing sounds, the imagination, the energy, the artistry, there is not a hint of pretention (well, depends on who you ask...but who cares 'bout 'em pop critics anyway? ;-P). It is so independent...it doesn't care about anything else, it just is what it wants to be, what it has to be, and it sends a big ha-happy tongue-in-cheek F*CK YOU to everyone who disses it :-) That's why I love it. It has this musical humour that only true musicians are capable of expressing. It's on a higher level than just being Weird Al kinda funny (I was going to write Adam Sandler, but I realized he's about as funny as poop on your breakfast cereal on a rainy day). Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Aug. 01 2003, 13:24 Perhaps some people ether love Amarok with all the details and silliness, and others dismiss these things as being stupid. I think this is, definitely, a matter of personality. I, personally, love everything Amarok. Janet Brown, "ha-ha-ha-happy", the noises, the crashing glass, everything. For me, Amarok is not only a musical experience. It's a psychological experience, in some degree. The "Sondela" chants aren't just pretty, they're disturbing and moving. And the Thatcher speech, and all the goofy stuff going on improve this feeling. It's like a trip into Oldfield's twisted world. Other people just don't like it, and it's not 'cause they don't like Oldfield, or have bad taste. It's all personality. I, myself, enjoy the "one song" format. Of course I'm a Prog Rock sucker myself, so this helps. But I memorised the entire Amarok in a matter of two or three weeks. I can hum it from start to end at any moment, and I never listen to it without listening for the one complete hour. Well, I am a pretentious snob, so this helps me enjoy Amarok. But then, if I wasn't, I would probably love it too. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Manny Group: Members Posts: 48 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Aug. 01 2003, 16:41 Well, this album wasn't good on me the first time I listened to it.  Then I started to like it, and now, I would not take away a single bit of it. As someone said before it's full of feelings. So odd, so strange and yet so good. Not my favorite one but among the first ones. Back to top

SCprogfan Unregistered Posted: Aug. 06 2003, 14:17 I now think that Amarok is a brilliant album.  It was definitely a hard listen for me at first, but now I love it.  One of the things that I especially like about it is that it is amazing from a recording standpoint.  It really is one of the best engineered recordings I have ever heard. Back to top

Afgyhi Group: Members Posts: 73 Joined: May 2003 Posted: Aug. 07 2003, 11:43 Amarok is great. It seems that I alway keep hearing new stuff everytime I listen to it, though I've heard it many, MANY times!! Its great!!! -------------- Crises! Crises!! Back to top

kmb63 Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: June 2003 Posted: Aug. 08 2003, 01:05 Quote (T4 @ July 23 2003, 14:25) Other less fervent gripes I have include the lack of indexing on the album. It would be nice occasionally, to be able to listen to ones favourite parts without either having to endure the whole album, or committing to memory the times where they are on the CD; it's messy. Hi... This is my first post here on this board, although I've been lurking for a while and enjoying the reading. Amarok is definitely up there in my top 3 MO favs, but I agree with T4's comment and recently finally did something about it. I used EAC to rip a WAV of Amarok and then used EAC's sound editor to "walk" through the entire piece and establish index markers at all the spots I wanted as tracks. With all these time indexes set, I then wrote up a CD burning CUE sheet and, using CDRWin, burned the whole shebang back to CDR. Now I have a duplicate of Amarok that plays straight through without breaks like the original but also has 38 tracks that I can jump to with my CD player's next and previous buttons, so I can get to certain choice moments quickly when I feel the urge. Although my ideas of what make good track points in Amarok might not be your's, I'd be glad to post the CUE sheet I made (CUE sheets are just text files) if anyone is interested in using it. You can grab a copy of EAC (Exact Audio Copy) to rip your own copy of Amarok to your hard drive (EAC is freeware), and a copy of CDRWin at www.goldenhawk.com to burn using the CUE sheet. CDRWin costs (worth it in my estimation) but you can use it in demo mode (burns at 1X only, but what the heck - its a one-shot). There might be some other CD burning software that does CUE sheets but I'm not familiar with any of them. -------------- Ken "The Milky Way's a fine sight to see..." Back to top

iancampbell79 Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: April 2002 Posted: Aug. 08 2003, 05:20 There is a website which has done this already, basing the tracks around the inside artwork of the album.  You can find the cuesheet at: http://www.amadian.net/media6.htm Back to top

kmb63 Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: June 2003 Posted: Aug. 08 2003, 12:24 Well I'll be! I had no idea someone had done this already. Hadn't seen it mentioned on the forum anywhere. I just checked out their CUE sheet. They definitely have more tracks than I put in but I noticed that a lot of the time indexes are the same. Thanks for the info. -------------- Ken "The Milky Way's a fine sight to see..." Back to top

awaken Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: Aug. 2003 Posted: Aug. 10 2003, 15:29 My first post here too. I've been listening to MO since I heard 'Mike Oldfield's Single' on the radio and bought the original TB all those years ago. I've been having a phase of listening to a lot of MO lately and beginning to fully appreciate his genius - at least, when he creates long-form pieces and not songs. Amorak took me a while to get into because at first it didn't seem to hang together at all. Now I think it could be his best work - although there's a few other candidates for that title especially 'Ommadawn'. However, I wish the Thatcher speech wasn't there. The album reaches an incredible finale and I'd love to hear the music in the last five minutes or so without the speech. I don't suppose anyone has managed to produce a mix that takes out 'Thatcher' ... have they? If anyone knows of such a mix could you let me know where to find it? Thanks, Awaken Back to top

iancampbell79 Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: April 2002 Posted: Aug. 11 2003, 07:20 A mix without the voice would be interesteing to hear,  I have also thought at times that the Thatcher voice spoils things.   Perhaps it's just that a Thatcher impression dates the whole thing, whereas the voice of the MC on TB never seems to. BTW, was there a reason for the voice being Margaret Thatchers? Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Aug. 11 2003, 10:24 Quote (iancampbell79 @ Aug. 11 2003, 13:20) BTW, was there a reason for the voice being Margaret Thatcher's? Yes, there is one: satire. And also the speech itself being somewhat connected to the big anti-Virgin joke that Amarok is all about. P.S. Ian & Awaken: I perfectly understand u both for not liking the Thatcher speech. It's a very English thing... maybe not even people who are 100% English can appreciate its very English (British) humour. I myself find it funny just for the way it's done (voice, accent, etc.)... and IMHO it makes the whole thing just as 'dated' as old Spitting Image episodes, or old Benny Hill silent comedies, that still make me laugh now. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: Aug. 11 2003, 10:49 Thank you iancampbell79 and awaken - in 18 months as  a member of these boards, you are the first two members to agree with me about Thatcher (Janet Brown) and the Amarok finale. I have mentioned this on other posts before now and as far as I'm aware, everyone who has replied up until now, rave about it's humour and satire (?) - ironic then (excuse the pun) that this 'satire' and other minor idiosyncrasies prevalent from time to time during Amarok, detract from it's genius - it could've been Mike's best album after all! Ugo, I disagree that it's funny. I am British (English to be precise) through and through and using a poor imitation of Thatcher's voice to 'satarise' the end of Mike's relationship with Virgin and Branson is not funny. It would have been far better had Mike delivered a poorer album to end the relationship (thus truly having the last laugh and fulfilling his contract), saving the best ideas from Amarok to deliver a masterpiece for WEA. I like that you agree that it dates the piece though - I have mentioned this as another gripe in another post so we DO agree on something! It's a shame it is dated in this fashion as I believe that for the most part, Mike's music is timeless. How could Mike deliver a poor album I hear you cry? Yes, compared to many, Mike's music could never be described as poor. Having said that, he could've brought the release of 'Voyager' forward by 6 years    Apologies to any big fans of 'Voyager' out there; to me it sounds like he's simply going through the motions and not stretching the boundaries like I know he can - music by numbers if you like! Anyway, enough from me - nice to see that open and honest debate is alive and well; great to see such a mix of opinions and thoughts on these boards. Cheers, T4   -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: Aug. 11 2003, 11:22 Of course. How could I forget?! There was Heaven's Open in 1991! Not the best of Mike's albums I must confess. Perhaps he really did have the last laugh   Quickly, T4 builds the barricades outside his home to protect himself from the forthcoming barrage of abuse  He nervously awaits the floodgates to open.......eeeek!   -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

awaken Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: Aug. 2003 Posted: Aug. 11 2003, 12:03 Well, the Thatcher thing ... I'm English too, so I do understand how the impression could have been intended to be satirical. Perhaps it just doesn't work? With me it doesn't help that I loathed Thatcher and all her works, and that I find her voice extremely irritating. For a long time I stopped Amorak just before the 'endings' speech, but the more I play it the more I love the final five minutes of music. Which makes that voice even more irritating ... oh well. I remember buying Amorak with trepidation, having read Mike was disenchanted with Virgin and I'm sure I read (but couldn't quote a source now) that he'd handed in a poor album just to meet his contractual obligation. That said, and as has been pointed out previously, Amorak is so clever and has so many layers he couldn't have dashed it off on a weekend! It's certainly challenging and, as I said, it took me a while to fully understand it. It's been in my head all day today (even though I played the original Bells last night) and I can't wait to get home to play it again! By the way, Heaven's Open is the only MO album I've not heard at all. As I suggested before, I much prefer his longer stuff (when he's in that mode, I think he's one of the greatest composers that has ever lived). Back to top

iancampbell79 Group: Members Posts: 83 Joined: April 2002 Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 05:40 I too am British (Scottish) but can't help finding the voice irritating. I consider Amarok as Mike's greatest album.  It's not the fact that there is a speech at that point in the album, or the content of the speech that causes the (mild) irritation, it's just the voice itself. Back to top

SCprogfan Unregistered Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 12:38 The Thatcher voice never bothered me, I just find it to be a bit silly.  As an American, I'm sure I will not "get" all British humor, but on Public Television here we have some great BBC shows.  My personal all-time favorite:  Keeping Up Appearances.   Back to top

Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 13:07 Hey SCprogfan, you have perhaps commenced a period of self-exploration and analysis within me so strong that I may not be able to sleep this evening. Your reference to 'Keeping Up Appearences' has allowed my mind to run riot (although how we got there in an Amarok debate I find both amusing and worrying! ). You see, perhaps I have a deep-routed fear of strong-willed, bossy women? Hence my hatred of Thatcher's voice and Hyacinth Bucket (a la forementioned TV sitcom). I need a shrink!   When and where did this all start.....oh dear!!   Only joking - now is that satire, wit or sarcasm? Or is the line so vague between them that we will all interpret the same thing differently?! Rhetorical question; I think I know the answer to that   By the way, interesting name SCprogfan - Spock's Beard, Dream Theater, Flower Kings, Porcupine Tree....by any chance? Cheers, T4 -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

Mike Chadwick Group: Members Posts: 231 Joined: May 2003 Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 13:13 SONDELA,SONDELA,SONDELA.................happy??? -------------- kik-eze kik-eze Back to top

Mike Chadwick Group: Members Posts: 231 Joined: May 2003 Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 13:16 MARGARET'S TAHCHER voice is just a joke...well, whole album is not all serious - i mean, all that samples and funny sounds... you can love it or hate it - but it is kind of a joke that ment to irritate R.BRANSON....A masterpiece joke!!! Cheer up!! -------------- kik-eze kik-eze Back to top

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