Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Pages: (4) < 1 [2] 3 4 >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Topic: Tubular Bells 2003 reviews at mikeoldfield.org< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
maria Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 928
Joined: July 2002
Posted: May 01 2003, 16:15

after listening to the samples and so on and reading the reviews i have to say that on one hand i feel a bit... put off, but on the other hand it doesn't surprise me how (i guess)  it's going to sound. it's not possible to redo something, after such a long time and after have lived so many personal changes, leaving it the same it was but "cleaner"... that "cleaner" could be a bunch of details swept off and the same quantity added, i'm afraid what we are going to listen is the same spine with new flesh...
well... i think i'm prepared... :/

but i feel happy to think there's something more... after tb2003 it will be time to welcome 'the tube world' and i wonder about the music on it... there's nothing yet about this, isn't it?


--------------
...morning and evening i'm flying, i'm dreaming...
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
christopher Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 270
Joined: Nov. 1999
Posted: May 01 2003, 19:26

I do feel that everyone is taking this re-recording just a little too serious!  Mike had to have someone who isn't dated doing the MCing... John Cleese has Universal appeal and a sustained career because of Python and Fawlty Towers and countless other credits.  Honestly I would have chosen someone like John Cleese or even Patrick Stewart, but definetly NOT William Shatner - the music alone would have to pause just to catch up with his choppy dialect! :p  

Maybe this is more like Tubular Bells 2 than the original - and for me I say great job, Thank you, this is the way it can sound good to my ears! :)  The original I couldn't stand to hear and I bought TB and TB2 at the same time.  I still have trouble listening to the original - I prefer all the LIVE bootleg versions of TB with the high-voltage drums and powerful 80's guitars - excellent.  ACtually my favourite album version of TB is the Orchestral - because it shows the beauty that is in every musical note of TB.  The original only showed what lack of time and forgetting to tune the guitar sounds like.  And I developed these opinions long ago back in 1992.

For those who were around for the 1973 release - this may come as a waste of time and bad sounding re-recording.  This is understandable!  When you've grown up listening to something a certain way it is hard to except a slightly different interpretation.  (ie. when I heard to different versions of Billy Joels 'Lullaby' song - I didn't like the female vocal version - I compared the two and had to learn to except each version as seperate).

FOr me this will be the way TB should sound - in my opinion.  Bright, full of life, and with some good sound quality - tuned guitars - and yes with Dr.Click (in time).  

TIC TOC TIC TOC TIC TOC - LOL :p

Christopher
Back to top
Profile PM 
MusicallyInspired Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 1445
Joined: June 2001
Posted: May 01 2003, 22:57

I think we stand in the same opinion, christopher. My thoughts exactly. I even wanted Patrick Stewart :). Funny...did Mike even go by that poll? They put it up and Mike himself was the top of the list then it was Patrick Stewart in second and John Cleese was like in 6th-8th or around there. Later others like David Bowie surpassed Patrick Stewart....but John Cleese was never in first. Why was that poll even created??

--------------
BrandonBlume.com
"The beauty in life is in the embracing of the variety of things. If all the world was blue there would be no colour blue."
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
chris@mikeoldfield.org
Unregistered





Posted: May 02 2003, 04:30

Quote (TOBY @ May 01 2003, 13:29)
I think he meant Alan Rickman who did the MCing on TB2.

Oops - yes, don't know where Rick Wakeman came from!  :)
Back to top
chris@mikeoldfield.org
Unregistered





Posted: May 02 2003, 04:36

Quote (christopher @ May 01 2003, 19:26)
Maybe this is more like Tubular Bells 2 than the original

I wouldn't say that. Don't forget that this is Tubular Bells, just re-recorded!
Back to top
Sentinel101 Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 44
Joined: Mar. 2000
Posted: May 02 2003, 06:26

The reviews sound very disappointed (for the official fan club) and confirm my opinion that this is just like one of those many bad movie remakes.

I really see analogies to Hitchcock's Psycho where Gus Van Sant made an almost frame-by-frame remake. It looked like the original with colours and had good actors. But it left me with the feeling: why do a remake for a perfect piece of art ? I just didn't care for it.

Because my Oldfield addiction began with TB2 I don't love TB like Amarok or TSODE. But its unique raw sound surprised and impressed me very much, I liked the orchestral version even more. But the argument for this remake is somewhat incomprehensible: cleaner sound ? Seems like the innocent charm of the original is lost.

I really hope that Mike will deliver something which someone on this list called "epic". And please Mike: Tubular Bells - R.I.P. now ! :/
Back to top
Profile PM 
christopher Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 270
Joined: Nov. 1999
Posted: May 02 2003, 13:12

A thought occured to me this morning... isn't it plausible that Mike Oldfield wanted Tubular Bells to sound happy and free, but instead, since he was a troubled kid, it came out sounding angry and dark!?  

You know sometimes, and I'm sure many of us can relate to this, that sometimes the hindsight is more of an accurate depiction of colour,light, and texture than the foresight.  

Christopher
Back to top
Profile PM 
TOBY Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 1562
Joined: May 2002
Posted: May 02 2003, 14:33

Mike's troubled state of mind during the composition and recording of TB undoubtably contributed to the darker moments of the album. If you read the excelent making of TB book, a must read for any fan regrdless of whether or not you like the album, Mike himself states that one of the joy's of TB is the broad range of emotions captured by the composition and performance. Personaly I've never regarded TB as being particularly angry or dark certainaly not to the degree Ommadawn is. Parts of TB undoubtably contain a degree of agression but mostly it's just wonderfully atmospheric taking in a broad range of moods, most of it's pretty free sounding already.

It's for all these reasons I'm still perplexed that he's gone ahead and rerecorded it, what are we to expect next a happier version of Ommadwn???? It's all missing the point I would say.
Back to top
Profile PM 
oblique Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 411
Joined: Mar. 2005
Posted: May 02 2003, 14:41

This morning I was listening to the Katowice concert from the Then & Now tour and I couldn't help but noticing that when he played Summit Day and missed a few notes (no, a lot of notes) he became angry and revenged himself in the end by playing this beautiful-sounding guitar, most high notes.....

It was then that I realised that all pieces I like best were written when Mike had either a troubled mind (Tubular Bells '73), was frustrated (Ommadawn) or angry (Amarok).

Reading these reviews it seems to me that the re-recording sounds polished, i.e. no rough edges. Needless to say he's happy now.

Sorry but it seems to me we can only expect Mike to write great music in the future as soon as he gets unhappy.


--------------
"While we are alive we should sit among colored lights and taste good wines, and discuss our adventures in far places; when we are dead, the opportunity is past." - Jack Vance
Back to top
Profile PM 
Man_in_the_Rain Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 36
Joined: Aug. 2000
Posted: May 02 2003, 14:54

The Original Tubular Bells has a warm, atmospheric, emotional sound, whether or not the guitars were in tune!

It would be nice to hear it as Mike would have intended, but from reading these reviews and the samples, I fear that TB2003 will be a digital representation of the original. Of what I've heard so far, it sounds like "Tres Lunas Bells." Alright, I must admit that I like Tres Lunas. It's just not of the same class as TB1973 with all it's breathing noises and out of tune instruments.

When Chris Dewey says "Let's face it, very few people would listen to this and think it is new," I feel better, though. I should hope it musically sounds like the old one! Hopefully, this new album will get older listeners to re-discover TB, and get younger listeners to newly discover TB.

I really want this new TB to be just as satisfying as the original. I think we all do.
Back to top
Profile PM 
TOBY Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 1562
Joined: May 2002
Posted: May 02 2003, 15:56

Yeah I've got that Katowice performance, I think Mike must have been having a bad day, certainly during a few tracks. It wasn't all like that though, his performance of Summit Day on that VH1 show was just mind blowing from beginning to end, he quite often improvised that end guitar solo, it makes the hairs on your neck stand on end its so good.

There was an interview with Mike (round about TB2 I think) where it was put to him that unhappy childhoods quite often lead up to making great artists and he agreed but rejected the notion that happy lives don't yeald great art. It's an interesting thought that almost all the truely great artists were tortured souls in some way, but there are exceptions. Leonardo Di Vinci lead a highly focused yet reletively stable existance.

It is an interesting observation that one might say Mike's reletively stable happy life now is not fuelling the same sort of emotionaly charged work that has characterised certain parts of his career. His work now is almost all escapist in atmosphere rather than the confrontational escapism that defined works like TB, Ommadawn and Amarok.
Back to top
Profile PM 
maria Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 928
Joined: July 2002
Posted: May 02 2003, 16:38

the charm in tubular bells, its depth and sharpened landscape, is not only the music itself, but something more that is melt with the score... something related to what one feels from there... even regarding the so mentioned "imperfections" the result's got perfection in its own. it has been proved since it has gone becoming a classic along these thiry years, being appreciated by different kind of musicians and listeners for many different reasons, artistical, technical and human... (however, i respect his reasons to record it again... being the "creature's father", it's his right indeed and if he had always wished to make what he's made now, that's good for his own satisfaction).

i do think his music was "different" in his troubled age, that's why i've been afraid about the piltdown man's bit i.e. it seems to me hard difficult to redo that without noticing the pass of time and not cause his throat and guitar wouldn't resist no... but his mind wouldn't ask him to do it again... 
when i first listened to tubular bells, in the early eighties,i didn't need twice to know i liked that. then i felt identified with what i listened to, even without knowing almost anything about the author i knew there were strong feelings on it, and that is what makes it so special, the same that happens with ommadawn or amarok, strong feelings are what makes his music ALIVE, maybe it's just this what makes me feel a bit unwilling to this "polished tb".i feel some resistance to this step to a "clean and happy and in-tuned perfection"...
anyway, i can live with a "polished tubular bells":D  and i really wish tb2003 is a success for him and well... the original is always there, as a bottle of good strong red wine, covered with the dust of time, kept in a dark cellar containing the essence of the old bells' spirit...

now, i promise i'll listen to it with open mind and hope to be bounced from my chair
:)


--------------
...morning and evening i'm flying, i'm dreaming...
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
raven4x4x Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 1535
Joined: Jan. 2002
Posted: May 02 2003, 20:09

A few of you have mentioned the Katowice performance. Is there any site from which I can download this performance? I would very much like to listen to it.

--------------
Thank-you for helping us help you help us all.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Justin
Unregistered





Posted: May 02 2003, 21:21

When I read these most recent posts regarding the quality of Mike's music and his state of mind at the time, I was relieved that I wasn't alone in believing this. The almost violent emotional tensions revealed in the TB, Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn are essential to the critical success of these albums. As previous posts suggested, the best music is the product of how angry or scared Mike was at that moment. I too have feared that Mike's optimistic declarations in recent years have spawned sub-par efforts like Guitars, Millennium Bell, and Tres Lunas. Reading interviews on this man, it appears that he's finally at peace with everything, so now it's time for him to play and be a kid again. This return to youth is what troubles me most regarding the quality of his recent albums, as well as in his MusicVR project. Whether it be the few spoken lines in "Far Above the Clouds" to the infantile lyrics of "To Be Free", or even the lack of competition in MusicVR, this obsession with the child-like of qualities of naivetee, non-violence and retreating from responsibility is personally irksome. Why? Because the emotional highs and lows, the struggle to overcome adverse situations, and an acceptance of personal responsiblity makes for extremely moving music. There's nothing moving about being free , no worries, sipping pina coladas to stale reggae beats on the beach ("To Be Free"). Nor is there anything moving about floating in space while "chilling out" to some repetitive melody and ambivalent midi-saxophone sounds that wanders throught the tracks of Tres Lunas. Music VR is indeed a visual companion to its surrounding, a world devoid of conflict, battles between good and evil, and triumphant resolutions.  It's rather a sort of limbo where you press the buttons and see what happen. Hence it's BORING. The first TB in contrast was exciting. Because it was like listening to someone's self-exorcism, a very intense and unpredictable experience. What amazes everyone about TB was how young Mike was when he composed it, since it sounded extraordinarily mature. That's what mature musicians do: they weave emotional complexity with technical ability to create a piece with depth for the ears as well as the soul. Upon reading Mike's recent interviews, Mike's love and faith in technology seems to have totally supplanted his concern for thematic depth. In this new re-recording Mike appears to have been obsessed with refining the piece technically and in turn sacrificing the quality of tones and improvisation inherent in the first tubular bells. It reminds me of these precocious kids mastering an instrument at an early age. They first learn pieces from Bach and Czerny, which they soon play with technical perfection. When it's time to get acquainted with the late Romantics and early moderns (Debussy, Shoernberg, etc) they plateau, and usually have to wait until they grow up to successfully play these more soulful pieces. Another examples would be to compare Mozart's childhood compositions to his requiem.

My principal fear is that Mike Oldfield has lost emotional richness in his music. This has been the result of his having sorted out his psychological problems throughout his career. His technical talents have remained intact, even enhanced, but are now far divorced from from any emotional sophistication. Wanting to revamp his original TB recording because of the original's technical flaws says lots about where Mike's priorities currently lie. Feelings as diverse and extreme as expressed in the first TB are not quantifiable, which is why the original's use of organs, analogue instruments and limited tape recorders were a perfect means to express his state of mind. The newest Roland synthesizers and digital equipment are by their very nature antithetical to the irrational imprecision of emotions. Maybe Mike could do an album stricty with Moog synthesizers. In spite of Mike's denial that happiness prevents good music from being made, I often don't take his responses all too seriously. I've observed a pattern of denials when giving interviews, explaining away all criticism as unworthy to be considered. That's not a sign that he knows what he's doing more than its a symptom of his jettisoning his responsibility to work on his own flaws. In a way, I feel quite sorry for him.
Back to top
Blue Dolphin Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 1232
Joined: Nov. 1999
Posted: May 02 2003, 21:54

Quote
It was then that I realised that all pieces I like best were written when Mike had either a troubled mind (Tubular Bells '73), was frustrated (Ommadawn) or angry (Amarok).


Okeee.... let's make Warner end Mike's contract, demolish Mike's car, kidnap his cat, burn his guitars and lets see if Mike makes another masterpiece again... duh

Maybe it is true about Mike's having made his best music during his troubled years, but don't forget he did compose great songs too in his good years, like his early 80's albums and TSODE etc. And about Mike re-expericing his childhood is actually quite right. In the Heaven & Earth show Mike's behavior was reminding me of a child. Made me cause a big smile on my face. :)

I think he also can compose great music in his good times, it's just a matter of inspiration and the *magic* he has at that time.


--------------
-The mark of a good musician is to play one note and mean it-

Mike Oldfield - 1980
Back to top
Profile PM 
kris
Unregistered





Posted: May 02 2003, 23:16

I tend to agree that Mike's best era was during Amarok, TB2, and SODE.   I'd love to hear another "epic" album as well, but I can't really complain since we've had a new album from him almost every year, and the MVR project to boot, which in my opinion, is absolutely the best thing he's done in the past 10 years.   Even the album Tres Lunas is a masterpiece I think.

He constantly is trying new things, and even if the TB theme keeps showing up a little too often, I still love just about everything he comes up with.
Back to top
MusicallyInspired Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 1445
Joined: June 2001
Posted: May 02 2003, 23:19

I think the problem is that he's getting really into the 'spiritual' and 'meditative' aspect of it and *trying* to create atmospheres rather than letting them flow. Guitars and the albums after seem to be a result of this. I love them. But they aren't as good as TSODE. It's clear he's still a very good musician. He still comes up with awesome themes: Summit Day, Return To The Origin, and others. But...it's...I don't know how to describe it. It's like he's doing it for the atmosphere rather than for the atmosphere if you can understand me lol. He's focusing on trying to make these atmospheric themes and uses synth voxes all the time and that famous Oldfield cymbal and even resorts to computer perfection and sound to try to bring it about, rather than just making something and letting it flow out of him being swept along with the emotion.

....Maybe he's trying to be like Brian Eno making background tracks. Not really his field, if you ask me. I say he should give up that idea because it's just not him and it doesn't turn out too well, although it IS good. Tr3s Lunas is a very good album. But it's not that 'epic' like earlier albums, as I said before. I say he should go back to the likes of TSODE. That was when he was getting really good! But then Voyager.....but then TB3! (which actually sounds a little troubled and not happy by any means like other Warner albums)....but then Guitars...and TMB....and Tr3s Lunas...MusicVR.....ALL AWESOME! But not like TSODE or Amarok or TB2. It's because I think he's focusing too much on TRYING to create atmospheres. I don't think it works that way. You create beautiful atmospheres when you're emotional or troubled or happy etc. But when you're trying to create emotions from nothing.....doesn't come out good. A lot of ingenuity can probably sort of pull it off a little, but no where near as great as pieces made from flowing emotions.

Also, about TB coming back all the time, I think it's mostly due to the fact that he always wanted to perfect it since even Crises, probably (which was made for the 10th anniversary of TB). But could never do a straight re-recording and perfecting of it so he settled with things like making TB2 and even TB3 and maybe to some extent TMB, even though it's nothing really to do with TB some of the same feel might have been there since he hadn't settled it yet in his mind. But now that he has finally been able to re-record the original, I think he will give TB a rest.

My 2 cents...


--------------
BrandonBlume.com
"The beauty in life is in the embracing of the variety of things. If all the world was blue there would be no colour blue."
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
Sentinel101 Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 44
Joined: Mar. 2000
Posted: May 03 2003, 06:38

I also think that TSODE was his last creative outburst.

Voyager was (except for Mont St Michel) the first step into the "conceptual" direction: celtic music, yeah, sells well when it sounds like Enya.

After that TB3, also nice but melodically quite simple. FATC is loud but not as climatic as I wanted it to be. Too much repetition ....

Then Guitars which was the first album Mike had released just to show technical gimmicks with his Midi-triggered-by-Guitar thing. Some nice moments (Summit Day) but even more boring than Voyager.

The concept behind Millenium Bell was too obvious: bells combined with the millenium hystery => sells well. It has some nice moments but I didn't like direct link to historical events as dictated by the booklet. I wanted it to be more mysterious, more discoverable; I wanted to reflect my own pictures into the music. But everything was presented in small snacks, nothing really to think about.

I had high hopes for Tres Lunas as Mike seemed to revisit TSODE territory. The first thing that annoyed me was this stupid "Mike's Chill-Out album" sticker on the CD. Then I waited for this spine-chilling feeling I had when I first listened to TSODE .... but nothing happened ... nice melody repeated time after time after time with almost no variation (and no guitar), in short words: boring. This is the problem with Mike at this time: he simply makes boring music ! Nice to hear but not demanding in any way.

And the same might be happened to TB 2003. He polished the rough edges away with his technical abilities and sucked out the soul in this way. May be I'm too pessimistic ... hopefully I will be blown away by the new version. Go for it, Mike !  :)
Back to top
Profile PM 
maria Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 928
Joined: July 2002
Posted: May 03 2003, 07:15

Quote (Guest @ May 02 2003, 21:21)
Reading interviews on this man, it appears that he's finally at peace with everything, so now it's time for him to play and be a kid again. This return to youth is what troubles me most regarding the quality of his recent albums, as well as in his MusicVR project. Whether it be the few spoken lines in "Far Above the Clouds" to the infantile lyrics of "To Be Free", or even the lack of competition in MusicVR, this obsession with the child-like of qualities of naivetee, non-violence and retreating from responsibility is personally irksome...

There's nothing moving about being free , no worries, sipping pina coladas to stale reggae beats on the beach ("To Be Free"). Nor is there anything moving about floating in space while "chilling out" to some repetitive melody and ambivalent midi-saxophone sounds that wanders throught the tracks of Tres Lunas. Music VR is indeed a visual companion to its surrounding, a world devoid of conflict, battles between good and evil, and triumphant resolutions.  It's rather a sort of limbo where you press the buttons and see what happen. Hence it's BORING.


i have to say that, though i agree with a general line on your post, regarding what u say about his music since the early nineties, i don't think it could be called "a return to youth" in a kind'a pejorative way. moreover, a return to youth in his case would mean something pretty different to what one could expect from that expression, as it was said, his young years were very mature. it's true that from the moment in which he felt better with himself something changed in his music, it became "different", but this hasn't neccessarily always to lead to soulless music, it's just that it describes different moods... tsode has always been a big trip through the space if u ask me... there's pleasure and big emotion there (think about crystal clear i.e.). and there's also emotion in some bits of tubular bells ll, we've got it in 'blue saloon', 'altered state' or 'maya gold'.

regarding the lack of competition in mvr i think it's not bad, most the opposite and this is not a proper feature of childhood if u know what i mean, kids are by nature rather competitive... he's done something quite new around computer games, the visuals there provoque great pleasure, cause it's like he has been able to put in real/virtual stage what his music has always carried inside... mvr is a place full of beauty, built mainly to enjoy the flying sensation surrounded by music that doesn't lack feeling (listen to the owl's flight, or the trip to tai chi island with the firebeings, or the sprites section).indeed i find more feeling in mvr than in his other last works i.e. 'the millenium bell', in which i'd say he was thinking more about a final product for a particular date: the end of the millenium, than in his inner feelings (though, in a way, it's got some its moments, but more dedicated to the exterior than to his inside). mvr has got something inner again, his own images, his own symbols and places, fed with his music (though it's true that 'to be free' doesn't fit well with the mood of the rest of the work imho, but it's not new that lyrics have never been his most strong spot)

i've supported this new branch in his work cause it seems to me he's got there a fertile land to develope something that has always been in his music, his music has always been full of visuals, that is no new and if he mixed this with his roots, that is with his ability to make a guitar speak more than many voices, we could find something great again imho...

on the other hand it would have no much sense to ask him to come back completely to the origins, no one can do that... that is what i've criticized regarding tb2003, things go changing in every particular life and it's not possible to review something from the past without touching its essence... that's just why imho this re recording pretends something odd... that is to sweep aside all the details that were melt with the score, details that gave this masterpiece its particular character.

in my case, i don't criticize the fact that he works from scratch around other creative fields (he's an artist and if he needs to make his creativity grow in different lands, it means it is moving) it's the fact that he has wanted to filter with high modern techniques something old and good like tubular bells.

Musically Inspired, what u say about giving the bell a rest... when i watched the introduction video, i had the feeling that what is shown in the images (i may be wrong since i'm just trying to interpret the imaginery there) is a bell coming from the space to make a review trip along these thirty years, going along its/his different life's landscapes and at the end of it, when the bell reaches a calm place, that beautiful island, it goes up to the sky again, maybe he has made kind'a exorcism to make the bell get free from his old "ghosts" and now he'll let it rest to go on along new paths... well, at least this is my hope :)


--------------
...morning and evening i'm flying, i'm dreaming...
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
kris
Unregistered





Posted: May 03 2003, 16:29

Yep I totally agree that since TSODE, his albums have lacked the same inspiration and feeling that he was putting into his prior albums.  

I listened to "The Lake" from Discovery last night for the first time in several years.  Just in that one 10 minute track, there is more emotion than the past few albums combined!   What a great track.   His current stuff is great, but he once was better!

That said, it does tend to take a lot more effort and time to create a great, epic album like TSODE.
Back to top
75 replies since April 30 2003, 12:49 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Pages: (4) < 1 [2] 3 4 >






Forums | Links | Instruments | Discography | Tours | Articles | FAQ | Artwork | Wallpapers
Biography | Gallery | Videos | MIDI / Ringtones | Tabs | Lyrics | Books | Sitemap | Contact

Mike Oldfield Tubular.net
Mike Oldfield Tubular.net