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Topic: Tracks you feel ashamed to love< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Olivier Offline




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Posted: Nov. 04 2012, 11:54

Only Time Will Tell - "one finger-style" playing, but I think the secret sauce for me is I don't mind robotic music when the composer spent a lot of time on it. Cheap computer music like, say, in L+S, sounds awful to me, but I feel like he put a lot of effort into TSODE. Anyway I hate some parts of L+S and love TSODE, and feel ashamed because they are kind of share the same fundamentals. But again, not showing the same quality of craftsmanship in my opinion, feeling like Luke Oldfield or some other junior musician did L+S and Mike put his name on it.
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Holger Offline




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Posted: Nov. 04 2012, 12:09

I think the difference is that TSODE accomplishes what it sets out to do 99% of the time, while L+S has some problems in that regard. No need to feel ashamed liking either though, IMO. They may not be Ommadawn or Amarok, but then they aren't trying to be, you know?
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Jesse Offline




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Posted: Nov. 04 2012, 14:30

TSODE is just beautifull wether light and shade is not (all the way through) beautifull.easy :)

But i enjoyed some tunes on LS.
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GusFogle Offline




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Posted: Nov. 04 2012, 17:20

The only reason you'd feel shame about anything is other people. I'm not self-conscious enough to care what other people think about my musical tastes, so I'm not "ashamed" of anything I listen to. I see no reason for anyone to be ashamed about what they listen to. The quality of music is subjective anyway.
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bob the screamer Offline




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Posted: Nov. 04 2012, 17:28

Quote (GusFogle @ Nov. 04 2012, 23:20)
The only reason you'd feel shame about anything is other people. I'm not self-conscious enough to care what other people think about my musical tastes, so I'm not "ashamed" of anything I listen to. I see no reason for anyone to be ashamed about what they listen to. The quality of music is subjective anyway.


Very very well put, Gus!


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New free album out:

http://www.bobthescreamer.com/music/twinety-twine/
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Nov. 05 2012, 10:52

It's interesting, because Mike Oldfield never brought that feeling to me. I even enjoy Heaven's Open with a straight face without ever considering it a "guilty pleasure". I do have a few "guilty pleasures" of my own, but fortunately none of them belong to Mike Oldfield. The Spice Girls are a guilty pleasure. Family Man is music greatness.

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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Inkanta Offline




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Posted: Nov. 06 2012, 17:52

I like stuff on L + S...."Angelique" (even though the pronunciation of "Angelique" vacillates between a hard "g" and soft "g"),  "Our Father," and "Surfing." Guess, though, I don't feel particularly ashamed of it. I do, however, wince if I am parked in traffic, top down in the convertible, and "Pacha Mama" or the PM section of  "The Millennium Bell" comes on. It sounds like "Sexy Woman." We may know that it's actually the Inka temple-fortress overlooking Cuzco, but the person on the street doesn't. :D

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"No such thing as destiny; only choices exist." From:  Moongarden's "Solaris."
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Nov. 07 2012, 10:26

What you're trying to describe here Olivier is a creeping suspicion that you're been falling in love with music TSODE that was possible composed and produced with less love and care than you initially thought? That perhaps L+S has more in common with TSODE than you would like to think?

I don't know if I'm reading you right, but I have a related feeling when I listen to newer oldfield records (post Amarok) and thinking that it's not really that different from the old 70s/80s MO records that I know and love. It's the same chord sequences and the same guitar playing. Is it just production values that I love? I can sometimes  feel - not exactly guilty - but at least a little stupid when I think of that.
The way I hate the "ethnic" stuff that is all over TBII/TSODE while I don't mind (basically) the same thing all over Ommadawn and Incantations. There's just some small nuance that ruins it all for me and that makes me feel "picky".


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"There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste"
Mark E Smith
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bob the screamer Offline




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Posted: Nov. 07 2012, 11:24

Quote (larstangmark @ Nov. 07 2012, 16:26)
I don't know if I'm reading you right, but I have a related feeling when I listen to newer oldfield records (post Amarok) and thinking that it's not really that different from the old 70s/80s MO records that I know and love. It's the same chord sequences and the same guitar playing. Is it just production values that I love? I can sometimes  feel - not exactly guilty - but at least a little stupid when I think of that.
The way I hate the "ethnic" stuff that is all over TBII/TSODE while I don't mind (basically) the same thing all over Ommadawn and Incantations. There's just some small nuance that ruins it all for me and that makes me feel "picky".


I think newer are very very different from 70/80s. Yes, you can hear the same style, same chords sequences and guitar playing. The difference is the compositions. The early records are extremly much more complex, and very carefully crafted, thematic, building on previous ideas and filled with variations and small details. The newer ones have nothing of this (except for perhaps MotS). I think it is a world of difference. The style is similar - the compositions not.


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http://www.bobthescreamer.com/music/twinety-twine/
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Nov. 07 2012, 11:53

Quote (larstangmark @ Nov. 07 2012, 10:26)
The way I hate the "ethnic" stuff that is all over TBII/TSODE while I don't mind (basically) the same thing all over Ommadawn and Incantations. There's just some small nuance that ruins it all for me and that makes me feel "picky".

I think those nuances lie in intentions. Way back in his early career, Oldfield was doing that music basically because he damn wanted to, and in truth, not many other people were doing it. By the time the 90's rolled along, the "ethnic" stuff, as well as the "state-of-the-art" synthesizers and digital equipment, became a comfort zone for him. The innovation became the cliché, and therefore the need for actual effort fell drastically. For me, that's the difference.

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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Nov. 08 2012, 01:19

Nothing of Mike's ashames me but we all have our Corny faves.

Waterfalls by Macca comes to mind  :)
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Scatterplot Offline




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Posted: Nov. 13 2012, 01:45

I still listen to "No Dream" fairly regularly. Every listen now, however, brings out new flaws. Well, not so much flaws but bad decision making. It was pristinely recorded. But Mikes vocals......ok they were bad except when used as a backup/punctuation thing. I think he could have made some more money by selling it to someone else as it was a good love/erotic song. The backup vocals in some places.....the black chicks(samples?) singing "dream babe, dream babe!".......not so well thought out. But am I ashamed to love it? No. Er, maybe a little. I would not play it for a date(chick) if I were 25(I'm 51 now). But I still enjoy that diddy. I think it's ripe for a remake by someone.....

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We raise our voices in the night
Crying to heaven
And will our voices be heard
Or will they break Like the wind
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Nov. 19 2012, 17:15

I'd say that my affection towards most of Light + Shade, including "Romance" (which is IMHO one of the best versions ever of that piece), would put me in a rather bad light with most of the board members here. But I'm not ashamed at all to say that I love most of it.

@ Cam: well, I've got a number of soapy things that would really make me feel ashamed to list here. But most of them are not by Mike... :)


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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Nov. 20 2012, 00:10

Hey Ugo...Great to see you back  :)

I think most people feel Mike got lazy with L+S, but its actually not a bad album for first time listeners of Mikes work.

I give it a spin from time to time and don't mind it either and i really prefer your remix too.
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Nov. 20 2012, 08:17

Quote (Milamber @ Nov. 20 2012, 06:10)
Hey Ugo...Great to see you back  :)

I've been very busy with school and I still am. I find time to write here once every blue moon... or every blue night. :D

Regarding L+S, I know that many people here see that album as too simplistic and too electronic-based. IMHO there's nothing wrong with using machines as your main composing medium. you only have to let your mind not be dominated by the machines, and Mike's mind was certainly not, on L+S.


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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Dec. 01 2012, 10:19

Quote (Ugo @ Nov. 20 2012, 08:17)
Regarding L+S, I know that many people here see that album as too simplistic and too electronic-based. IMHO there's nothing wrong with using machines as your main composing medium.

I'm with you on that one. Maybe it's just my own egotistical need of self-affirmation speaking, since the computer is the sole "instrument" I play, but there's a lot of prejudice against electronic instruments perpetrated mostly by people who don't know how making art works.

It's one thing when a guy like Keith Jarrett denounces electronic instruments, because that's a conscious stylistic decision and he makes his own music. But there are those folks who have that extremely romantic, idealized vision of what making music is: that it comes from the "soul", that the musician is touched by the "muse" and that "inspiration" falls from the sky, and he "speaks" or "sings" through the instrument, and therefore the electronics break that. That's not how music works. The soul, the inspiration, the "muse" is inside the musician, and if it's there, it doesn't matter what tools he uses. The instrument is just an object; there's nothing magical or religious about it. What matters is the energy that runs through the instrument, and in that sense, an acoustic guitar and an iPhone are exactly the same thing.

In this point, I make an argument that's pretty much the opposite of Jarrett's: there is electricity all over us. Why not let it run also through the wires and the circuits and the microchips?

And, yes, my qualms with Light + Shade have entirely different reasons.


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Olivier Offline




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Posted: Dec. 01 2012, 10:40

I think the argument is that computer interfaces are too slow. Touch screens are probably going to improve that a lot. For now it's pretty easy to feel that you're losing one dimension of music listening to computer music vs say Keith Jarrett or Vangelis. It kind of works for some compositions I guess, although I find myself always pleased in a computer track when there is a direct human touch (like Kraftwerk saying some words). I still see computers more artful for composition than performance. But we shouldn't confuse computer music with electronic music. Lot of things wrong with computer music in my opinion, but nothing wrong with electronic music.
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Platinumpty Offline




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Posted: Feb. 08 2013, 08:48

I would recommend anyone skeptical about the emotional and compositional power of electronic music to listen to the following:

Dead Cities - Future Sound of London

Secondtoughestintheinfants - Underworld

In-sides - Orbital

True People - Detroit Techno

Flux Trax

(the latter two are compilations of largely excellent early Detroit Techno.

What I love about Detroit techno is the layering of micromelodies and the patterns they create. Everything seems to be melodic, even the drumbeats. There's a real feeling of human warmth here, even though many of the "musicians" may well have been just picking out the melodies with one finger to create the samples later repeated and layed.  

I feel that if you can hear it in your head and get it out though any means necessary, you're creating music.  Whether that makes you a musician or a composer, is another debate.
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Feb. 08 2013, 09:56

IMO the most interesting new music at the moment is minimal electronic music. Here are a few thing I have discovered recently:

Steinbruchel - Basis
(really minimal ambient, based on guitar samples)

Solar Fields - Unti We Meet the Sky
(semi-melodic miminal techno/electronica)

Sendai - Geotope
(harsh minimal techno, gritty and hypnotic)

Grischa Lichtenberger - And IV (Intertia)
(no idea what this sub-genre is called, more "advanced" rhythmic minimal techno)

It's does not express the same type of emotion that Mike Oldfield's classic albums do. It's a different world.


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"There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste"
Mark E Smith
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Olivier Offline




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Posted: Feb. 08 2013, 13:32

Quote (larstangmark @ Feb. 08 2013, 06:56)
IMO the most interesting new music at the moment is minimal electronic music.

Try Eliane Radigue... (Good luck.)

She is using an ARP 2500 synth and a lot of patience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnbGirPTgF0
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