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Sysiyo Group: Members Posts: 245 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 24 2005, 09:21 Quote (arron11196 @ Aug. 23 2005, 19:05) My main point is... why are we doing this? Why are we venting all of this frustration on a virtual message board about how crap something supposedly is going to be? Are we going to achieve anything by doing it? Perhaps someone could enlighten me. Because when we finally hear the album, we'll be pleasantly surprised because we expected it to be complete crap. Seriously though (not that the above wouldn't work, it does), as far as I've observed this happens every time an artist releases a new album, when the fans find out it isn't going to be on the style they most like the artist for but haven't yet heard the entire album. We (as in 'the fans' ) always hope and expect that the artist releases his greatest album as his next album, similar but even better to the album most dear to us (or, alternatively, like something we've never heard before but will automatically like). When it turns out the album isn't like that, people get disappointed. In the end, after we've had the new album in our hands for a little over a year, most people will probably agree it's at least a decent album, because (a) they can accept the album for what it is, not what they wanted it to be and (b) all the great expectations now rest on the next album. Which will be the greatest album ever, similar to his best works yet entirely unlike anything we've ever heard before. Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Aug. 25 2005, 12:45 I think you've hit on it there Sysiyo. Amen to that. -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Aug. 25 2005, 13:25 It also boils down to the fact that Mike has had a very, very diverse career, the quality of it all aside, its certainly been diverse. For that reason there are MO fans here on these message boards and all over the world who come at his music from completely different angles, thats why there is so much, sometimes heated, debate here. Reading through all the polls here and generally gauging the mood and tastes of everybody, my conclusion is that most fans LOVE the long involved complex instrumental stuff and LOVE Mike the hand played musician and not Mike the synth and drum box programmer. Thats not to say Mike should never do the latter or has no ability to do the latter, just that most Mike fans seem to know what he's best at (probably more than he does). So I guess some fans like myself who love Mike the hand played musician arn't to excited by the fact that, judging from those two tracks we've heard, we're getting more Mike the synth and drum box programmer, and its this Mike that seems to have taken over these days. After all Mike's as capable as ever of writing a nifty tune, I've always argued the quality of his melodies are as good now as they were in the early 70's (just about anyway) its just what he does with them (or not as the case may be) thats up for debate. In the end Mike's albums have always been hotly debated before they arrive, there was some very heated debate before everbody finally got their hands on Tres Lunas and it not any different this time around. In some ways there's been more build up to this one because Mike talked about it being in a 'new direction' and then a few months back we heard we were getting two albums of music for the price of one. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Aug. 25 2005, 16:19 Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 25 2005, 18:25) most Mike fans seem to know what he's best at (probably more than he does). I vigorously challenge that statement!   Back to top

TubularBelle Group: Members Posts: 1487 Joined: April 2004 Posted: Aug. 25 2005, 22:58 Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 25 2005, 13:25) It also boils down to the fact that Mike has had a very, very diverse career, the quality of it all aside, its certainly been diverse. For that reason there are MO fans here on these message boards and all over the world who come at his music from completely different angles, thats why there is so much, sometimes heated, debate here. Reading through all the polls here and generally gauging the mood and tastes of everybody, my conclusion is that most fans LOVE the long involved complex instrumental stuff and LOVE Mike the hand played musician and not Mike the synth and drum box programmer. Thats not to say Mike should never do the latter or has no ability to do the latter, just that most Mike fans seem to know what he's best at (probably more than he does). So I guess some fans like myself who love Mike the hand played musician arn't to excited by the fact that, judging from those two tracks we've heard, we're getting more Mike the synth and drum box programmer, and its this Mike that seems to have taken over these days. After all Mike's as capable as ever of writing a nifty tune, I've always argued the quality of his melodies are as good now as they were in the early 70's (just about anyway) its just what he does with them (or not as the case may be) thats up for debate. In the end Mike's albums have always been hotly debated before they arrive, there was some very heated debate before everbody finally got their hands on Tres Lunas and it not any different this time around. In some ways there's been more build up to this one because Mike talked about it being in a 'new direction' and then a few months back we heard we were getting two albums of music for the price of one. Heartilly agree with every word, Hear hear!!!!! And speaking of two albums for the price of one. I have seen 'Light and Shade' advertised for 9.99 pounds which seems like an excellent price but I can't decide whether to pre-order it or not as I don't really know the conversion rate to Aus $ or if it will be available to me here sooner than waiting for it to be delivered from the UK. I ordered a dvd through Amazon a while back and said never again as it cost me a small fortune and was available in the stores here for much less. It was 16 pounds and usualy a dvd here costs the same a single cd, $30, so 10 pounds for a double cd seems an excellent price. I think 1 pound is between $2 and $3 Aus. -------------- I hate getting up early. I didn't even realise there were two 6 o'clocks in one day! Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 07:08 Tracy, 9 pounds 99 converts to $23.74 Australian. I use XE.com for all my currency convertions. Very handy site. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

TubularBelle Group: Members Posts: 1487 Joined: April 2004 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 07:14 Thanks Raven, that's a good price then isn't it, will you be preordering your copy from overseas or waiting until it comes here? It will have to cost more than that here surely for a double ablum, Cheers. Tracy. -------------- I hate getting up early. I didn't even realise there were two 6 o'clocks in one day! Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 13:57 I'm sure it'll be put legaly online to buy from itunes or emusic if you use such a thing. That way at least you'll get the chance to make your own cover.   Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 15:30 Do either of these services have much Oldfield anyway? -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 15:49 As far as I can see itunes must have a deal with Virgin but not Warners. All the Virgin stuff is there but nothing else, though for some weird reason they have the Thou Art in Heaven remixes album. Emusic have got nothing by Mike at all though they do have Sally Oldfields stuff if she's your cup of tea. Emusic are pretty crap from my experience, they've rarely got stuff I'm looking for. So in responce to my own post above I guess we'll just have to see if Mercury have a deal with either provider, does anybody know if they do? Back to top

ATTMO Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: June 2004 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 16:30 Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 25 2005, 19:25) Reading through all the polls here and generally gauging the mood and tastes of everybody, my conclusion is that most fans LOVE the long involved complex instrumental stuff and LOVE Mike the hand played musician and not Mike the synth and drum box programmer. Thats not to say Mike should never do the latter or has no ability to do the latter, just that most Mike fans seem to know what he's best at (probably more than he does). So I guess some fans like myself who love Mike the hand played musician arn't to excited by the fact that, judging from those two tracks we've heard, we're getting more Mike the synth and drum box programmer, and its this Mike that seems to have taken over these days. After all Mike's as capable as ever of writing a nifty tune, I've always argued the quality of his melodies are as good now as they were in the early 70's (just about anyway) its just what he does with them (or not as the case may be) thats up for debate. my thoughts, exactly. some of his new albums (eg. guitars) could have been excellent had he combined all the tunes and ideas to one piece, plus reocurring themes/their variations and some overall structure... him saying that would be too 70s.... well there are several young new bands that want to be like in the 70s (the mars volta, the secret machines to name some) and recieve great applause... -------------- "Such is life; and we are but as grass that is cut down, and put into the oven and baked" - Jerome K Jerome Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 16:39 Exactly, but do you think Mike's finger is on the pulse of what everybody else likes in the world music, let alone his own? It doesn't look like it. My prediction for this albums general musical direction is a cross between TB3 and Tres Lunas. So if like those albums then great, if not well.... Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 17:03 And why would Mike have to follow the trend if it's the accepted thing at the moment to go back to the 70s, if he personally feels it's too old-fashioned? I'm basically with him on this actually, I don't think long instrumentals are too 70s per se, but I don't think it is a good idea to look to the past - any decade - for "fresh" ideas. Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 17:33 Well except Mike, to varying degree's since 1979, has been weirdly obsessed with following trends. Nothing wrong with that of course, its totally understandable him wanting to sound up to date and musically in step. But that of course brings us back to where we are now which is him being rather out of step and weirdly stuck in the early 90's musically. I personally don't think his music, in any sense, has progressed since TSODE. He still seems to use the same old synth and guitar sounds and most his tracks seem to follow the same old pattern and almost always have that desperately dull and unimaginative tempo and beat to them. The melodies are still there but the rest of it.....hmmm So its a shame that Mike can't show all these new up a coming prog acts a thing or two, or maybe he can. I haven't heard the new album yet but the tracks seem to be the same old 4 or 5 minuet length he does everything these days and those two tracks we have heard follow the same old formula I described above, but i guess we'll see. Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 26 2005, 17:44 So on the one hand, people (not pointing at anyone in particular) complain that he follows trends, but on the other hand, they want him to follow this particular one, simply because they like it. Back to top

tamas Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Aug. 27 2005, 12:01 I think the greatest problem with Mike, that he became completely alienated from the musical world, and overall, from the whole world around him, thats why he lost his sense of reality, and his ability to judge what is good and what is not. Listening the track „Four fathers” you can realize that he still has extremely good melodies and ideas in his mind, but he cannot, and don’t want to develop them further. In 70s 80s there was a buzzing musical environment around Mike, and no matter what kind of a „meverick” he was, it still made a great emotional influence, driving force on him. But today he does not have connection with anybody except probably some stupid Ibizian dj.-s. That is why he ask his fans what they would like to hear from him (imagine Picasso asking people what kind of paintings they would like him to paint! and then doing just the opposite they answer. And that is why he can think such a nonse that  connections to seventieth or eighties (i.e. composing long, comlex tracks) can be anachronism, when nowadays almost all of the musicans try to go back to their roots, dig up all the artistic values that were lost in 80s. The problem with this attitude that on one hand Mike will lost all of his traditional fans (as he already had lost half of them) and on the other hand he will not bee able to get new ones as well (as he gets less and less), and then wonder, why the hell he sells less and less records each year.   I think there are four possible solutions for this problem: 1. Get a good manager like Tom Newman, who has a sense of  objective, artistic judgment, and who can explain to Mike that art is not about adapting stupid formulas as „beeing up-to-date”, but beeing always earnest to yourself, doing what you can do with real emotioan depths, and if you cannot do it, then take a rest. 2. Forget all the stupid dj-s, get connected with traditional musicians: african drummers, australian didgereedoo players, syberian shamans, eskimo whistlers, and realize that the term „world music” would be much suitable for him than this up-to-date „chill out” and „ambient” shit. (sorry). 3. Travel one year around the world to get  emotional, intellectual and sensual experiences!   4. Get a clever girlfriend, with whom he falls in love, and who will tell him one night „Mike, if your next album will not be a complex, 65 minutes long instumental masterpiece, you can never tuch me any more!”   As we know, inspiration is coming either from within or outside the psyche. If inner inspiration is lost – which happens with all of the genoius people  - you can still accumulate it from outside. Picasso could be a good example again. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Aug. 27 2005, 13:17 Quote (tamas @ Aug. 27 2005, 17:01) thats why he lost his sense of reality, and his ability to judge what is good and what is not. How can you know that this is what happened? I'm puzzled by the idea that there's a whole bunch of people out here who think they know what Mike should be doing better than he does himself. To anyone who thinks Mike lost his way somewhere in the last decade or so, I would simply ask: 'Can you, or anyone else, produce something even half as good as the snow cavern flight music from Tr3s Lunas?' And the honest answer would be 'no'. So how can such a person possibly know better what Mike should be doing? The only person who can possibly know what Mike should be doing - surely? - is Mike! There's real confusion here: discovering that you don't like  his recent music, or that you wish he would do something else, doesn't necessarily mean that what he's doing is bad. Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Aug. 27 2005, 13:32 But this idea that gets banded about on thse boards sometimes that Mike is above criticism is equally astounding. Granted there is nothing worse than unconstructive criticism but then again, for me at least, there's nothing worse than utter sycophancy. Although I agree that old tamas there was being a bit close the bone as it were. Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 27 2005, 16:56 Obviously, you're free to say you don't like something, but it's one thing to say that and another thing to say Mike ought to do this and Mike ought to change that just because you would like it better that way. If you're not pleased with what Mike does, there's always the option of looking for music you like elsewhere, or creating it yourself. Back to top

Sysiyo Group: Members Posts: 245 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 27 2005, 19:09 I'd like to add to the above that we also haven't heard the entire album yet (well, most of us haven't anyway. If you have, shame on you!). 95% of the time the individual pieces sound a lot better when they're in the context of album (and snippets sound worse than the full pieces. I'm not sure if the stuff available are snippets or full tracks, I'm avoiding them until I can hear the entire thing). Back to top

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