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Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 14 2000, 19:40 One thing that people often say when you mention Macs is "Oh, there's no software for them...". So they go and buy a Windows PC instead. So that means numbers of Wintel PCs grow quickly, while numbers of Macs don't. So then, the software developers look at the statistics, say "Hmm...not many Macs out there...not worth developing for them." and go and develop a Windows title instead. And of course, because the software developers do that, there's less software for Macs, meaning that less people want to buy them...and so on... So, what it needs is for someone to break the circle. Someone willing to stick their neck out and "Think different" ;-). Seeing as Mike even uses Macs in his studio, I would have thought he might be the person to do this... Another way of looking at it is that Macs are capturing an ever growing market share at the moment, and it might not be wise business sense to ignore them, in case someone else jumps in instead... Besides, Peter Gabriel's Multimedia EVE was available for the Mac... Back to top

Unregistered Posted: June 16 2000, 11:53 I don't see the necessity of supporting Macs... it's just not worth people's while... I mean, he's probably not going to put out a Linux or Xwindows version either... the user base is just too small. Back to top

TubularUSA Group: Members Posts: 45 Joined: April 2000 Posted: June 16 2000, 13:04 MAC development for this project should be considered a secondary element. The priority should be for the majority of computers/users. People who apply their computer skills for the majority of business purposes use intel based PCs. Windows 2000 is an excellent operating system for serious computer users in the business world. I even use it at home and feel that nothing can come close. And at least there is a lot of hardware competition to drive the prices down and keep things readily available. Back to top

Unregistered Posted: June 16 2000, 13:56 I find that you are very selfish. If you have a PC it doesn't mean that you are better, neither that you have more rights than a Mac user. The Mac is a minority platform, but the number of users is the sufficiently big as to make a Mac version. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 16 2000, 17:57 But it's more than simply numbers of users... I admit that, yes, numbers of macs are lower (there are still over 25 million users out there though - not exactly a small market), and that therefore, developing software for them would perhaps be less viable. But, there is something you have to look at in marketing called a target audience - the type of people you're aiming your product at (i.e. the people you think will be buying it). What has to be thought of is, yes there are a lot more windows PCs out there, but who is using them and will they buy the product you're trying to sell them. You may find, by market research, that the percentage of Windows users who want to buy your product is proportionately lower than the percentage of Mac users who want it. That could mean that, out of a potential number of say, 100,000 copies, 40% of potential buyers could be Mac users...but only if your product was available to them. If it wasn't available to them, you'd only sell 60,000 at most, instead of your potential 100,000. That's just a scenario that I made up (you guessed, huh?). I'm not saying that it's likele to be like that in the real world, but it would be possible (an extreme case though). A similar case to this, though, was shown when music software developers started creating products for BeOS. The user base for that was still tiny when compared to almost any other OS, but as the OS was being aimed at just the type of person who used those companies's products (i.e. music and audio professionals), some companies felt it worth their while developing versions of their software for BeOS (a sufficient percentage of their target market would be using BeOS)...That was, of course, until Be decided to move away from creating operating systems... And so concludes the Korgscrew's lesson in marketing Back to top

a2d Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: June 18 2000, 15:29 Quote Originally posted by Giles: I don't see the necessity of supporting Macs... it's just not worth people's while... I mean, he's probably not going to put out a Linux or Xwindows version either... the user base is just too small. Firstly, there are a LOT more Mac users than Linux and Xwindows people. Don't compare apples to oranges. Secondly, as another poster pointed out, Mike isn't really marketing this to "all computer users," is he? Face it, this project will not expand his fanbase - it is only for the current fans. Mike may *believe* millions upon millions of people are going to get this thing, but he'd be fooling himself. The casual web surfer/music fan won't pay money for this SVR. This is relevant because it appears clear that there are a higher proportion of Mac to PC users amongst Mike fans than the proportion in the general populace. I don't have hard numbers to prove this, but if the demographics of the Amarok mailing list are a rough representation of the whole fanbase, Mac users are about 30 - 35% of his potential buying pool. As a fellow poster pointed out, this could be a significant chunk of revenue. The real question then becomes a formula of profit/loss.Say there are 100,000 potential buyers of SVR (I'm using another poster's numbers for continuity, not any real base in reality). so well, be conservative and say that 30,000 of those people are Mac people. Now. Say Mike charges $10 US for each episode. That is $300,000 in Mac revenue lost. Is that bad or good? That depends on the costs of developing a Mac version. One thing I am SURE of -- it would cost less than $300,000 to make a Mac version!!! So. Mike would profit by making a Mac version. Another interesting point is that Mike is actually saving money by doing this web-only distribution. Much less costly than shipping and distributing CD-Roms. But how much is he losing by not putting it in stores where people can see it? Again, this indicates that of the people he should be most concerned with pleasing, it is the rabid fanbase... us net users. And with the above hypothetical cost/benefit analysis, it seems very clear that Mike should make a Mac version, for his own sake. I run both Mac and PC, so this isn't just some complaint made out of self interest. It just makes sense. Back to top

Unregistered Posted: June 20 2000, 03:51 ______________________ People who apply their computer skills for the majority of business purposes use intel based PCs. Windows 2000 is an excellent operating system for serious computer users in the business world. I even use it at home and feel that nothing can come close. And at least there is a lot of hardware competition to drive the prices down and keep things readily available. _____________________ Windows 2000 is an excellent operating system... HAHAHAHA that's the funniest thing I've heard today! Serious computer users in the business world? You sound like such a dork... I bet using a business suit makes you feel oh so manly too eh? hahaha We all know that for dull dummy crappy buggy work, there's Windows. For everything else, including multimedia, creative design, fun, and liveliness. There's the Mac. And most business professional users are starting to switch to more professional and versatile platforms like Linux or the new Mac OS versions. If you use Windows at home and think that nothing comes close is because you got your head stuck up your butt fella... ;-) A lot of hardware competition? Whoa.. too bad not even with "hardware competition" can Windows or Intel machines compare to a G4 for instance. Even though they cost more. Back to top

GMOVJ Group: Members Posts: 273 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 20 2000, 07:55 To all those who think their OS is the best : Integrist sucks ! 1) W2K, HPUX, LinuX, MacOS, BeOS are good OS each one with his own weakness. The zero-bug, perfect OS doesn't exist. 2) Don't judge a platform without knowing it, try it first. I've got a MacAddicted-friend, and another who is HPUX-addicted, and they're often surprised with WIntel abilities, telling me "Oh, it works too ???" or "Ooh, yes that's cool BUT ! You don't have this tool"... "No I don't have this tool, but I can do the same thing with this other", "Oh yes, but this is not include in the OS and it's not beautiful" etc...... Everybody can do the same thing with every platform, the main thing is to KNOW how to do, to have the right tools and the right way of doing things. Some OS are simpler to understand for someones, some knows WELL some platform, and that's all. Now, this forum here is not wich platform is the best. This discussion is about "Why some people will not be able to use new MO products and what do you think of this fact." That was my opinion. pffff, this topic and this old, used, endless discussion about OS make me sick... -------------- Cheers, GMOVJ [URL=http://tubular.fodplanet.com]http://tubular.fodplanet.com[/URL] - The french speaking mailing list Back to top

Fox Group: Members Posts: 156 Joined: Feb. 2000 Posted: June 22 2000, 13:00 I was waiting for that whiney "which platform is better" debate to start. The simple fact is, you can't memtion "Mac" and "PC" in one room without getting into some debate about OS superiority . Way to go telling them off, GMOVJ!!! I agree with GMOVJ -whichever OS you know and work best in, is best for you. The fact is, YOU CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE!!!!! It's a simple fact of life. Mike sure didn't please me by making TSODE a Mac only track . Me living in the USA, where PCs dominate nearly all the market, maybe that's one reason why he's doing a PC version first. He's never been known in the USA, and this virtual "game" could easially be his ticket into the place for a change! A "game," tied to his music as a ruse, could easially fool the americans to listenting to some good music for a change . PCs are the gateway to america! It's a market stragety: go with the majority first, and then start on the minorities. Granted, Mike's never been one to please the majority (thankfully), but I'm sure even he's wise enough to realize when he might need to. All I'm saying is that he's doing the PC version first. He might make a mac version later on....but as I said in a pervious post: ___________________ "I'm also an amateur PC programmer. It is not always easy or practical to reinvent something that you've done on one platform on another. Macs work quite differently from PCs, that includes the hardware. What they've done with the graphics on PCs may not be easy to translate to Mac screens. And if it is, something may be lost in the translation -which means that the Mac version may have something inferior about it compared to the PC (or the other way around). "This is why programs that are written for PCs often stay that way, and vice versa for Mac programs. Many companies don't want to risk wasting time translating programs onto a platform that could make either version look inferior to the other. The risk is often too great." _________________ I uderstand that macs are better capable for graphics and all that manly bragging stuff, but since PCs are more prominant out there, he may be wise in selling it to the majority first and then do something with macs if it can be done right. Back to top

Unregistered Posted: Sep. 03 2000, 03:57 Let me start by saying that I am a Mac user. I am very interested in SVR. What is it that is not Mac compatible? Why couldn't someone just create a plug-in for the Mac that could do the things that the plug-in for the PC is doing now? One of the reasons I love the internet is the ability to be cross-platform compatible. I know Mike is a Mac user as well. I've seen Macs in his studio and on the stage of Tubular Bells II live. Please do not forget this important part of the internet community and support the Mac as well. Thank you. Back to top

Fox Group: Members Posts: 156 Joined: Feb. 2000 Posted: Sep. 04 2000, 18:37 NOTE-- I AM NOT TRYING TO START A DEBATE ON WHICH PLATFORM IS BETTER. BUT TO ANSWER yhtomitb's QUESTION I MUST EXPLAIN MYSELF. I SIMPLY PROPOSE THESE AS POSSIBLE REASONS WHY HE'S GOING FOR THE PC'S FIRST. I'm a programmer, so I understand the many differences that do and could exist between PCs and Macs. It's tough to explain it. Here goes: First, this site http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/9295/pc-advantage/advantage-3d.html gives PROOF -not opinion -of what each system is capable of. The above site says that PC's are better at handling 3d graphics (polygon-based rather than bitmap). Chances are that Sonic VR will use polygon graphics like Quake, Unreal and MechWarrior 3 simply because you can do a lot more with Polygon graphics! _________________________________ Second: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/9295/pc-advantage/advantage-proglang uages.html and http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/9295/pc-advantage/advantage-programmer s.html This involves a game of major magnitude. Mac programmers are rare, and it's cheaper (and easier) to go with PCs because more programmers and languages are available (hint hint ;-)). _______________________________ Third: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/9295/pc-advantage/advantage-market-sh are.html The simple fact which can't be avoided is that there're more PC's than Macs in the common person's house! The larger market share for common people at home is in PC's!!! It's simply cheaper -and with better odds of profit -to go with what the majority already has! I'd wager that Mike wants to make a virtual game based on his music; not change the computing world. _________________________________ I tried finding a similiar site explaining advantages for the Mac over a PC, but I can't find any hard FACTS of the true advantages of a Mac besides biased opinions. I challenge everyone to find a site that has FACTS ABOUT MAC SUPERIORITY! I will look at it as impartially as I looked at the above sites. For the home page, here's: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Sector/9295/pc-advantage/50-pc-advantages-lis t.html Most of the sites I've looked at so far (even the ones for PC superiority) are opinionated and offer no basis in fact. This is the only one I've found so far with facts to back its claims. Are there any such sites for Macs? If so, I'd like to know, please. All I seek is the truth; the hard evidence! Remember, this is not a spark to set the fire of the PC v/s Mac debate. I'm simply answering a question about what could be so different between PC's and Macs, and why Mike is making this for a PC first. A "plug-in" for a Mac is expensive, but they do exist. The problem is that PC instructions must be translated into Mac instructions because the Mac's processor and the Pentiums don't work exactly the same (I don't know the details). And, like poetry and operas, something is ALWAYS lost in the translation. The instructions won't be executed as fast on the translated system as they were on the origional....I don't know specifically why. There, I hope I answered your question w/o starting a PC/Mac debate which I long to aviod. [This message has been edited by Fox (edited 09-04-2000).] Back to top

Unregistered Posted: Oct. 24 2000, 07:08 >The above site says that PC's are better at >handling 3d graphics (polygon-based rather >than bitmap) It's also very out of date! Arguably, when Pentium III's first appeared they *did* have an advantage over the Mac processors that were available at the time, because the PIII had extra instructions optimising it for gaming - and more importantly, there were few (if any) 3D graphics accelerator cards available for the Mac. These days, Macs have moved to the G4 processor, support AGP and OpenGL, and have plenty of 3D accelerator cards available for them. There is <b>absolutely no reason</b> why a Mac version of Sonic VR could not be an exact duplicate of the PC version - in fact, it could quite easily be much <b>better</b> in terms of sheer speed. As a2d said, SVR is not going to set the net alight; it's primarily his fans who are going to download it. However, I know very many creative people who aren't MO fans but would be interested to play about with SVR, at least for a while - and they use Macs. The Macintosh user base obviously isn't as huge as the PC one, but it includes among its number a great many influential "user types". As anyone involved in marketing will tell you, these days it's not simply about hitting as many people as possible, it's about hitting as many of the <b>right sort of people</b> as possible - and the Mac user contingent has a higher proportion of these than the PC user base. And I speak as a PC user who is going to buy a Mac in the next year or so! Back to top

Pedro Gabriel Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Dec. 29 2000, 12:57 Why V reality will not be sucessfull: 1-Mike´s music is great but there no chance to compete visually with big companies with the knowlegde to do (if they wanted) at least 100 times better (namely Squaresoft,namco). 2-No one will by a Pc program with just music and image. They´ll buy videogames. 3-Pc is no longer the choosen plataform for entertainment (PlayStation consoles are). 4-Peter Gabriel experiences in these area were good but didn´t sell. 5-Who would like to play "Myst" or "Riven" without a plot. 6-Mainly internet users are on-line from their offices while working,they won´t be able to listen to loud music while there. 7-Mike Olfield name stands for music not images. 8-Music is about emotions not hi-tech gerated envoirements Please forget the CD, focus on the DVD.There´s no point in interaction with 14"" screen. Back to top

Archangel Foster Group: Members Posts: 215 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Dec. 29 2000, 13:27 Pedro, how many times do you plan to post this? Usually, once is enough for everyone to get it! Back to top

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