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First_Excursion Offline




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Posted: Sep. 22 2023, 23:55

Been digging around in my Berlin School stuff and forgot about this gem from F.D Project / Frank Dorritke.

The Return Of O​.​.​.​ (part four)

https://fdproject.bandcamp.com/track/the-return-of-o-part-four

If someone told me the first 5 minutes was Mike in the early 90s I'd have believed it! Awesome Tubular Bells derivative.

He has lots of other great stuff, much of it inspired by Mike and classic Berlin School.
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Priabonia Offline




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Posted: Sep. 28 2023, 11:39

Quote (First_Excursion @ Sep. 23 2023, 04:55)
If someone told me the first 5 minutes was Mike in the early 90s I'd have believed it!

It's *better* than Mike in the early 90s (but then that's a pretty low bar...). It's nice but a bit too derivative for me, the keyboard motif is really just a version of the TB piano riff, and some of the key changes were very Jean Michel Jarre.

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Sentinel_NZ Online




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Posted: Sep. 28 2023, 15:42

Quote (Priabonia @ Sep. 28 2023, 11:39)
Quote (First_Excursion @ Sep. 23 2023, 04:55)
If someone told me the first 5 minutes was Mike in the early 90s I'd have believed it!

It's *better* than Mike in the early 90s (but then that's a pretty low bar...).

Are you sure?  Amarok released in 1990 and is one of the greatest albums of all time, by anyone, and it's no hyperbole to state that the level of compositional genius on display is veritably comparable to the greatest musical minds of the Western tradition known to mankind including the likes of Tchaikovsky, Schubert, Bach and Mozart.  And this you call "a low bar"...and say this present recording is superior to that.  :)

Then we have Tubular Bells II, from 1992 - which is even better and in my humble opinion, comfortably the finest popular era album of all time by anyone, any genre.  

Then in 1994 he released The Songs of Distant Earth, which despite inevitable comparisons to similar world music fusion outfits of the time such as Deep Forest and especially Enigma, is worth a million Enigma albums and stands out on its own as by far and away the supreme example of its type and an utterly mesmerizing, flawless, divine and transcendent masterpiece in its own right.  That's "a low bar"...?

Granted, between them we got Heaven's Open which is not good (apart from the title track which may just be his single most brilliant, inspiring and best straight ahead mainstream rock track, and the excellent longform piece Music from the Balcony, which stands up against his earlier examples of this style such as Taurus II, The Lake, The Wind Chimes, Crises, etc), but that was surely all about contractual obligations, the requirement to deliver a 3 minute pop song-themed record.  (Monty Python did it with their own "Contractual Obligation Album" - Mike probably would have called Heaven's Open by that title if it hadn't been taken).

All in all - I suggest that you are gravely mistaken to describe the 1990-94/early 90s output "a low bar".  If so, then you have written off literally the entire history of recorded music, from the Baroque era (17th/18th century) to today.  And to say that this fan music/pastiche offered here is *better* than Amarok, Tubular Bells 2, The Songs of Distant Earth, Music from the Balcony and Heaven's Open (the song)...wow...just...lol.  I think today I can finally safely say those oft-abused words: "Now I really have heard it all".
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Sentinel_NZ Online




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Posted: Sep. 28 2023, 18:22

Quote (First_Excursion @ Sep. 22 2023, 23:55)
Been digging around in my Berlin School stuff and forgot about this gem from F.D Project / Frank Dorritke.

The Return Of O​.​.​.​ (part four)

https://fdproject.bandcamp.com/track/the-return-of-o-part-four

If someone told me the first 5 minutes was Mike in the early 90s I'd have believed it! Awesome Tubular Bells derivative.

He has lots of other great stuff, much of it inspired by Mike and classic Berlin School.

That particular soaring electric guitar sound is an obvious (I don't say shameless, although I did think it) nod to Oldfield but otherwise I'd say this is more akin to the more stodgy early 1980s film score efforts of Tangerine Dream and others like them (eg Thief and so many others).
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Sep. 29 2023, 19:10

Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ Sep. 28 2023, 15:42)
Are you sure?  Amarok released in 1990 and is one of the greatest albums of all time, by anyone, and it's no hyperbole to state that the level of compositional genius on display is veritably comparable to the greatest musical minds of the Western tradition known to mankind including the likes of Tchaikovsky, Schubert, Bach and Mozart.  

It's not much of a composition at all tbh. It was composed and recorded ad-hoc, and it sounds like it. I'm sure Mike and Tom had a lot of fun, but it sounds like 50 jingles strung together - like one of those old stereo system demonstration records. It doesn't sound like a lot of thought went into the composition.

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Sentinel_NZ Online




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Posted: Sep. 29 2023, 23:56

Quote (larstangmark @ Sep. 29 2023, 19:10)
Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ Sep. 28 2023, 15:42)
Are you sure?  Amarok released in 1990 and is one of the greatest albums of all time, by anyone, and it's no hyperbole to state that the level of compositional genius on display is veritably comparable to the greatest musical minds of the Western tradition known to mankind including the likes of Tchaikovsky, Schubert, Bach and Mozart.  

It's not much of a composition at all tbh. It was composed and recorded ad-hoc, and it sounds like it. I'm sure Mike and Tom had a lot of fun, but it sounds like 50 jingles strung together - like one of those old stereo system demonstration records. It doesn't sound like a lot of thought went into the composition.

On the contrary, Amarok is among the most exquisite, profound, sublime, brilliant, meticulous, astounding, fantastic, advanced, complex, and utterly scintillating musical compositions in recorded history that stands up absolutely against anything created by anyone else in known history with the possible exception of Tchaikovsky (Swan Lake, Nutcracker eg) and Beethoven.  The sheer volume of original musical ideas packed into the hour is quite unprecedented and astonishing.  Each thread of an idea or theme could on its own conceivably provide the basis for a whole album.  And yet the album as a  whole is a standalone tour de force, an emotional knockout that reaches a shatteringly glorious climax.

There really is nothing else like it in rock history and you have to look at the greatest musical masters in known history over the last 200-350 and more years to find anything that rivals Amarok's genius.

The only thing more remarkable is that 2 years later, Oldfield produced an even better album with Tubular Bells 2, and then almost outdid that yet again with The Songs of Distant Earth; and then produced  yet another work of peerless mastery in Tubular Bells 3 and was also able to produce two more masterpieces (Voyager and The Millennium Bell) all within the same decade.  The fact that none of these albums was even nominated for the Mercury Prize - when you look at some of the worthless records that have been shortlisted or awarded that accolade - really is obscene.
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Sep. 30 2023, 05:14

Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ Sep. 29 2023, 23:56)
The only thing more remarkable is that 2 years later, Oldfield produced an even better album with Tubular Bells 2, and then almost outdid that yet again with The Songs of Distant Earth; and then produced  yet another work of peerless mastery in Tubular Bells 3 and was also able to produce two more masterpieces (Voyager and The Millennium Bell) all within the same decade.  

I have a hard time understanding why anyone likes those albums, but apparently there are plenty of people who do.

The "early stages" demo showed promise, but TB2 is probably the most disappoint record I have ever bought. It's car commercial music from start to finnish ("sentinel" is good car commercial music though). It's a better composition than Amarok of course, but then of course it's based on an older album. If the first side is dull, the second side is worse. Generic library music and musical jokes that seem aimed at you grandma. The whole album sounds like TB2 re-imagined by coke-fueled marketing executives.

TSODE was the first Mike Oldfield record I bought and immediately sold. If the overly breathy "chanting" was grating on the ears on TB2, the ethnokitch of TSODE is shocking. Is this the same man who once used ethnic instrumentation to create inventive rock music, that is now basing sounds around jojk samples. This is Mike at the same creative low that Tangerine Dream visited with "Goblin's Club" a year later.
Let's not mention the amount of reverb that is using on his guitar at this point, which makes it sounds like he's doubting his own playing abilities.

TB3? I haven't listened that closely, but from what I've heard it sounds like music made specifically for a mid late 90s inauguration event - made to impress and create awe in the moment - and instantly forgettable. Add the fact that Mike didn't seem to have the balls to release and all instrumental album and stand by it - so he tried to embed a Moonlight Shadow-clone in the suite, while pretending that it was an essential part of the composition. It's like replacing the middle section of "Close to the Edge" with a "owner of a lonely heart"-soundalike, and claim that it's what meant to be like that to begin with.

NP:
David Bedford - instructions for angels


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Priabonia Offline




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Posted: Oct. 01 2023, 10:50

Erm , is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?

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Sentinel_NZ Online




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Posted: Oct. 01 2023, 19:28

Quote (larstangmark @ Sep. 30 2023, 05:14)
Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ Sep. 29 2023, 23:56)
The only thing more remarkable is that 2 years later, Oldfield produced an even better album with Tubular Bells 2, and then almost outdid that yet again with The Songs of Distant Earth; and then produced  yet another work of peerless mastery in Tubular Bells 3 and was also able to produce two more masterpieces (Voyager and The Millennium Bell) all within the same decade.  

I have a hard time understanding why anyone likes those albums, but apparently there are plenty of people who do.

The "early stages" demo showed promise, but TB2 is probably the most disappoint record I have ever bought. It's car commercial music from start to finnish ("sentinel" is good car commercial music though). It's a better composition than Amarok of course, but then of course it's based on an older album. If the first side is dull, the second side is worse. Generic library music and musical jokes that seem aimed at you grandma. The whole album sounds like TB2 re-imagined by coke-fueled marketing executives.

TSODE was the first Mike Oldfield record I bought and immediately sold. If the overly breathy "chanting" was grating on the ears on TB2, the ethnokitch of TSODE is shocking. Is this the same man who once used ethnic instrumentation to create inventive rock music, that is now basing sounds around jojk samples. This is Mike at the same creative low that Tangerine Dream visited with "Goblin's Club" a year later.
Let's not mention the amount of reverb that is using on his guitar at this point, which makes it sounds like he's doubting his own playing abilities.

TB3? I haven't listened that closely, but from what I've heard it sounds like music made specifically for a mid late 90s inauguration event - made to impress and create awe in the moment - and instantly forgettable. Add the fact that Mike didn't seem to have the balls to release and all instrumental album and stand by it - so he tried to embed a Moonlight Shadow-clone in the suite, while pretending that it was an essential part of the composition. It's like replacing the middle section of "Close to the Edge" with a "owner of a lonely heart"-soundalike, and claim that it's what meant to be like that to begin with.

NP:
David Bedford - instructions for angels


Tubular Bells II is comfortably the greatest popular/rock era album of any genre,by anyone - utterly sublime, a profound and unparalleled masterpiece from the opening note to the last.  It makes the original TB, good as it is, sound like a child scraping their nails on a blackboard.  Comparing Tubular Bells 1 to Tubular Bells II is like comparing Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, said to have been composed by Mozart aged 4 (an apocryphal story, no doubt), to his magisterial 40th Symphony.

The Songs of Distant Earth is only slightly behind Tubular Bells II.  5 minutes of The Songs of Distant Earth - still by far the best of its kind - is worth a million hours of the kitchy, faux-ethno 90s world fusion music such as Enigma (albeit they did produce a few stunning and brilliant tracks such as The Return to Innocence), Deep Forest etc. And Mike worked with Michael Cretu way back in the 80s meaning they were on the same page since day one.  Just because Enigma released Cross of Changes a year before Songs of Distant Earth doesn't mean a thing.  Oldfield had been building up to that particular style since his very earliest days, as can be heard (and seen in the video) on The Wind Chimes, released a full three years before Enigma's debut album, and also arguably on The Killing Fields soundtrack.  The African chanting heard at the end of Amarok was also produced and released 6 months before Enigma's first album (MCMXC a.D.) (Amarok released May 28 1990, MCMXC a.D. released December 3 1990 - thus Oldfield beat them to it by a clear 6 months and that's even disregarding The Wind Chimes from 1987.  Therefore those who complain that Mike Oldfield was imitating world music pioneers with The Songs of Distant Earth are quite mistaken - he himself is/was the real pioneer of the genre, at least on a par with Michael Cretu, working together as they did on the song The Time Has Come, from Islands in 1987).  In short, The Songs of Distant Earth is an exhilarating, organic, stunning, original, unsurpassed cosmic sonic journey, the absolute first and last word in the world music/fusion genre, easily among the greatest albums of all time by anyone, any genre, in the popular era, never mind just in the 90s electronic/ambient house genre to which it also belongs.

And lest we forget, Tubular Bells III is also, for its own part, one of the greatest albums of all time, by anyone, an unforgettable triumph.  The premiere concert at Horse Guard Parade is also among the great concert films (alongside the premiere of Tubular Bells II - both of which make "Stop Making Sense" or "The Last Waltz" look and sound amateurish) Man in the Rain is one the greatest and most beautiful rock/pop songs of the 90s (even though it was composed in the early 80s, around the same time as Moonlight Shadow or a couple of years after), a bonafide slice of ethereal heaven, as good as any pop/rock record produced by anyone of that era or any other. Don't even utter the name of "Owner of a Lonely Heart" - workmanlike rocker that it is - in the same breath as the exquisite "Man in the Rain"...! And I'm not just saying so out of bias.  My personal record collection consists of over 2000 CD and vinyl albums , 50,000 digital tracks both legally purchased from iTunes and picked up in various places, and assorted other discs and files spanning every genre, century and decade from classical to the present day.

And yet you want to judge a record like Tubular Bells III while openly admitting that you haven't even having listened to it.  Lol...what more needs to be said?  You describe something as "forgettable", having not  even (properly) listened to it.  But how can you forget something that you've never heard?

The fact that Oldfield could also produce Voyager, The Millennium Bell, and Amarok - as well as Guitars, which is also a very fine album - all in the one decade of the 90s makes it without doubt his finest decade and arguably the greatest single decade of musical output by one artist ever, with possible rivalry from say The Beatles (although there is great doubt that they composed all or even half or even a fraction of the music attributed to them), Led Zeppelin or Pink Floyd (Dark Side of the Moon, Wish You Were Here, Animals and The Wall all in the space of 6 short years).

As for Yes, I should take this opportunity to plug their finest work - the epic "Lift Me Up" from 1991 (the full 6 minute version especially) - which is among the most criminally underrated rock anthems of the ages.  Most people even many Yes fans aren't familiar with that track.

Of course, Mike knew well in advance that not everyone is capable of appreciating his singular genius.  Hence the note found in the packaging for Amarok which read "HEALTH WARNING – This record could be hazardous to the health of cloth-eared nincompoops. If you suffer from this condition, consult your doctor immediately".  This warning could, evidently, equally apply to Tubular Bells II & III, The Songs of Distant Earth, and so on, just as much as to Amarok.
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Sentinel_NZ Online




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Posted: Oct. 01 2023, 19:37

Quote (Priabonia @ Oct. 01 2023, 10:50)
Erm , is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?

Why must it be either?  I could be arguing in my spare time  :p
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pauken Offline




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Posted: Oct. 01 2023, 20:35

The problem is that your "arguments" are so ludicrously hyperbolic that they fairly quickly become meaningless to the point of self-parody.

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Tubular Bells II is comfortably the greatest popular/rock era album of any genre,by anyone - utterly sublime, a profound and unparalleled masterpiece.


Nonsense. I quite like TBII. But it's not any of those things.

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The Songs of Distant Earth, an exhilarating, organic, stunning, original, unsurpassed cosmic sonic journey, is easily among the great 10 albums of all time by anyone, any genre, in the popular era.


Says you. I quite like that one too. But it's not even vaguely "unsurpassed" or even particularly "original".

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all in the one decade of the 90s makes it without doubt his finest decade and arguably the greatest single decade of musical output by one artist ever


Oh please. I think his 70's albums were much better, surely more distinctive and original, and definitely more timeless and durable.

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The Beatles (although there is great doubt that they composed all or even half or even a fraction of the music attributed to them)


Citation required. Otherwise you're just veering into some sort of conspiracy black hole. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned the moon landings at this point. And I'm sure you're going to again soon...

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On the contrary, Amarok is among the most exquisite, profound, sublime, brilliant, meticulous, astounding, fantastic, advanced, complex, and utterly scintillating musical compositions in recorded history that stands up absolutely against anything created by anyone else in known history with the possible exception of Tchaikovsky (Swan Lake, Nutcracker eg) and Beethoven.


You're really going to say that?

I love Amarok, it's one of my favourite things. But you're going to say that the only thing you can think of that's better (apart from TBII) are cheesy ballet suites by Tchaikovsky (which I also love but it's pretty clear that Tchaikovsky himself didn't care for them much) and "Beethoven" without referencing any particular work of his?

I think you need to try harder.

What about the works of: Mahler, R.Strauss, Schoenberg, Berg, Webern, Stravinsky, Scriabin, Janacek, Sibelius, Holst, Ravel, Debussy, Shostakovich, Lutoslawski, Penderecki, Xenakis, Stockhausen, Copland, Glass, Reich, Adams, Cage to name a few.

I think you need to cast your net a bit wider.

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There really is nothing else like it in rock history and you have to look at the greatest musical masters in known history over the last 200-350 and more years to find anything that rivals Amarok's genius.


Rubbish. It pains me to have to say that because I LOVE Amarok. But you've gone off the deep end.

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The sheer volume of original musical ideas packed into the hour is quite unprecedented and astonishing.


Quantity is not the same thing as quality.

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And yet the album as a  whole is a standalone tour de force, an emotional knockout that reaches a shatteringly glorious climax.


I can definitely get on board with this sentiment. It is a wonderful thing. It's got me through some dark times in the past.

I just think you need to temper some of your statements. They're very hard to take seriously.
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Sentinel_NZ Online




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Posted: Oct. 01 2023, 20:36

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Nonsense. I quite like TBII. But it's not any of those things.


(et. al....unlike you I have no intention of responding to each and every syllable one by one).

You actually name drop Stravinsky...Oh, please.  Sorry, you lost me right there and then.  I would happily cast he into a net, filled with rocks, and then cast it far, far away beyond earshot, to the bottom of the ocean.  Even then I feel sorry for the fish.  And a lot of the others you mentioned are equally unpleasant.  People actually compare "The Planets" to "Music of the Spheres".  5 seconds of Music of the Spheres is worth a trillion lightyears of "The Planets".  The two don't even bear the slightest comparison.  Mike Oldfield's unique and singular genius is much greater than all of your Who's Who (- and Then Some) of Important Composers ™ for Serious Listening Whom One Is Supposed to Like ™ all clumped together, and I mean that quite seriously, without any fear of hyperbole.  There was no one else like him since Tchaikovsky - this is certainly true.  And even worse you describe the 2 1/2 hour epic, overwhelming masterpiece of Swan Lake (which is not a "suite" by the way....you lose points by getting basic terminology wrong, not that this is a contest of course) - possibly the greatest single extant musical composition known to man today, with the exception of the 5th and 9th symphonies of Beethoven - and other heavenly, godlike masterworks such as The Nutcracker as "cheesy ballet".. LOL...and then reference the aggressively anti-enjoyment, anti-melody, positively Weimarian, almost Dadaesque, barbaric non-music of Igor Stravinsky.  Now I really HAVE heard it all!

So if you're really going to go with Strav, Shosty, Holst, Aaron Copland (who for his part, his one replayable number was epitomized and much improved by Emerson, Lake and Palmer in 1977) and Philip Glass (whom Mike Oldfield already surpassed with his interpretation of his only worthy tune, North Star, in 1979) then, well, how can I say this - I think you need to try harder.  Much, much harder...!

Frankly the other guy was closer to the proverbial mark, without even trying, when he named-dropped Yes. At least with Yes - hopelessly overrated as much of their body of work is, including Close to the Edge - you get Jon Anderson who of course was a close friend and work colleague of Mike Oldfield and who to his eternal credit produced together with Vangelis one of the finest, mind-expanding, intelligent, truly wondrous progressive/space rock epics, "Horizon", and the dreamiest confection of decadent pop music perfection with "I'll Find My Way Home".

In sum: says you! with ludicrous hyperbole (albeit tempered with an,  admittedly, admirably effortful passive aggressivity).  Let's hear your nonsensical, rubbish opinion as to the greatest albums....Go on then.  I'm bracing myself because I know this is going to be painful.  Second thought, no, don't tell me, because I fancy hazarding a guess...Brian Eno, "Music for Staring at Wallpaper While Listening to the Grass Grow and Waiting for Paint to Dry", no doubt?

Funny how the true fact arrived at through much study and careful discrimination -via unaccountable 1000s of hours of careful listening and openminded, unbiased subsequent reflection and contemplation - is "absurd parody" to those who don't like to hear it.  Isn't it?  It makes you very hard to take seriously.  By the way I'm not trying to put you in a bad temper.
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Oct. 02 2023, 06:21

Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ Oct. 01 2023, 20:36)
People actually compare "The Planets" to "Music of the Spheres".  5 seconds of Music of the Spheres is worth a trillion lightyears of "The Planets".  

I'm lost for words. First it was that 1991 Yes album, now this! You are truly different.

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pauken Offline




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Posted: Oct. 02 2023, 12:30

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You actually name drop Stravinsky...Oh, please.  Sorry, you lost me right there and then.

Oh well, very literally your loss then :)

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People actually compare "The Planets" to "Music of the Spheres".  5 seconds of Music of the Spheres is worth a trillion light years of "The Planets".  The two don't even bear the slightest comparison.

They certainly don't bear comparison but you've got it the wrong way around in my opinion. For what that's worth. But The Planets has a special place in my heart and Spheres really doesn't so I was always going to say that.

I've always found MOTS to be very pedestrian, both in the harmonic tropes and rehashing of old patterns that MO uses and the insipid orchestration that Karl Jenkins gave it. No wonder Classic FM listeners loved it so much, nothing in there that could cause any trouble to anyone's blood pressure!

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Mike Oldfield's unique and singular genius is much greater than all of your Who's Who (- and Then Some) of Important Composers ™ for Serious Listening Whom One Is Supposed to Like ™

I strongly disagree with you there but then you knew I would :) You do seem to have some sort of aversion or allergy to the 20th Century Western "classical" music repertoire?

I didn't have to be "forced" to like this music because I was "supposed" to, I discovered it and loved it. The riches and wonders therein are truly spectacular and worthy of all the glowing adjectives you've given to Amarok, TBII and others. It does seem that you're totally closed off to true wonders there and I'm not sure why.

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Swan Lake (which is not a "suite" by the way....you lose points by getting basic terminology wrong, not that this is a contest of course)

I have played the Tchaikovsky ballets many times, both the suites in concert and seasons of the full works from the pit, at various times in my career. They're great music to be sure. But in my opinion they're not as great as you think they are, which is also fine, they're just opinions.

And if we're being pedantic about basic terminology, you compared 5 seconds with a trillion light years earlier which is equating a time against a distance so doesn't really work. You might need some of Einstein's General Relativity equations to make that comparison :)

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aggressively anti-enjoyment, anti-melody, positively Weimarian, almost Dadaesque, barbaric non-music of Igor Stravinsky.

Have to disagree strongly with you there. The three first Ballet Russe Stravinsky ballet scores are much more enjoyable to play, watch and listen to than the Tchaikovsky ones, again in my opinion.

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Aaron Copland (who for his part, his one replayable number was epitomized and much improved by Emerson, Lake and Palmer in 1977)and Philip Glass (whom Mike Oldfield already surpassed with his interpretation of his only worthy tune, North Star, in 1979)

The ELP version is great, have always loved that. Really it's not an improvement on the original though. And Copland wrote some wonderful chamber music and other pieces, I have a fondness for Appalachian Spring. And I disagree with you about Philip Glass and North Star. He's written a LOT of different things, a lot of which all sound the same to me, but the things of his I have liked have all been better than that sort of tune from North Star - the very final Knee Play 5 from Einstein on the Beach is a particular favourite for me.

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Frankly the other guy was closer to the proverbial mark, without even trying, when he named-dropped Yes.

Eh? Who?

Horizon is excellent it's true and I love the whole Friends of Mr Cairo album. Close to the Edge is a pretty amazing album but that's just my opinion.

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Second thought, no, don't tell me, because I fancy hazarding a guess...Brian Eno, "Music for Staring at Wallpaper While Listening to the Grass Grow and Waiting for Paint to Dry", no doubt?

Wow, is that the level we've got to now? How old are you? :P

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Funny how the true fact arrived at through much study and careful discrimination -via unaccountable 1000s of hours of careful listening and openminded, unbiased subsequent reflection and contemplation - is "absurd parody" to those who don't like to hear it.

So you think that because you've listened to a lot of records, you have somehow got to some objective truth about what the best music is, rather than just decided what you like and what you don't?

You're saying that your opinion is actually "true fact"? That's quite a leap.

Also, can you elaborate on how you ensure you're being unbiased and open-minded when listening to music? I'm curious about that.

It's great to have opinions about music, we all have them. At some point though, if you're going to say there's objective truth somewhere, it needs to be backed up with some sort of evidence, a rational argument with examples and analysis about WHY it's true and not just your opinion, no matter how strongly felt and thought.

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By the way I'm not trying to put you in a bad temper.

Oh not at all, it's comedy gold all the way! :)
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First_Excursion Offline




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Posted: Oct. 04 2023, 06:30

Quote (Priabonia @ Sep. 28 2023, 11:39)
It's *better* than Mike in the early 90s (but then that's a pretty low bar...).


Perhaps rather the general direction I expected or would have preferred Mike to take at that time. I can easily go up to 1985, ending at Pictures in the Dark / Legend. I kept buying the albums and doing my best to like and understand them after that but I don't go back to them. Obviously it was still there for many others so... good luck to them.  

Quote (larstangmark @ Sep. 30 2023, 05:14)
The "early stages" demo showed promise


That was my experience too, then something completely different materialised. Not sure it's fair to blame Trevor Horn for all of it but I never forgave him anyway.

Quote (larstangmark @ Sep. 30 2023, 05:14)
Let's not mention the amount of reverb that is using on his guitar at this point, which makes it sounds like he's doubting his own playing abilities.


That excess reverb and vigorous compression gets on my nerves. It starts with Trevor Horn and becomes a new standard that never goes away. To my ears Mike's greatest guitar playing was when he was touring regularly and there's no really spectacular playing I can think of again after that. Really he was getting a bit lazy and out of practice on guitar. A hard earned rest of course and if I had achieved what he had in those first 10 years I'd be doing some coasting too.

Quote (pauken @ Oct. 02 2023, 12:30)
Oh not at all, it's comedy gold all the way!


It has been riotous, I'm glad I paid for the full half hour!
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