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nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Mar. 30 2008, 23:10 I'm new to this forum, so please excuse if this topic has been dealt with elsewhere... but Mr Oldfield has expressed an enthusiasm for Sibelius. When I was listening to Music of the Spheres I was reminded of the mood of Sibelius's Night Ride and Sunrise. Is anyone else here familiar with Sibelius, and thought this? Incidentally, I've often thought the Sibelius choral song "A Song for Lemminkainen" would appeal to fans of "Taurus II"! Back to top

trcanberra Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Mar. 31 2008, 06:24 Quote (nightspore @ Mar. 30 2008, 23:10) I'm new to this forum, so please excuse if this topic has been dealt with elsewhere... but Mr Oldfield has expressed an enthusiasm for Sibelius. When I was listening to Music of the Spheres I was reminded of the mood of Sibelius's Night Ride and Sunrise. Is anyone else here familiar with Sibelius, and thought this? Incidentally, I've often thought the Sibelius choral song "A Song for Lemminkainen" would appeal to fans of "Taurus II"! Hi there - and welcome aboard. I have a little Sibelius - the symphonies and a few of the tone poems.  Can't say I made much of a mental link to any of them with Mike's music, but has been a while since I listened to them. Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Mar. 31 2008, 08:35 Well, I haven't heard either of the pieces you mentioned, but after reading the interviews where Mike talks about Sibelius, I got recordings of a few of his symphonies, including of course the Fifth. A while later I managed to find the recording Mike mentioned - Sir John Barbirolli conducting the Hallé Orchestra - in a library, and made a tape copy of it - not ideal for classical music obviously, but I've since gotten hold of it on CD, and listened to it again a while ago. My reaction was the same as back then - it's beautiful, I'd probably even rank it among my favourite classical pieces but it still sounds 'just' like classical music to me - I was expecting something more out of the ordinary. I guess that was naive - expecting some sort of "classical Mike" - but it doesn't move me in the same way it seems to have moved Mike. And as for that part from the third movement which Mike described as "the most beautiful thing he's ever heard" - again, it is beautiful, but bordering just a little too much on the schmaltzy to get the same sort of recognition from me. In fact, it somewhat reminds me of the theme from "North And South", which may or may not have been inspired by it. Of course that one definitely crosses the kitsch border, which the Sibelius doesn't. Again, I like it, but I had hoped I'd like it more than I ended up doing. I guess that has little to do with what this thread is about - I'm sorry - I guess I just finally had to get that off my chest... Oh, and by the way, I stumbled upon this a while ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7QPBzAJ_io ... it's no coincidence - David Bedford did arrangements for this! Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Mar. 31 2008, 08:44 Thanks for your welcome, trcanberra! Holger, I know what you mean about Sibelius's symphonies. If you want to hear some Sibelius that's joyous in the way Mike's music is, try the Karelia suite and also "The Song for Lemminkainen" that I mentioned. (This one is hard to find, though.) Like everyone, Sibelius had his "Music from the Balcony" days (my apologies if you like this piece; it's about the only long piece by Mr Oldfield that I don't care for). Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Mar. 31 2008, 08:59 Thanks for the hint! I've got the Karelia Suite, actually - not sure I've listened to it yet, but I'll definitely give it a try! I've also got something called "Lemminkäinen Suite", but it seems to just be two excerpts, and "The Song for Lemminkainen" is not included, if it is from that suite anyway. And yes, I like Music From The Balcony - no need to apologize though. To each his own I guess!   Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Mar. 31 2008, 20:37 Hi Holger, The Lemminkainen Suite is different from "A Song for Lemminkainen". (Lemminkainen is a figure in Finnish mythology, a bit of a lad as well.) I quite like The Lemminkainen  Suite, but it's much more atmospheric than the "joyous" pieces I was talking about: perfect if you want to drift off into some Nordic dream, but not if you're feeling particularly exuberant! The only recording I know of for "A Song for Lemminkainen" is the BIS record "Finland Awakes" (Lahti Symphony Orchestra). I hesitate to recommend buying it, because many of the other pieces are never-before-recorded curios of historical interest only. Still, if you can pick up a copy for a few dollars on Amazon no great harm will be done. It would be interesting to know what Mike's favourite Sibelius pieces are. Does he ever visit this site? I'm almost certain "Night Ride and Sunrise" is one of them, given what I said about "Music of the Spheres". I'll have another listen to "Spheres" so that I can say exactly which piece it was that reminded me of it. Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: April 01 2008, 03:42 Listened to the Karelia Suite yesterday - very lovely indeed! It'll definitely get more spins. Quote The only recording I know of for "A Song for Lemminkainen" is the BIS record "Finland Awakes" (Lahti Symphony Orchestra). Interesting you mention that recording. When I was listening to the Karelia Suite yesterday, I noticed I already had a version of "Finlandia" on my computer, and it is also with Osmo Vänskä conducting the Lahti Symphony Orchestra - it was on a CD that came free with a BIS catalogue. Since my Sibelius CD box also contains "Finlandia", with Sir John Barbirolli conducting the Hallé, I started comparing the two versions, something I've always meant to try with two different recordings of the same piece of classical music but never got around to. I must admit I didn't get very far  yesterday either, but the differences I was able to make out in the opening section alone were quite remarkable. I'm sure the Lahti Orchestra recording is far from bad, but compared like that, the Hallé was the clear winner, and I'm beginning to understand why Mike calls other recordings of Sibelius works "hopeless"... Quote It would be interesting to know what Mike's favourite Sibelius pieces are. He has explicitely stated that the Fifth Symphony is one of the biggest influences on his own music. Other than that, I've never heard of him talking about particular Sibelius pieces. Anyone else know? Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 01 2008, 08:55 I'm glad you liked the "Karelia Suite", Holger. I must say I'm very surprised that Mike's favourite Sibelius is the 5th symphony; the symphonies are considered his best works, but I always get the impression that that assessment depends on a purely intellectual assessment of them: how well they obey sonata form, etc. They're certainly not among my favourite works by him. (I do like the opening minutes of the 7th symphony; it has rather the same mood as the marvelous "Wind Chimes Part !", which I can't believe people on this site don't like! Actually, another Sibelius piece, the "Hymn of Praise" from his "Swanwhite" suite, is even more Wind-Chimes-Part-1-ish. To change the subject slightly, I wonder if Mike felt constrained at all by being restricted to piano and orchestra in "Music of the Spheres". In many of his pieces, such as "Taurus 2", you can almost feel his joy at being able to dip into any kind of musical instrument combination and style he likes. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: April 01 2008, 16:51 @ nightspore: I have a 3-CD collection of Sibelius' tone poems and yes, I agree with you about Night ride and Sunrise and MotS. A similar 'feel' is there throughout, especially in the more powerful, 'loud' parts. About the "Song for Lemminkainen" you mention above, is that part of Four legends from the Kalevala, a.k.a. Lemminkäinen Suite? If so, I've got it on the same collection. But I've not listened to the suite for a long time, so I can't really comment. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 01 2008, 19:54 Hi Ugo, thanks for confirming my impressions with regard to Night Ride! Probably Mike was deliberately alluding to the piece: the sun, which is such a strong musical idea in the Sibelius work, is obviously one of the most important of the celestial spheres. "A Song for Lemminkainen" is completely separate from the "Lemminkainen Suite". It's part of his Opus 31, a set of three orchestral choral songs (the other two are "Song of the Athenians" and "Have You Courage?") It's just over four minutes long. The recording I have("Finland Awakes" on the BIS label) gives the impression that it was recorded in some vast chamber (I always think of one of the vast chambers in Mike's Maestro world when I listen to it! Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: April 02 2008, 03:58 Nightspore, here is a link to the article where Mike talks about Sibelius and the 5th symphony. He also discusses it in his autobiography, "Changeling". Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 02 2008, 05:34 Many thanks, Holger! I'll read it ASAP and get back to you. I've just listened to TMotS again, and it's track 5, "The Tempest", which reminds me of Sibelius's "Night Ride and Sunrise". You have the same restless strings in the foreground, and the gradually increasing French horns (which to Sibelius represented the sunrise) in the background. Coincidentally, Sibelius also wrote a piece called "The Tempest" (based on Shakespeare, obviously); but it's one Sibelius piece I'm not familiar with yet. I wonder what the consensus will be with regard to TMotS. I think it's a very good album, although I don't think any of the pieces have the emotional intensity of, say, "Santa Maria" or "Amber Light" from The Millennium Bell. Just my opinion. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: April 02 2008, 09:31 Quote (nightspore @ April 02 2008, 01:54) The recording I have("Finland Awakes" on the BIS label) gives the impression that it was recorded in some vast chamber (I always think of one of the vast chambers in Mike's Maestro world when I listen to it! Actually I do have a Sibelius double CD on the BIS label... BIS CD-1015... with Osmo Vänskä conducting the Lahti Symphony Orchestra... which I haven't listened since years. Is that the same one you have? If it is, well, then I've got "Lemminkäinen's Song". -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 02 2008, 19:34 Ugo, no,  my CD is a single one. It's called "Finland Awakes". Holger, I've read the Mike interview for which you kindly provided a link. The ultra-positive comments he made about the Barbirolli recording make me wonder whether I should seek it out. My version of the fifth is by Vladimir Ashkenazy, and it left no great impression on me. Perhaps Barbirolli has a "magic touch" - if you'll excuse the joke: I've always thought my favourite Mozart symphony, number 34, was due to the symphony itself; but it may be due to the fact that Barbirolli conducts it! Incidentally, the section of the fifth that Mike most likes is usually referred to as "Thor Swinging his Hammer" - rather an inappropriate title, given that Thor does not appear in Finnish mythology. Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: April 03 2008, 03:23 Quote (nightspore @ April 03 2008, 01:34) Holger, I've read the Mike interview for which you kindly provided a link. The ultra-positive comments he made about the Barbirolli recording make me wonder whether I should seek it out. My version of the fifth is by Vladimir Ashkenazy, and it left no great impression on me. Perhaps Barbirolli has a "magic touch" - if you'll excuse the joke: I've always thought my favourite Mozart symphony, number 34, was due to the symphony itself; but it may be due to the fact that Barbirolli conducts it! I'm also wondering whether I should give the Barbirolli version another try. The first version I bought - because I was unable to find the Barbirolli at the time - was conducted by Lorin Maazel, and I really can't say whether or not that was a good choice. When I found the Barbirolli version in the library, it was on vinyl and I made a tape copy, so it really had a less than ideal sound quality, and I didn't listen to it as much as I would have a CD as a result. Since I've finally gotten it on CD, which was less than half a year ago, I think I only listened to it twice. So yes, it just might be time to listen again with open ears... maybe my perception of it is still "clouded" by the version I'm more familiar with! I've collected a few recordings by Barbirolli over time and I certainly can say that all of them sound very nice to me. When I compared the two versions of "Finlandia" (as mentioned above), I found the Barbirolli version to have a certain kind of "raw passion", which indeed reminded me of Mike's music. It seemed less polished than the other version, but certainly more powerful. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 03 2008, 19:58 Holger, I suspect that if it didn't make a greater impression on you initially, it probably won't. I suspect Mike was probably overstating the case, so that anyone who sought out the fifth would  be sure to latch on to the Barbirolli. Still, there are some conductors who really do make works sound boring. I always avoid Claudio Abbado and Antal Dorati,for example. Anyway, we know, of course, some of the other works/composers Mike likes: there's the Bach Suite excerpt on QE2, the Praetorius arrangement on "Cuckoo" (the other movements of the suite are much livelier - one of them is very similar in feel to the Elizabethan section on "Taurus 2"), and Rachmaninov (Amarok). No doubt there are others.... Back to top

Dave L Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 03 2008, 23:34 Quote (Holger @ April 01 2008, 03:42) Listened to the Karelia Suite yesterday - very lovely indeed! It'll definitely get more spins. I love Karelia Suite, I first heard the Intermezzo many many many years ago when it was the theme tune for an ITV current Affairs programme called 'This Week'. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=GGc-rrHeHTE (see the Spheres! ) Can't say that I recognize any Sibelius in MoTS though... much as I love them both. I'll certainly be listening out for it in future though. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 04 2008, 02:13 Dave, it's just "The Tempest" that reminds me of "Night Ride and Sunrise". I agree that there's little other resemblance to Sibelius. Back to top

trcanberra Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: April 04 2008, 05:34 Quote (nightspore @ April 04 2008, 02:13) Dave, it's just "The Tempest" that reminds me of "Night Ride and Sunrise". I agree that there's little other resemblance to Sibelius. Hmm - I hear a bit of Dvorak now and then - anyone else? Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 04 2008, 08:34 Actually, if I had to pick one composer for a resemblance with Mike, it would be Janacek. Both have a flair for short, intensely beautiful melodic phrases, sudden contrasts, and unusual instrument combinations. A listen to, for example, the first few minutes of Janacek's "Taras Bulba" will show what I mean! Back to top

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