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larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1764 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Nov. 25 2007, 16:21 Quote (Sweetpea @ Nov. 25 2007, 14:22) Quote (captainjjb @ Nov. 24 2007, 18:36) It has aged very badly indeed - I think it is one of his worst albums of all. What do you mean by "aged very badly", captainjjb? If you mean that Amarok is 'dated', I disagree - only the Thatcheresque monologue marks the piece as being of it's time. But perhaps you only meant that the album's appeal for you has lessened dramatically through the years? I don't think Amarok is as fantastic as many others do, but the only thing about it that I think has aged badly is the early 90s crystal-clear state-of-the-art digital sound that makes the instruments sound too separated. Ommadawn II it isn't. There's a playfullness and restlessness to Amarok that puts it worlds apart from Ommadawn. Not wanting to speculate about Mike's drug use (which I know too little about to draw conclustions) I think it's like the difference between valium and cocaine. 1990 was Maggie Thatcher's last year as prime minister. Is this a coincidence? Spooky!   -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

Marky Group: Members Posts: 390 Joined: Sep. 2005 Posted: Nov. 26 2007, 09:56 Quote (TOBY @ June 04 2004, 18:10) Anybody who works in the music buisness will tell you that playing live often is the biggest key to success. ... As I said earlier had he played live and kept his profile up it would have been different for him. Had some imagination been put into promoting it, and yes Virgin could have and should have done that, it would have made it's mark in some way I'm sure. My "tourography" on the Dark Star site argues that Mike's european success derives mainly from his extensive tours between 79-84, so I agree with what you say: he charted in the UK top 20 in the UK with 5MO, Crises and Discovery in this period and there was Moonlight Shadow of course. His visibility was high. Then he went away (tax reasons started it) and since then, its been harder, with the obvious exceptions of TB2 and TB3. I thought Guitars had a chance with the tour then but this tour was the exception to the rule for some reason. With Amarok, I think it makes the case that Mike's instrumental music is difficult to peg for marketing purposes. There must be something that can be done but its harder than for most categorisable music. That's why MOTS has a chance: its in a known genre and can be promoted to a specific researched market. Mike's potential record buyers /fans don't form a coherent base. Reaching them isn't easy. He's probably the most difficult artist to promote given his historical commercial success.  This is probably why many instrumental composers do film music and commissions to keep them going. I wrote a piece called Undiscovered Masterpieces for Q magazine a few years ago and suggested a regular slot for lesser known great albums and drafted a review of Amarok for it. Didn't get anywhere of course. Music journalists are the ultimate in subjectivity which is why they can create and write off careers and why people like Simon Cowell (spit now) exist. Rant over. Carry me back to the monastery. Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Nov. 26 2007, 16:04 Quote (Matt @ Nov. 24 2007, 22:13) Weird how you can become so interested in how other people are going to react to a piece of music. I would also love to know what Imhotep thought of Amarok. And moonchildhippy, I love that you are still trying to connect with Amarok. That feeling that there is something you are missing that others already *get* (I have the same with ommadawn. I know others love it but I don't get it yet    ). I'll try and connect with Amarok if I'm in the right sort of mood to.  I haven't tried it for a little while, but I think it depends on how I feel at the time.   Keep trying with Ommadawn Marky it's beautiful, mind blowingly fantastic     .  I got Ommadawn from myu first hearing of it. -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Nov. 26 2007, 16:26 Quote (larstangmark @ Nov. 25 2007, 20:21) Quote (Sweetpea @ Nov. 25 2007, 14:22) Quote (captainjjb @ Nov. 24 2007, 18:36) It has aged very badly indeed - I think it is one of his worst albums of all. What do you mean by "aged very badly", captainjjb? If you mean that Amarok is 'dated', I disagree - only the Thatcheresque monologue marks the piece as being of it's time. But perhaps you only meant that the album's appeal for you has lessened dramatically through the years? I don't think Amarok is as fantastic as many others do, but the only thing about it that I think has aged badly is the early 90s crystal-clear state-of-the-art digital sound that makes the instruments sound too separated. Ommadawn II it isn't. There's a playfullness and restlessness to Amarok that puts it worlds apart from Ommadawn. Not wanting to speculate about Mike's drug use (which I know too little about to draw conclustions) I think it's like the difference between valium and cocaine. 1990 was Maggie Thatcher's last year as prime minister. Is this a coincidence? Spooky!   I agree Lars, I don't think Amarok is fantastic, nor do I consider it to be bad.  It's just I don't quite know what to make of it   . I agree that Amarok isn't Ommadawn II, apart from featuring Jabula and Clogdah Simmons, but musically to my ears it has very little in common with Ommadawn. When I first bought Amarok I was expecting Ommadawn II ,a s I'd read on here that Amarok is Ommadawn II, but putting it into my car CD player for the first hearing (My now ex husband didn't share my enthusiasm for Mike) I thought this sounds NOTHING like Ommadawn     .  I do feel that Ommadawn has a playfulness about it , with the On Horseback ending.   It would be interesting to know a little more about Mike's state of mind when he recorded both Ommadawn and also Amarok. From what I've read in interviews given by Mike the early to mid 70's were troubled times for him.  I often wonder with Ommadawn how sometimes the same section of music can have me in tears or with a great big smile on my face. -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1764 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Nov. 26 2007, 17:32 Quote (moonchildhippy @ Nov. 26 2007, 16:26) I agree that Amarok isn't Ommadawn II, apart from featuring Jabula and Clogdah Simmons, but musically to my ears it has very little in common with Ommadawn. When I first bought Amarok I was expecting Ommadawn II ,a s I'd read on here that Amarok is Ommadawn II, but putting it into my car CD player for the first hearing (My now ex husband didn't share my enthusiasm for Mike) I thought this sounds NOTHING like Ommadawn     .  I do feel that Ommadawn has a playfulness about it , with the On Horseback ending.   It would be interesting to know a little more about Mike's state of mind when he recorded both Ommadawn and also Amarok. From what I've read in interviews given by Mike the early to mid 70's were troubled times for him.  I often wonder with Ommadawn how sometimes the same section of music can have me in tears or with a great big smile on my face. Apart from a few cheerful moments (the upbeat middle section of pt 1 + horseback) I think Ommadawn is really solemn and heavy. What is remarkable about is that it doesn't become neither sentimental or overbearing, although it propably should (if you know what I mean). About the "Ommadawn II" thing, I was sceptical. Mike's last attempt at a long instrumental piece ("Wind Chimes") hadn't impressed me much. And Amarok did sound a bit like the Wind Chimes, but it had better melodies and less synthesizers and I thought it was OK. The real disappointment for me came with TBII (and then TSODE). It reminded me of that expression "be careful with what you wish for"; I actually prefer Mike's 80s experimentation with pop songs over his eventuall "return to his roots", which I thought wasn't very good. Chonrologically Amarok is an oddity. It's a one-off squeezed in between two pop albums. It's a sibling to "The Lake" and "The Wind Chimes", but there is no other MO album that is comparable to it. -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1980 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Jan. 09 2008, 02:06 Sorry to say I can't stand Amarok. I was unaware of it's existance until around 2000. When I found out about it, I bought a way overpriced import CD. It started out well for a minute or two....up until the running and breathing. Then it just fell apart into an hour of complete nonsense. I never play it. Probably never will again. But I will say it was recorded extremely well. This one and Heavens Open have so much dynamic range, it's irritating. They need to be compressed somewhat. Jim -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Ray Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: Jan. 2000 Posted: Jan. 10 2008, 17:00 Quote (moonchildhippy @ Nov. 26 2007, 21:04) I have the same with ommadawn. I know others love it but I don't get it yet. Try listening to it in the dark, (optionally - in a remote forest in the middle of Scotland in winter! Ray -------------- Looking out over the harbour in Peel....... Back to top

Ray Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: Jan. 2000 Posted: Jan. 10 2008, 17:07 Quote (Scatterplot @ Jan. 09 2008, 07:06) Sorry to say I can't stand Amarok. I was unaware of it's existance until around 2000. When I found out about it, I bought a way overpriced import CD. It started out well for a minute or two....up until the running and breathing. Then it just fell apart into an hour of complete nonsense. I never play it. Probably never will again. I think the album cover story covers all this, people are supposed to either 'get it' or 'not get it', that is part of the majic of Amarok. It's like being colour blind - it's not that you cant see what people who are not colour blind can see, you actually see something completely different.  So if you are Amarok Blind or Ommadawn blind you don't see it, but if you are not you do. THe blind ones are refered to as Cloth Eared Nincompoops.  Youy can tell that this is premeditated by the fact it is one the album cover.  Very Clever. Ray   -------------- Looking out over the harbour in Peel....... Back to top

Ebony Group: Members Posts: 172 Joined: June 2007 Posted: Jan. 10 2008, 20:15 Quote (Scatterplot @ Jan. 09 2008, 07:06) Sorry to say I can't stand Amarok. I was unaware of it's existance until around 2000. When I found out about it, I bought a way overpriced import CD. It started out well for a minute or two....up until the running and breathing. Then it just fell apart into an hour of complete nonsense. I never play it. Probably never will again. I would say give it another listen, as I didn't get it the first time either.  In fact I think it was on the third listen that it all seemed to fit together and became the Amarok I love, rather than the "intriguingly weird" album of my first two listens. But the difference is I liked it from the very beginning, even though it didn't seem to make any sort of musical sense.  If you can't stand it then I don't foresee much gain in a repeated listening.  But you never know.  And as it's one of my favourite MO albums I feel I should be fighting its corner and saying don't give up on it... Don't give up on it!  At least not after only one listen.  It may surprise you. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1980 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Jan. 11 2008, 02:17 Well I guess I'm more of an Ommadawn type of guy. I'll give Amarok another listen in the car this weekend. One thing that irritated me was the use of samplers...."hap-hap-hap-hap-happy"....etc. This was a fairly new technology in 1990 and everybody was doing it. I knew a guy in 1987 who bought one of the first primitive samplers, an ensoniq mirage. They were kind of fun since they were fresh and new...but a lot of bands/artists did s-s-s-s-silly things with them. By Tubular Bells 2, which I loved, the  use of samples on that album was very tastfull, nice guitar samples etc.     What is interesting about Amarok is that Mike Oldfield is the perfect guy to study if you want to watch the timeline of technology. If you study up on a classical composer, -yawn-, from 200 years ago, there's not much as far as technology to study. What, if anything changed in that composer's lifetime? Small improvements in the wood used to make violins, etc.?But when you can study someone from 1973 to 2007....you can see the invention of midi in 1983, the digital age coming to life,  loop-based software, on and on. The cheezy but cool Roland drum machine used on QE2 and Genesis "Duke" and many others....the most exciting era in music to be in. To me what Amarok was...a kind of experimental album having fun with new stuph. It's not a matter of "getting" it. It's just a matter of wanting it. Right now I'm in a Voyager mood. Jim -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Jan. 11 2008, 07:04 One recommendation I can make, if the dynamics in Amarok annoy you: listen to the track Like Herod, by Mogwai. In comparison, Amarok will sound like an ambient album by Brian Eno. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Navaira Group: Members Posts: 481 Joined: Jan. 2005 Posted: June 04 2008, 06:47 My first listen to Amarok made me think the very bad review I read of it was correct and that it was Mike's contractual obligation album -- just a pile of poo to get out of the Virgin contract. Now it's my favourite Mike album and one of the three favourite albums by anyone ever. It took a few listens... 200 or so (no, not really, I was sold after the third listen, the remaining 197 were for pure pleasure) -------------- http://www.raygrant.com :: My album 'Exorcism' is out on iTunes now Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: June 04 2008, 07:47 Quote (raven4x4x @ June 04 2004, 06:16) Somehow I almost like the idea of having a special fantastic album only heard by Mike Oldfield fans. It's almost like a secret club: we've all commited to joining and we are rewarded with the most amazing music you could possably want. It kind of makes you feel powerful in a way. More seriously, it is a strange phenomenon, and rather unfortunate too in a way. It makes me think of all the people who would love the album but have no idea that it exists. It also makes me think of all the albums that I might really really love but I have never heard of. If you think the situation is bad with Amarok compare its status with that marvelous piece of music that forms the climax to the gravitar quest in Maestro. Being a Mike Oldfield fan isn't enough to give that piece of music to you; you also have to enjoy VR games, have the persistence to learn how the Maestro game works and then the patience to complete the quest! To those who may have thought that this piece is simply 'Sunset' from Light and Shade - think again. It's a very different piece. Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: June 04 2008, 18:26 Quote (Scatterplot @ Jan. 11 2008, 06:17) Well I guess I'm more of an Ommadawn type of guy. I'll give Amarok another listen in the car this weekend. One thing that irritated me was the use of samplers...."hap-hap-hap-hap-happy"....etc. This was a fairly new technology in 1990 and everybody was doing it. I knew a guy in 1987 who bought one of the first primitive samplers, an ensoniq mirage. They were kind of fun since they were fresh and new...but a lot of bands/artists did s-s-s-s-silly things with them. By Tubular Bells 2, which I loved, the  use of samples on that album was very tastfull, nice guitar samples etc.     What is interesting about Amarok is that Mike Oldfield is the perfect guy to study if you want to watch the timeline of technology. If you study up on a classical composer, -yawn-, from 200 years ago, there's not much as far as technology to study. What, if anything changed in that composer's lifetime? Small improvements in the wood used to make violins, etc.?But when you can study someone from 1973 to 2007....you can see the invention of midi in 1983, the digital age coming to life,  loop-based software, on and on. The cheezy but cool Roland drum machine used on QE2 and Genesis "Duke" and many others....the most exciting era in music to be in. To me what Amarok was...a kind of experimental album having fun with new stuph. It's not a matter of "getting" it. It's just a matter of wanting it. Right now I'm in a Voyager mood. Jim I agree Jim I'm definitely an Ommadawn type of gal .  I think my thing with Amarok is I want to try and give it a chance when I'm in the mood, but the thing that puts me off is this thought that I really feel as if I should like or love it. I want to like or love it, but when I have that expectation that puts me off in my attempts     . Yep I would agree that music recording technology, and also playback  has come a long way within the last 50 years or so, I would agree that Mike would be a perfect recording atrist to study with regards to changing technology. -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

Ray Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: Jan. 2000 Posted: June 04 2008, 18:53 Quote (Scatterplot @ Jan. 11 2008, 07:17) It's not a matter of "getting" it. It's just a matter of wanting it. Right now I'm in a Voyager mood. Jim Want it - get it! Never mind.......         -------------- Looking out over the harbour in Peel....... Back to top

InsideOfYou Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: July 2010 Posted: Aug. 26 2010, 08:51 I first bought and heard Amarok on cassette and can confirm that the cut-off on side one is almost at the exact 30:00 mark. Except that there is no side one!! or side two for that matter!! the print on each side of the tape had all the usual details except this. Because I had a bit of a preference for 'side two' I took of of those dinky little stickers that come with blank tapes and stuck in the vacant right hand corner instead. I suspect it was part of Mike's concept of the album, along with the single track CD. (In 1990 cassette was the best selling music format - Roxette put out a 'cassingle' only release around this time and it went to number in the U.S.). I listened to it for years on my Nakamichi 480 and out-and-about on my Sony 'Pro-Walkman' and it always thrilled me to bits. I count myself lucky to have gotten into this album the traditional way, in hi-fi analogue sound and with proper 'intermissions'   I agree the CD has way too much dynamic range that is not pleasant or comfortable to hear, along with "Heaven's Open" (which I also love..) These days I mostly listen to it on 192kbps MP3.  The Sony 3348 digital recorder that Mike was using at the time does have a glassy, sharp edge to it's signature. Later on came ADAT and Protools etc. which don't have this sound but are worse in my opinion.     If you want to hear recording perfection from Mike IMO (I'm not talking about quality of the music or production values, just how the audio sounds) then that would be "Islands" and "Earth Moving", which were both Dolby SR analogue recordings - crisp, dynamic and sweet btw, the LP isn't much cop, it was put out at a time when labels had start to give up on vinyl, so the pressing quality wasn't great. And of course 30 mins on an LP side is well below an optimum cut. How about an audiophile 180 gram reissue in a gatefold sleeve with the album spread of four sides? Side A: 00:00 to around 15:58 , Side B 15:59 to 30:00, Side C 30:01 to about 44:18, Side D 44:19 to end ? That would be something   Back to top

Incantations Group: Members Posts: 157 Joined: May 2010 Posted: Aug. 29 2010, 01:09 My 'strategy' to say, of 'getting' music, which works especially well with Amarok (as well with an oft' misunderstood Jethro Tull album, A Passion Play) is I find bits and pieces of the song or album that I find interesting, which gives me something to anticipate on repeated listenings, on the repeated listenings I find more, and more, and eventually love the whole thing. 100th post.       -------------- Hmm... Back to top

Delfín Group: Members Posts: 667 Joined: Nov. 2000 Posted: Jan. 07 2011, 19:22 Quote (Incantations @ Aug. 29 2010, 07:09) My 'strategy' to say, of 'getting' music, which works especially well with Amarok (as well with an oft' misunderstood Jethro Tull album, A Passion Play) is I find bits and pieces of the song or album that I find interesting, which gives me something to anticipate on repeated listenings, on the repeated listenings I find more, and more, and eventually love the whole thing. 100th post.       Incantations, it's funny you should say that, as that is what I did with my first mike's record: 'Incantations'. My dad bought me 'Discovery' on 1984 and he had 'Incantations' in his collection. I was 11 then and was a bit too much for me to listen to a double instrumental album. I rememeber I heard parts of it a couple of times but I didn't find anything on it. Then, a bit later on I came back to it and I picked the flute and then trumpets theme as one I really liked. Then it was only the first side. Then, I heard the beginning of side two, the reversed trumpets tune played with ocarina synthesiser sound, and a bit later it was the whole album. Now I find 'Incantations' amongst the best 5 in Mike's album collection for sure. But I think Scatterplot should tell us about that car listen of Amarok, and the subsequent ones. Hope it came down well!! -------------- The most precious thing I possess, is knowing the answer's yes Back to top

Hastengas Group: Members Posts: 319 Joined: Nov. 2010 Posted: Jan. 08 2011, 11:16 Amarok certainly in his best 5 albums released so far....I'm certain the best is still yet to come. Back to top

trcanberra Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Jan. 15 2011, 05:14 Quote (Hastengas @ Jan. 08 2011, 11:16) Amarok certainly in his best 5 albums released so far....I'm certain the best is still yet to come. Nice thought for the new year - I'm with this one. Back to top

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