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Topic: Tapping Emotions, Does the music move you?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Aug. 07 2007, 02:41

I was wallowing in "Wild Goose Flaps Its Wings" (Voyager), and "Jungle Gardenia" (The Complete Mike Oldfield), and it occurred to me that one of the reasons I find MO music addictive is my emotional response to it. I find "WGFIW", by turns, frightening and soothing, and the sense of longing I get from "JG" almost makes me weepy.

There is also a moment in MO music that makes me laugh out loud - the 38:53 mark of Amarok. For some reason, that drill/engine sound just tickles me.


(PS: I've had a bit too much chocolate tonight.)


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"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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ImAFoolAndImLaughing Offline




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Posted: Aug. 07 2007, 03:14

Hi Sweatpea,

An interesting thread you've started! Personally, I find Jungle Gardenia very calming - I find the slow percussion and drawn-out guitars very soothing.

There are only three pieces of music that have ever made me feel weepy. One was Comptine D'un Autre Ete by Yann Tiersen, which you'll have heard if ever you've seen the film Amelie. The other two were the part I finale of Ommadawn - which remains one of the most intense pieces of music I've ever experienced - and the very end of Amarok.

I don't know why Amarok moves me in such a profound way - I can listen to most of it without feeling very much at all, but it's like being immersed in another world, without realising it, getting to know the characters and landscapes intimately - and then, suddenly - when the last chord dies away, I feel such a sense of grief and loss, and I just want to cry...

Wierd, innit?  :p

Um... pieces of Mike's music that make me feel happy...? The monkey-style chanting in The Wind Chimes; That brief, but perfectly placed saxophone solo in the middle of MFTB; Top Of The Morning; Shine; and The morris men section of Taurus II, which made me laugh out loud, the first time I heard it!


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"I was in this prematurely air conditioned supermarket and there were these bathing caps you could buy that had these kind of Fourth of July plumes on them that were red and yellow and blue and I wasn't tempted to buy one but I was reminded of the fact that I had been avoiding the beach."
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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Aug. 07 2007, 13:10

Tony wrote:
Quote
I find Jungle Gardenia very calming - I find the slow percussion and drawn-out guitars very soothing.

I agree, Tony. And for some reason it strikes me as quite wistful, as well. I imagine it as a sort of 1950s sad love song.

Quote
There are only three pieces of music that have ever made me feel weepy. One was Comptine D'un Autre Ete by Yann Tiersen, which you'll have heard if ever you've seen the film Amelie.

That's one of my favorite films, and I love the soundtrack. "Comptine D'un Autre Ete" is a gorgeous piece.

Quote
The other two were the part I finale of Ommadawn - which remains one of the most intense pieces of music I've ever experienced

I feel the same way.

Quote
- and the very end of Amarok.

I don't know why Amarok moves me in such a profound way - I can listen to most of it without feeling very much at all, but it's like being immersed in another world, without realising it, getting to know the characters and landscapes intimately - and then, suddenly - when the last chord dies away, I feel such a sense of grief and loss, and I just want to cry...

Wierd, innit?  :p

It's interesting that you mentioned "getting to know the characters and landscapes intimately". The fact that there are several themes weaving in and out, becoming familiar, throughout the piece, makes what is initially a challenging listen into a very rewarding experience. I don't recall getting weepy to this music because mostly it cheers me up. There are many moments in Amarok that make me feel happy - joyous even.

Quote
Um... pieces of Mike's music that make me feel happy...? The monkey-style chanting in The Wind Chimes; That brief, but perfectly placed saxophone solo in the middle of MFTB; Top Of The Morning; Shine; and The morris men section of Taurus II, which made me laugh out loud, the first time I heard it!

I must listen to "The Wind Chimes" again. I haven't played Islands much since getting it several weeks ago. Can you please remind me what "MFTB" is? I probably should know, but I'm drawing a blank. I have yet to hear "Shine" and I am unfamiliar with 'Morris Men' music. In which section of "Taurus II" is that?


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"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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ImAFoolAndImLaughing Offline




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Posted: Aug. 07 2007, 18:49

Hello again sweatpea (apologies for the mistaken identity earlier - goodness knows what I was thinking... :/ )

MFTB is an abbreviation for Music From The Balcony - the instrumental piece at the end of the Heaven's Open album - if you can get past all the stark changes in pace and tone, and the silly monkey noises, it's actually a really fascinating listen - even if, as some people suggest, it was just a piece of "joke music" to piss off Branson...

The "morris men" sequence is the one that starts about 6 minutes and 12 seconds into Taurus II, and ends at around the eight minute mark. In the Sleeve notes on the LP of Five Miles Out, they included a photostat of Mike's handwritten notes for the structure of Taurus II - and he called this particular bit "Morris Men"... :D


--------------
"I was in this prematurely air conditioned supermarket and there were these bathing caps you could buy that had these kind of Fourth of July plumes on them that were red and yellow and blue and I wasn't tempted to buy one but I was reminded of the fact that I had been avoiding the beach."
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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Aug. 08 2007, 18:19

Tony wrote:
Quote
Hello again sweatpea (apologies for the mistaken identity earlier - goodness knows what I was thinking... :/ )

No problem. I just figured it was a case of either:

a) meaning to type "Pea" rather than "Bee", but just happening to slip five keys over whilst expressing the vowel sound phonetically, or...

b) my post being unusually (for me) well-written causing you to actually mistake me for Bee, in which case I should feel flattered.

Quote
MFTB is an abbreviation for Music From The Balcony - the instrumental piece at the end of the Heaven's Open album - if you can get past all the stark changes in pace and tone, and the silly monkey noises, it's actually a really fascinating listen - even if, as some people suggest, it was just a piece of "joke music" to piss off Branson...

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I'm still a little scared of that piece. One of these days, I'll pump myself up for another go at giving it a proper listen.

Quote
The "morris men" sequence is the one that starts about 6 minutes and 12 seconds into Taurus II, and ends at around the eight minute mark. In the Sleeve notes on the LP of Five Miles Out, they included a photostat of Mike's handwritten notes for the structure of Taurus II - and he called this particular bit "Morris Men"...

I like that part! So that is a take on traditional Morris music? I must sound incredibly uninformed but all I know about Morris dancing is that it was one of A.J. Rimmer's hobbies. :laugh:


(ETA: Best wishes on your birthday, Tony.)


--------------
"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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ImAFoolAndImLaughing Offline




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Posted: Aug. 09 2007, 02:26

Quote
(ETA: Best wishes on your birthday, Tony.)



Awww - Pea...  how Sweet of you! Thank you very much! :D :D :D


--------------
"I was in this prematurely air conditioned supermarket and there were these bathing caps you could buy that had these kind of Fourth of July plumes on them that were red and yellow and blue and I wasn't tempted to buy one but I was reminded of the fact that I had been avoiding the beach."
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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Aug. 17 2007, 03:28

I've been using MO music quite a lot for relaxation purposes, particularly during the late evening. I find that much of his later works (or what I think of as 'Mature MO') is conducive to the desired soothing effect. Here is my current 'relaxation' playlist (in chronological order, even):

On Horseback
Incantations Part One (edit - six minutes of "Diana, Luna, Lucina")
Jungle Gardenia
Weightless
Oceania
Only Time Will Tell
Tubular World
Celtic Rain
The Voyager
Wild Goose Flaps Its Wings
Embers
Pacha Mama
Lake Constance
No Man's Land
Return to the Origin
Daydream
Sirius
Solar System
Peace
Ambient Guitars
Angelique
Blackbird
Sunset


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"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Aug. 17 2007, 07:30

"Does the music move you?" Most definately! Of all the music I've listened to Mike continues to stand alone as my favourite musician, because his music consistantly moves me, in every possible way, more than any other artist.

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Margit Anna Offline




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Posted: Aug. 23 2007, 13:35

Though my favourite cd is Ommadawn I can't always listen to it. It is so emotional, that I feel more sad when I was sad already and then it makes me even depressed. I react similar when I listen to Tubular Bells. I only can listen to them when I am in a relaxed, happy mood.
The Song of a Distant Earth is very good for me when I am in a creative phase.
Amarok makes me laugh. It is really crazy, but still an interesting experimental piece with lots of very good parts.
I like his commercial songs when I am working or when I want to cheer up.
His latest cds are good as background music, he made lots of a music style I actually never liked. I listen to that ones also, but not as often as the older ones.

Sorry, please don't take offence. That is just my personal opinion.
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ImAFoolAndImLaughing Offline




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Posted: Aug. 23 2007, 17:47

Quote (Margit Anna @ Aug. 23 2007, 13:35)
Sorry, please don't take offence. That is just my personal opinion.

None taken, Margit! Welcome to the forums! :D

--------------
"I was in this prematurely air conditioned supermarket and there were these bathing caps you could buy that had these kind of Fourth of July plumes on them that were red and yellow and blue and I wasn't tempted to buy one but I was reminded of the fact that I had been avoiding the beach."
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Ebony Offline




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Posted: Aug. 23 2007, 20:53

Most of the music I like is of the rock/emo sort, filled with angst ridden lyrics and guitars tuned to drop-D, and played and sung by boys with long fringes and tight jeans.  And while I can relate to the songs and associate them with different situations, none of them have such a profound effect on me as the music of Mike Oldfield does.  I don't need to relate his music to a real life situation - it moves me all on it's own.
My emotional response does vary depending on the mood I'm in at the time - sometimes a piece will actually make me cry, other times I'll just be a bit melancholic.
Amarok is my catharsis.  If I'm angry, or stressed I'll listen to it and I know by the end I'll be smiling.  It's just impossible not to.
But each of the albums I've got so far has it's own mood and each one takes me someplace different.  Like miniature worlds created in music form that I can escape to for a while.
:cool:
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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2007, 01:12

Quote (raven4x4x @ Aug. 17 2007, 07:30)
Of all the music I've listened to Mike continues to stand alone as my favourite musician, because his music consistantly moves me, in every possible way, more than any other artist.

It's the same for me, raven4x4x.

Quote (Margit Anna @ Aug. 23 2007, 13:35)
Though my favourite cd is Ommadawn I can't always listen to it. It is so emotional, that I feel more sad when I was sad already and then it makes me even depressed.

I can understand that, Margit. I love Ommadawn but there are times when I just don't feel up to the experience. At worst, I can end up really bummed out, but at best I can feel intense release. You also mentioned cheering up to his songs. I happen to be listening a lot lately to "Heaven's Open" which is such a wonderful and uplifting piece. :)

Quote (Ebony @ Aug. 23 2007, 20:53)
each of the albums I've got so far has it's own mood and each one takes me someplace different.  Like miniature worlds created in music form that I can escape to for a while.

Nicely said, Ebony


--------------
"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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onion Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2007, 03:23

"Of course" Mike Oldfields music moves emotionally, thats what makes him very different from the "mainstream machine pop music" every artist (recordcompanys) seem to make, to please the crowd and thus shovel loads of money in their vault.

MO´s  music - for me anyway - ranges from almost depression over dreamy to happy..  Incantations and Hergest Ridge are for example, much to sad for me, I get in a very bad mood and thats why I never listen to them..  despite the titles, "crises" ( esp. 2 half), is so calming to me  and even though the lyrics is sad in "crime of passion" , it just give me a good feeling (properly MO´s guitar playing).
"Far above the clouds" gives me energy and good feeling and "flowers of the forest"   brings me to a dreamy place where I see a huge orchestra (spelling?)  with rows and rows of Scotsmen with bagpipes..
ohhh  I could go on and on and on (but I don´t, I need to work now  ;) )
The only album making me sick and feel the urge to vomit is "light and shade" especially "shade"  ...  (please don´t get me started on "light & shade")  ....   what a lousy album    :O

.......>>now crime of passion >>of to work>>
ciao

Mike


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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2007, 04:06

Quote (onion @ Aug. 24 2007, 03:23)
The only album making me sick and feel the urge to vomit is "light and shade" especially "shade"  ...  (please don´t get me started on "light & shade")  ....   what a lousy album

*sings* "Morning and evening I'm flying I'm dreaming Oh can't keep it out of my head..." *hands onion a bucket*


--------------
"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2007, 08:45

I'm one of those who believe "emotion" is not a property of music itself. Music is sound, and sound has frequency, amplitude, timbre, and so on... but not "emotion". Emotion is something the listener extracts out of the music, many times by his own will, sometimes influenced by what he considers emotional, or even by what he read and knows about the artist in question. Many artists do put their personal emotions in music, but it's not always easy to receive it just by listening to it; for example, what emotions would one receive from Autechre's Untilted, or Kraftwerk's Computer World, or Frank Zappa's Lumpy Gravy? And whatever emotion we get from that, is it really the same emotion the artist put in it? Just WHAT did Sigur Rós mean with that ( ) of theirs? Are the first four tracks really "happy"? Are the four last tracks really "sad"?

This... scepticism of mine, whatever you might believe, actually helps me in enjoying music. I am fully aware that the emotion I get from music is my own fault, and I can't accuse the artist of "not putting emotion on his music". It might be just me. And if I get emotional over a certain piece of music, heck, it might depend merely on my mood. And it does happen. To use Mike as an example, Incantations can sometimes send me flying (metaphorically! ), sometimes it's just an engaging intellectual exercise (snob! ), sometimes it's just fun. And I like it that way. Music becomes unpredictable. I can have a fun afternoon playing computer games and listening to Unknown Pleasures, by Joy Division, or Pornography, by The Cure. Insensitive, me? Maybe.

Mike Oldfield's music in general has a lot of depth, which is what I believe makes so many people feel emotionally attached to it. It can carry all sorts of meanings, and it's open to them. Yes, I know that's kind of opposite to some school of thoughts that say Mike's albums seem to be very specific. But I actually think their openness is the key. The album gives you some key points to cling on, but on the whole, they are quite vague. And so, you can have one single album that can be happy to some people and sad to others. That depth of character is what makes musicians like Mike Oldfield interesting to listen to. As much as you might not feel like it, you make the music as well. The emotions come from within you, not from him.


--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2007, 09:32

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Aug. 24 2007, 13:45)
The emotions come from within you, not from him.

In responding to this I'm aware that I'm dragging out a couple of things I've already talked about elsewhere, but anyhow, here goes. You're partly right Sir M, but there's a bigger story, I think. Two views on this seem relevant:

The first is Marcel Duchamp's, that the artist only does half the work. The other half is done by the viewer (or listener in this case). I think this is self-evident. There's nothing deader than a piece of music impinging on deaf ears, or a work of art presenting itself to blind eyes. We bring our baggage with us to the art, and can never fully lose it.

The second is Susan Langer's idea of art as a presentation of symbols of feeling. The artist constructs symbols that, he hopes, encapsulate his feelings. Given the right viewer/listener, the symbols are potentially capable of conveying those feelings to someone else. Of course the process is very hit and miss; it's not guaranteed to work. But often we do feel in our bones when it's working well. I'm thinking for instance of what seems often to happen when people go to Hergest Ridge, knowing the music. They aren't surprised by what they find. The place, and the feelings they have about it, seem strangely familiar. Now we could argue back and forth on this with little profit, but it seems to me very likely that in listening to the music these people have experienced something of MO's feelings about Hergest Ridge; that the emotions they experience may not be exactly the same as MO's (we could never know that), but that they are closely related to them in some measure. (The same sort of thing happens to an Elgar fan, on visiting the Malvern Hills. It just feels 'right'.)

I think this is one reason why the most profound musical experiences seem to have a feeling of 'truth' about them (however hard to define it may be); I suspect that in many of those instances, we really are making some connection with the feelings of the artist. That's one reason why we value art so much; it eases the pain of our existential loneliness, while still allowing us to remain ourselves.
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Margit Anna Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2007, 11:39

Quote (Sweetpea @ Aug. 24 2007, 01:12)
[

I can understand that, Margit. I love Ommadawn but there are times when I just don't feel up to the experience. At worst, I can end up really bummed out, but at best I can feel intense release. You also mentioned cheering up to his songs. I happen to be listening a lot lately to "Heaven's Open" which is such a wonderful and uplifting piece. :)

Yes, I agree, sweetpea. Heaven's Open is a very positive song, which makes you feel relaxed and happy. You are flying right into the open heaven.  :)
It is nice to see that there are so many people out there who have similar thoughts and love the same kind of music. People who understand eachother.
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Margit Anna Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2007, 12:09

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Aug. 24 2007, 08:45)
I'm one of those who believe "emotion" is not a property of music itself. Music is sound, and sound has frequency, amplitude, timbre, and so on... but not "emotion". Emotion is something the listener extracts out of the music, many times by his own will, sometimes influenced by what he considers emotional, or even by what he read and knows about the artist in question. Many artists do put their personal emotions in music, but it's not always easy to receive it just by listening to it; for example, what emotions would one receive from Autechre's Untilted, or Kraftwerk's Computer World, or Frank Zappa's Lumpy Gravy? And whatever emotion we get from that, is it really the same emotion the artist put in it? Just WHAT did Sigur Rós mean with that ( ) of theirs? Are the first four tracks really "happy"? Are the four last tracks really "sad"?

This... scepticism of mine, whatever you might believe, actually helps me in enjoying music. I am fully aware that the emotion I get from music is my own fault, and I can't accuse the artist of "not putting emotion on his music". It might be just me. And if I get emotional over a certain piece of music, heck, it might depend merely on my mood. And it does happen. To use Mike as an example, Incantations can sometimes send me flying (metaphorically! ), sometimes it's just an engaging intellectual exercise (snob! ), sometimes it's just fun. And I like it that way. Music becomes unpredictable. I can have a fun afternoon playing computer games and listening to Unknown Pleasures, by Joy Division, or Pornography, by The Cure. Insensitive, me? Maybe.

Mike Oldfield's music in general has a lot of depth, which is what I believe makes so many people feel emotionally attached to it. It can carry all sorts of meanings, and it's open to them. Yes, I know that's kind of opposite to some school of thoughts that say Mike's albums seem to be very specific. But I actually think their openness is the key. The album gives you some key points to cling on, but on the whole, they are quite vague. And so, you can have one single album that can be happy to some people and sad to others. That depth of character is what makes musicians like Mike Oldfield interesting to listen to. As much as you might not feel like it, you make the music as well. The emotions come from within you, not from him.

I disagree with you, Sir Mustafa. Sorry that you don't feel what some music tells you. Some people (Mike Oldfield is one of them) are able to talk with their instruments. These musicians are musicians with their hearts, they believe in what they are doing and they often can say more with their music than with simple words.
For example you are writing a story, and you are in a very bad personal situation, would you be able to write a funny story? I don't think so. If you would try it in that bad mood, any attempt to be funny would sound like a sarcastic remark.  
When I am sad, I am humming a sad tune. When I am happy, I am singing happy songs. And musicians do the same, they are not always in a good mood when they are creative. It is often so, that music is their way to express themselves.
Off course, there are also musicians who make music for money only.
Kraftwerk made a very stereotype music. How can you get emotions when you are listening to a computer tune. Everone who is able to use music programms on the computer can play that tunes in the same way. But it is not so easy to play a song on the guitar with the same intensity and feeling, like Mike Oldfield does. You would always notice the difference, if you tried.
I agree that we have our own emotions when we listen to his music. We won't have the same emotions like he had when he played them, but we feel that he was telling us something. Whatever emotions everyone of us gets by listening to his various music, it is nice to feel something.
I don't know if you understand what I want to say.  :laugh:
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onion Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2007, 13:16

Quote (Sweetpea @ Aug. 24 2007, 10:06)
*sings* "Morning and evening I'm flying I'm dreaming Oh can't keep it out of my head..." *hands onion a bucket*

Ohhhh now you´ve donnit!!!

Normally I would track you down and hunt you with a 18 ton semi-truck for that stunt, but even for a pea you´re such a peach so it ain't gonna happen   :D

But consider this as first warning, if you mention light & shade again, I will cut you out of my will!     :p

Mike


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2007, 14:15

I understand what you say and where you're coming from, Margit (at least, I believe I am). We come from different schools of thought, I guess, and both seem to work for each of us individually. Still, I do have my personal conceptions on what listening to music means and is. What I meant to say is that I don't doubt there is a side of "feeling the music" and what the artist meant with it, but the listener needs to have a willingness to "fall" for that, initially, however subconscious it might be. And even then, our idea of what the artist meant might be completely wrong! How are we ever going to check that out without reading about the artist, and the circumstances under which his art was made?

Quote
For example you are writing a story, and you are in a very bad personal situation, would you be able to write a funny story? I don't think so. If you would try it in that bad mood, any attempt to be funny would sound like a sarcastic remark.


I have written stories before, and I have to say it's perfectly possible for one to write comedy while in a bad state of mind. It's a bit misleading to mention specifically comedy, which is one of the most difficult things to write - but, for examples, I have written rather dramatic and dark stories while living very pleasant moments, and it has been likewise with several people I know.

Quote
Kraftwerk made a very stereotype music. How can you get emotions when you are listening to a computer tune.


What's the core difference between a piece played on an electric guitar and a piece played on a synthesizer, other than the instrument it's played in? Both require talent and skill, and you can be equally expressive with both; or can't you? Both require electronic circuits, both are hand played... There's no difference. I mentioned Kraftwerk specifically to be annoying, but I'll use Autechre, instead: Amber is an album which, in my opinion, has much more depth and atmosphere than Mike Oldfield's entire output since Tubular Bells II, and I get honest, heartfelt emotions out of it when I'm in the right mood.

Quote
Everone who is able to use music programms on the computer can play that tunes in the same way. But it is not so easy to play a song on the guitar with the same intensity and feeling, like Mike Oldfield does. You would always notice the difference, if you tried.


It's not like that. The computer doesn't act according to its own will. It doesn't produce music on its own. Knowing how the software works, how the sounds are generated and altered, and how to manipulate that can be every bit as challenging as learning how to manipulate a guitar. Just as a synthesizer can be performed in a mediocre, automatic manner, so can a guitar. The power of expression of instruments don't depend on how difficult they are to play. If that was the case, a violin would always sound invariably better than a piano, and you wouldn't want to tell that to Beethoven if you valued your life...

In the end, what I'm saying is that emotion can't be measured. Emotion doesn't exist in the sound; it's external. It's like the cultural significance of a piece of music. When you write music, you write notes, chords, melodies, but not emotion - and that's true for synthesizers, guitars, pianos, etc.. The perceived emotion in music is the product of a much grander scheme of things, which also involves the listener.


--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Mike Oldfield Tubular.net
Mike Oldfield Tubular.net