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Olivier Group: Super Admins Posts: 1865 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: June 02 2002, 11:50 Guitar sounding like saxophone, keyboard sounding like guitar, guitar sounding like drums, singers miming, etc. We know that Mike likes a lot surrealism. Maybe his way to do things that go against nature in his music is some kind of musical surrealism? Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: June 02 2002, 21:09 AFAIK surrealism, more than doing unnatural things, consists in combinin' real, natural elements in impossible, unnatural, unreal combinations... that's what Magritte did in lots of his paintings. So, yes, a guitar soundin' like a sax or like drums is a form of very-well-done musical surrealism. PS: And what about the flyin' instruments (Fender guitar and vertical piano) in MVR? I think those are pure Magritte. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: June 03 2002, 20:51 To swing off topic a little... I think the Tubular Bells cover is rather like something by Magritte - he occasionally painted things floating in the air above sea like that, and also often painted bells (though round bells rather than tubular). As for the examples in his music, I'd think it's more the result of his self sufficient musical way of working, and his way of controlling things. Back to top

tubularbills Group: Members Posts: 528 Joined: Aug. 2000 Posted: June 22 2002, 11:56 TSODE is the most surreal album. it just don't get any more peaceful/inspiring/awesome and uplifting than that. -------------- Terrible, Wonderful, Crazy, Perfect. Back to top

ex member 337 Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 33 Joined: May 2000 Posted: June 23 2002, 18:49 Amarok is Oldfield at his most surreall, it brought back the energy his music was lacking at that time. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: June 26 2002, 06:14 The starp of Tubular Bells II 'part 2', with Weightless, Sunset Door and that is pretty surreal. I'll think of mere later. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

oblique Group: Members Posts: 411 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: June 26 2002, 13:12 Apart from all these instruments sounding different as expected, there are the tunes that can be surprising. IMHO the best example being The Trap. Now there's surrealism forya... -------------- "While we are alive we should sit among colored lights and taste good wines, and discuss our adventures in far places; when we are dead, the opportunity is past." - Jack Vance Back to top

tubularbills Group: Members Posts: 528 Joined: Aug. 2000 Posted: June 30 2002, 12:02 i also agree w/ raven4x4x that the beginning of part of on TB2 is pretty surreal. to bad the rest of part two couldn't stay that way (well, Maya Gold is i guess, but the other tracks aren't). -------------- Terrible, Wonderful, Crazy, Perfect. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: July 09 2002, 04:51 I don't know about surreal, but Altered State is pretty unreal! All of Mikes work is a certain surrealism compared to normal 'popular' works. That's one of the reasons I like his work so much. Back to top

tubularbills Group: Members Posts: 528 Joined: Aug. 2000 Posted: July 09 2002, 12:41 yes i do agree. Altered State is just a little too "Altered" for my liking. -------------- Terrible, Wonderful, Crazy, Perfect. Back to top

Sweetpea Group: Members Posts: 1476 Joined: April 2007 Posted: July 26 2007, 15:48 Quote (raven4x4x @ June 26 2002, 06:14) The starp of Tubular Bells II 'part 2', with Weightless, Sunset Door and that is pretty surreal. I'll think of mere later. I played those sections to see if I agree about their surrealism, raven4x4x. Since I wasn't sure I understood the term 'surrealism' properly, I sought help from Merriam-Webster: "the principles, ideals, or practice of producing fantastic or incongruous imagery or effects in art, literature, film, or theater by means of unnatural or irrational juxtapositions and combinations". I can't say I see anything unnatural or irrational there. The definition of 'surrealistic', however, includes "having a strange dreamlike atmosphere or quality" and I definitely see that in "Weightless". Quote I don't know about surreal, but Altered State is pretty unreal!  I love "Altered State", but I understand some think it's a little silly? I don't mind silliness, especially when the music is so spirited. -------------- "I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty Back to top

jonnyw Group: Members Posts: 522 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: July 26 2007, 16:03 I studied Surrealist filmaking for two years.. and our definition of it was more or less "Dreamlike"... I do love René Magritte and Salvador Dali's canvas work however, - maybe there is a subconscious link there.... -------------- Grand piano. Reed and pipe organ. Glockenspeil. Bass guitar. Vocal chords. Two slightly sampled electric guitars. The venitian effect. Digital sound processor. And Tubular bells. Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: July 26 2007, 16:41 One of the things I've said from time to time about the Tr3sLunas landscapes and visual sequences is that I feel that they've often been hinted at in his music - as if much of what is seen in Tr3s Lunas has a kind of parallel with what is heard in his music (I mean all his music, not just the TL music). I freely admit that this is just a feeling (but then surrealism is not a rational thing - it's about unusual juxtapositions made by the artist triggering subconscious responses in the viewer). There are some obvious references to Dali in Tr3s Lunas - like the creature we call the daliphant on the horizon, which seems to have a fairly direct reference to a particular Dali image. The giant sculptures of Mike's head have a Dali/Magritte kind of aspect to them - and so on. One of the characteristics of surreal imagery is that you can find yourself really deeply moved and/or unsettled by it for no apparent reason (the artist effectively stimulating your neuroses, as it were - so you feel it but can't pin the feeling down, or explain where it's coming from). Now there are aspects of Mike's music that do have this effect on me, and in particular the most unsettling of all is Amarok. Those weird unexpected sounds - the smashed glass, the phone (suddenly Dali's lobster telephone pops into my mind) and so on - they are all the kind of grotesque interventions that you find in surrealist or dadaist art; except that here they are sounds, not pictures or physical constructs. So ... I think there's something in the surrealism idea. Back to top

Sweetpea Group: Members Posts: 1476 Joined: April 2007 Posted: Aug. 03 2007, 13:20 Alan D wrote: Quote surrealism is not a rational thing - it's about unusual juxtapositions made by the artist triggering subconscious responses ... you can find yourself really deeply moved and/or unsettled by it for no apparent reason One example of this, for me, is "Surfing" from Light & Shade. The first half has a hypnotic quality with its lulling vocal "Surfing, I'm surfing...", and then that trippy instrumental section came in, and it felt as if I'd suddenly been shifted three feet to the left (sort of like a 'spacial anomaly', I guess, to borrow from 'Trek' terminology). It was unsettling and thrilling. -------------- "I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Aug. 03 2007, 18:10 Quote (Alan D @ July 26 2007, 20:41) One of the characteristics of surreal imagery is that you can find yourself really deeply moved and/or unsettled by it for no apparent reason (the artist effectively stimulating your neuroses, as it were - so you feel it but can't pin the feeling down, or explain where it's coming from). Now there are aspects of Mike's music that do have this effect on me, and in particular the most unsettling of all is Amarok. Those weird unexpected sounds - the smashed glass, the phone (suddenly Dali's lobster telephone pops into my mind) and so on - they are all the kind of grotesque interventions that you find in surrealist or dadaist art; except that here they are sounds, not pictures or physical constructs. So ... I think there's something in the surrealism idea. Yep I'd agree that Amarok is very surreal, there's something I find rather unsettling about that album, but I can't quite put my finger on it. I think Tubular Bells as being a very surreal album, in that I'm transported to many different landscapes during the duration. The opening part I find most peaceful, despite being stolen and used in The Exorcist (I've only watched the film once, possibly as I was alone when I did watch it). I often think of the sea during the opening parts, it also has an atmospheric feel driving at night along country roads lined with trees. Other parts make me think I've entered Tolkien's World, and I'm transported to Lothlorien or The Shire, or indeed Hergest Ridge. Other parts transport me to a city, such as the Piltdown Man section, and can experience Mike's frustration, not surprising really as wasn't Mike living in a flat in Tottenham (North London) when he composed it. The Boxed version with the spoken Sailors Hornpipe males me think of The Oxfordshire countryside. I can picture  Mike, Viv Stanshall and Tom Newman's drunken/stoned 3am tramp around The Manor             . -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

bee Group: Members Posts: 1227 Joined: Jan. 2004 Posted: Aug. 03 2007, 18:28 This is a very interesting thought, Mike/Surrealism. And I really can understand the links made here. But, I'm not sure I would go as far as to say it is Surrealist music alone. I have always been drawn to the Surrealist painters and their strange & wonderful ideas. And I really get those feelings when looking at the paintings, their images lodge themselves in my memory and make me want to revisit them time and again. They are so odd, I'm thinking of Dali, & Magritte & Dorothea Tanning & Leonor Fini and Max Ernst too. But I just don't know about Mike here in quite the same respect. These paintings seem devoid of emotion. They are weird situations depicted in great clarity. I find that Amarok, as you say, Alan does have that surrealist quality ( sudden noises and peculiar sounds in odd places!! about it very much and so in many ways does Tubular Bells, but I can't honestly say that of his other work. Having said that though, those two albums do have high levels of energy & emotion for me! In the other thread on Romanticism, I could easily associate the emotional content of his earlier work, but I'm feeling more and more that it is Symbolist in nature. In Symbolist work you get the emotion through these paintings but there's a distance... a space between you and it. Somehow you can identify with it, you understand it but cannot physically feel it.  Good examples here are Caspar David Friedrich, Gustav Moreau, Edward Burne Jones & the Pre Raphaelites. The Symbolist artists portrayed their subjects in an evocative way, i.e you can clearly see what the subject is but it has this atmosphere/sensation around it that is hard to describe but completely understandable at the same time. ( Not said very well, sorry!! And the more I think of it, the more this is Mike's music for me. At times I just love listening to it, for it's own sake and then other times it gets so deep inside me - to who I am that it really moves me. It kind of points to something else, something very important. I still think there's more to all of this music than we appreciate. Music is so very important, maybe to life itself. P.S It is late & I've had a glass of wine -------------- ....second to the right and straight on till morning.... You heard me before Yet you hear me again Then I die Till I call me again Back to top

Sweetpea Group: Members Posts: 1476 Joined: April 2007 Posted: Aug. 03 2007, 21:11 Quote (bee @ Aug. 03 2007, 18:28) At times I just love listening to it, for it's own sake and then other times it gets so deep inside me - to who I am that it really moves me. It kind of points to something else, something very important. I still think there's more to all of this music than we appreciate. Music is so very important, maybe to life itself. P.S It is late & I've had a glass of wine White or red? Actually, it doesn't matter. I'd take either over this IPA here - too bitter for my taste. Seriously, each sip was inducing convulsive shudders. And not in a good way. I also enjoy art for art's sake. A simple, catchy tune can make me plenty happy. Of course, it's nice that MO-music covers a wide spectrum of the delightful & devious, and the moving & momentous. (Edited to add TMI.) -------------- "I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Aug. 04 2007, 09:16 Quote (bee @ Aug. 03 2007, 23:28) I'm not sure I would go as far as to say it is Surrealist music alone. Oh gosh, certainly not - I think one can see just from the way this thread has developed, and the variety of additional influences that you've mentioned in your post, Tracy, that Mike's music as a whole shows a multitude of aspects and influences. At different times he shows himself to be an old Romantic; a rock&roller; a folkie; a Symbolist; a Surrealist - and I daresay a whole lot of other 'ists' as well. He defies all labels, in my view. But I still think the surrealist aspect is interesting and worth digging into a bit. Context is everything in surrealism, don't you think? There's nothing disturbing about a lobster; nor about a telephone. But a lobster telephone (a la Dali) is curiously disturbing. Once seen, the image haunts us forever and we don't know why. The surrealists tinker with our consciousness, don't they? They wrong-foot our brains. It's OK to see a clock; it's OK to see something melting; but a melting clock? - that's disturbing, presumably because we see no rational link between the two ideas and our neuroses have free play. It would be quite interesting to compile a list of 'incidents' in Mike's music that have a similar effect. As I said before, I think Amarok is full of such juxtapositions. But I suspect that I'd struggle to find anything surrealistic in, say, The Songs of Distant Earth. But what about the Wind Chimes - gosh,  think of all the strange imagery in the Wind Chimes video! There's some surrealism in there, methinks, but how much of it is musical, and how much merely visual and dependent on the video, is hard to say. Suddenly this looks like a long and tough project! Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Aug. 04 2007, 17:05 @ Alan: I think that the whole of TWC is a sort of anticipation of the virtual world that would find its complete expression in Tr3s Lunas (Mike has said that he'd been trying to build a virtual world for many, many years, and indeed two or three images found in TWC are carried over, almost identical, to 3L). As such, I think TWC is not really surrealistic, but it's more like a highly stylized version of reality - a heightened reality, if you like. A bit like that new art current called Magic Realism... like in the paintings of Rob Gonsalves, which are often made up with completely real elements and yet they're immersed in a surreal mood... -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Aug. 04 2007, 17:26 Quote (Alan D @ Aug. 04 2007, 15:16) It would be quite interesting to compile a list of 'incidents' in Mike's music that have a similar effect. Just a few examples off the top of my head (there are many more of course, and this is something that has always fascinated me very much about Mike's music): - The pitch-bent bell sounds in Foreign Affair (also in one of the longer pieces, I think it might be Taurus II) - The pitch-bent panpipes in Étude - The prolonged vocal sounds at the beginning of Incantations, which I was talking about in the thread about "Romanticism" - The backwards reverb at the end of Taurus II - The drums run through a vocoder in Mirage - Indeed, all the vocoder and vocaloid stuff Quote But I suspect that I'd struggle to find anything surrealistic in, say, The Songs of Distant Earth. There's one thing I can think of right now, the pitch-bent (or rather, pitch-shifted) vocal sample in Supernova. It starts out sounding like a normal voice, but there's that weird pitch-shifting up and down at the end. Back to top

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