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CarstenKuss Group: Musicians Posts: 362 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Jan. 13 2001, 18:11 Hi tubularbills, in my listening, Sentinel has only two irregularities: one from 02:14 (see above) and a very similar one from 03:41. The rest is 4/4. Ugo's 'exceeding beats' seem to match fine with this, only I would speak of 'missing' beats. Are you sure that songbook is accurate? TB3: I can't really spot an 'extra note' there. How can there be one, if it's all 4/4? But I agree, the connection between TB and TB2 is moch closer than with TB3. -------------- -Carsten- Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 13 2001, 21:04 Some notes on the TBII songbook...I also have it... The beginning of Sentinel is 7/8 + 9/8 = 16/8 = two 4/4 bars. Then I think the songbook is inaccurate in the 4/4-2/4 part, because what I hear is a 5/4 bar in a 4/4 rhythm, at each one of the points I mentioned. Blue Saloon is 12/8 almost all the way through. The 9/8 division is wrong, IMHO. The 4/4 section is the honky-tonk one, and it stops on a half-bar for the transition to Sunjammer (not indicated in the songbook). Neither I do hear anything 'exceeding' in TB3. Maybe that's another mistake in the songbook . Oh, by the way: I also think that TB3 is not-that-connected to TB2. The only thing that connects it to the TB trilogy is its great amount of quotations from its two predecessors. Rob Miles found out all of 'em...if you want, I'll post a link to his analysis, somewhere. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

tubularbills Group: Members Posts: 528 Joined: Aug. 2000 Posted: Jan. 13 2001, 22:38 Carsten, I would hope that the book i have is accurate! What i found though, especially with the original TB, is that i don't really pay attention to the time signatures in the books, i go more by how i hear the actual music on CD. Same with TB3, there are some parts where the timing in the book doesn't match the actual music, but it does come pretty close. I try to play more by ear, rather than what is given to me. Regardless, i still think it's awesome to say i can play some of his music even if it doesn't sound 100% like it. Even 50% right is good to me! Regarding the 'extra note' in TB3, it's there but i think it balances out in every bar, so there isn't a feeling of there being something added. What's kind of cool is if you listen to the CD you can see the timing on it is perfect. Ugh! I wish i could play that good! -------------- Terrible, Wonderful, Crazy, Perfect. Back to top

CarstenKuss Group: Musicians Posts: 362 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Jan. 14 2001, 07:48 Thanks, Ugo & tubularbills. Yes, it's a great feeling, being able to play some of Mike's music. As long as it sounds right, it doesn't matter so much how you write it down. What is 7/8 + 9/8 to one person, could be 4/4 + 4/4 to another. But it's my personal opinion that the overall timing should be 100% correct. -------------- -Carsten- Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Jan. 14 2001, 18:35 It's better to have it as accurate as you can sometimes...if you're into counting while you're playing, at least. I've personally found it very confusing to think of tubular bells in anything other than the 7/8 and 9/8 that it's normally notated in (I suppose because looking at it as 4/4 means counting slower and putting things in between). I believe there are also technical reasons why it should be notated as 7/8 and 9/8 (although being honest the exact reason escapes me, leaving me with only the sound of the voice of a music teacher long ago saying something I always knew I'd never remember...). The eelements songbook notates part of it (where the little chords come in) as being in 3/4...that seemed ridiculous to me, seeing as it doesn't seem to fit that... It can be hard to write Mike's stuff out though...I got into showing a flute player how to do one piece...I started out by shouting out the notes and playing it...that didn't work...so after trying a few other methods (like just writing down the letters ) I sat down with a pencil and a load of manuscript paper and...about half an hour later I had something that was roughly like it, but still not having quite the right timing...I gave up at that point (partly because they were still playing notes that weren't actually written there...) . It's like you can write the things out like that, but it ends up just slightly too rigid. I think that Mike likes to play with the timing slightly. He often seems to play just a fraction behind the beat now, for example...something that's quite hard to describe to someone who hasn't noticed it... All I can say is...strangeness indeed. Back to top

CarstenKuss Group: Musicians Posts: 362 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Jan. 15 2001, 15:50 Yes. That's what I meant by the word 'strangeness': it's not obvious what's going on, and you can only find your way into the music by listening carefully, again and again. Interesting, your experience with the flute player, Korgscrew. BTW, when I said it's almost all 4/4, I was talking about TB2, not TB. -------------- -Carsten- Back to top

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