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QE3 Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Aug. 30 2002, 07:58 well, back to strange statements ... there are many such. like the one about tubular bells being the best album ... i find it one of his most boring ones. but didn't he say that discovery was the best one? and then millenium bell? i agree with theman; how can anyone claim millenium bell being no. 1 ? mike once said that he never listens to his albums ... well that can explain a couple of things; those statements above for example. mike then refers to the versions in his head. Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Sep. 01 2002, 02:57 I don't think there's anything remotely strange about saying TB is Mike's best or near best album. The answers obvious really. Genius Back to top

QE3 Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Sep. 03 2002, 07:54 i find it very strange and i don't understand what you mean with obvious. in no way do i agree that tubular bells is as good as ommadawn, incantations, fivemilesout, crises, discovery, amarok, the songs of distant earth. in no way do i agree that there are parts on tubular bells as good as the wind chimes, taurus i and ii, platinum title track, or the albums mentioned above. Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Sep. 04 2002, 09:06 Fair enough thats your take on it. But the general opinion of allmost everyone else in the known (Oldfield) universe is that TB is a work of near genius so therefore it should not come as any great suprise for Mike to regard it as his best album. Or at least one of his best. The fact it sold 16 million or so copies worldwide has everything to do with the fact it's one of the most beautifull pieces of contemporary music ever writen. Sorry if you don't like it, try listening to all the atmospheres it create's and all the transitions. Back to top

QE3 Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Sep. 04 2002, 09:44 the question is not if tubular bells is good or not and sure probably most fans consider it as a good album. and i expressed myself a bit careless saying that it is boring. the point is that mike also wrote many other great albums (i regard for example incantations as being on an even higher level than tubular bells). but mike does seem to forget his other albums. he just keep mentioning tubular bells and as TheMan says, why? i don't buy your explaination that tubular bells sold so much just because it was so good. comersial success has nothing to do with quality. otherwise why does madonna's records sell more than amarok??? tubular bells appeared right in time and just happened to get a lot of attention, and sure, partly because of its qualities. but no way that amarok or incantations sold so bad because they are bad works, nooooo way man!!! they are not just 'nearly' genious they are 'clearly' genious. mike probably keeps focusing on tubular bells of the simple reason that it is a famous album. and that is to some extent understandable but it is also irritating in light of his otherwise so excellent production. it is a very big difference if he regard it as 'one of his best' or 'the clearly best one'. the former is ok to be, but not the latter. Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Sep. 04 2002, 15:03 I think you're comparing apples and oranges a bit there with Madonna and Amarok. Sure Amarok is a great album but its appeal is selective, people either seem to adore it utterly or not at all. I think commercial success can be In direct relation to musical quality and In the case of Madonna its probably justifiable she has done some amazing music. And in the case of TB its justifiable to. Agreed albums like Ommadawn, Amarok, Incantations are obviously great works and demand further  consideration and attention but I think you would have to admit they're appeal is more selective, its the sort of music thats either going to appeal to you or not. For sure the success of TB is down to many things and the timing of its release is one of them. Do you think if Ommadawn or Amarok had been Mike's first release they would have done as well as TB? I have my doubt's Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Sep. 05 2002, 05:55 Let me reply to TOBY: There is no doubt that TubularBells is an excellent instrumental. But it is in no way more appealing to a wider audience than e.g., Ommadawn or Amarok. Yes I know, Amarok sold terrible, and TB sold in millions! That proves nothing! TB has also a very selective appeal, with all its load guitars and so on, and I believe that it was such a success because of the musical climate back in '73. If it had been released 1979 it wouldn't have sold more than a few thousand copies, trust me. After 1975 this kind of music Mike stands for has been seen as something terrible, pretentious, something to hate irrespective of its qualities. My guess is that Ommadawn would have had the same impact as TB if it had been the first album. IN NO WAY is quality correlated with commercial success. The latter demands from the music to be rather straightforward and not too 'difficult', since most people isn't highly musically talent (let's face it, that is a true statement; the question is just how to prove it...). Therefore a catchy tune is always going to have greater commercial potential than a fuge, no matter how geniously written. Do not judge Mikes music after how it sold. That is a big mistake. Back to top

treslunas Group: Musicians Posts: 55 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Sep. 05 2002, 06:03 You said it the man! -------------- Tr3s Lunas (Danny Hudson) Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Sep. 05 2002, 14:25 I think you're arguing in the face of hard evidence there chap. TB sold more than Ommadawn so obviously it was more appealing. Mike was at the hight of his commercial success at this point remember he was very much in the publics mind, this is a strange arguement, the evidence kind of speaks for itself I would say. I'm fully aware that Ommadawn is arguably a better peice of music artistically. I say again Amarok is a fantastic work but It's obviously not everyone's cup of tea. Remember just because you love something to death doesn't mean everyone should. I doubt very much Ommadawn would have sold anywhere near the same amount as TB had it been released first. It might have recieved the same critical appraisal but remember TB was used in the Exorcist and people loved that opening theme even on its own. Ommadawn may be better but TB has the catchy edge. 'Quality isn't allways corralated to commercial success'. Obviously it isn't allways. But sometimes the general public appriciate good quality when they here it and they heard it when they heard TB, and lots of them bought it. Remember Ommadawn sold well too, it just obviously wasn't as appealing as TB. So sometimes commercial success can be corralated to quality. Sometimes. And I would say it happens more frequently than you emply. 'Most people don't have high musical talent' .True, but a few do and quite a few of those few make good music that people appriciate and buy. I think you're being a bit overly dismissive.   And lastly. I don't judge Mike's music or anybody else's for that matter on how much it sold. The original question was the implication that it was a strange thing for Mike to think of TB as his best album. And it's not a strange way to think at all. The general opinion of most fans ( I repeat most fans ) and critics alike is that TB and Ommadawn are probably his best two albums. I say again. Just because somebody dislikes TB doesn't mean the rest of us and its creator can't appriciate it for what it is . Genius. Sorry if you personaly don't agree. Sometimes you have to look at things from other peoples perspectives. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 00:24 One of the things that most people have to realise is that just because you don't like something that dosen't mean it isn't good. For example, there are several Mike albums that I don't like as much (Voyager, Incantations, Hergest Ridge) but I still think that they are good albums, and that difinately does not take away anyone's right to like them. It is not strange in any way for Mike to say that Tubular Bells is his best album: it certainly has lots of great bits. And think about it, which album would you think of most fondly: a worldwide smash or a huge flop? I certainly find it much more enjoyable, in anything I do, if it becomes some sort of success. No matter how happy you are with the finished product, if everyone thinks it's a load of crap they you won't be happy. Anyway, I agree with TheMan when he says that how much it sold proves nothing. This discussion is not about Mike's most successful album, it is about Mike's FAVOURITE album. My favourite album, Tubular Bells III, has often come under a lot of critisism for being 'too commercial' etc. but that won't stop me liking it. When we're talking about your opinion, whether anyone else agrees with it is irrelevant. Many posters here seem to have fallen to the 'fan ego syndrome' where your favourite is good, and anyone who says otherwise has no taste whatsoever. That annoys me a lot: there will always be people who have other opinions to yours, especially with an artist so varied as Mike. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, it's as simple as that. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

TOBY Group: Members Posts: 1562 Joined: May 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 01:37 I agree with your open minded approach, its an important thing to have. However I still can't see where the 'Tubular Bells sold 16 million albums-that proves nothing' arguement stems from. Surely it proves that it was a massively popular piece of music that lots of people liked. Something like that isn't popular for nothing. There are very good reasons for why the public and its creator embraced it so much and for why people embraced 'Incantations, Amarok, whatever else, much less. It's not just to do with timing of release, publicity etc. All I'm saying is that there CAN SOMETIMES BE a direct link between a piece art's quality and its commercial success. Picasso's paintings aren't worth millions for nothing you know. Back to top

treslunas Group: Musicians Posts: 55 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 06:04 lets see about the type of music which was out then. You had Kc and the sunshine band, Cream, even bing crosby. The world was shocked to see a totaly 100% instrumentle album! except a few pink floyed tracks! so every one rushed to buy this new album to look into something other than pop star heart breakers. i aint saying tubular bells is crap cos it aint just saying what the man says that you cant judge mikes ability by sales! my best mate is the same class guitarist as ingve malmsteen (spelling) or even mike but if he was going to bring an album out, i dougt it would spark a flame! no ofensse to my mate! Tr3s Lunas -------------- Tr3s Lunas (Danny Hudson) Back to top

treslunas Group: Musicians Posts: 55 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 06:08 Quote (TOBY @ Sep. 05 2002, 14:25) I think you're arguing in the face of hard evidence there chap. TB sold more than Ommadawn so obviously it was more appealing. hey we only bought the spice girls album cos we wanted to shag them all! Tr3s Lunas -------------- Tr3s Lunas (Danny Hudson) Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 06:17 Well TOBY, I'm not negative about TubularBells; it is a really great record! And if it is your favourite, then why not? BUT: I just don't see that it stands out that much that Mike has to return to it so many times? That it about what I wanted to say. Do YOU want Mike to constantly talk about TB in each interview, but never mention any other record? Personally I am really tired of that. I do not agree that I am arguing against 'hard evidences'. The 'evidences' are nothing else than the fact that TB sold better than the other records. That doesn't prove anything about the how attractive the albums are to a wide audience; there are many other variables to consider here and I believe that the climate 1973 is very much responsible for those nice figures (16 million). If there were such a thing as a representative group of 1000 persons, having 'the same kind of musical talent and taste as the typical TB buyer back in 73" (whatever that means), never having heard anything from Mike, and if we could play all his records for this group (in random order for each person), and 80 % would say 'hey I liked TB best' ... well that would be a kind of an evidence to me. Actually I don't think most fans consider TubularBells to be among his 2 best records, but you may be right of course. In fact, I believe that most fans would consider the following albums as better than TubularBells: Amarok, TubularBellsIII, Ommadawn, Incantations, TheSongsOfDistantEarth. Am I right? If Mike REALLY has TB as his favourite then fine, but I don't believe that a second. It is a marketing ploy, it is riding on earlier success. Back to top

treslunas Group: Musicians Posts: 55 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 06:33 too true mate. in every interveiw they start off with TUBULAR BELLS. It was nearly 30 years ago! i bet mikes fed up. My mate runs a site called www.metalliville.com and he is trying to get an interview with mike which i will conduct and i aint gonna start off with tubular bells if i get it! PLease let me it! Tr3s Lunas -------------- Tr3s Lunas (Danny Hudson) Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 06:38 Hey treslunas, I'm dreaming of that kind of interview (not starting with the TB theme fading away ... followed by the words "Mike Oldfield was just 17 years old ...")! Back to top

treslunas Group: Musicians Posts: 55 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 06:40 Dont we all! -------------- Tr3s Lunas (Danny Hudson) Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 06:44 TOBY is right about Picasso, and sure, SOMETIMES a wide audience appreciate quality. But that is more of an exception, and the principle "GOOD SELL = QUALITY' is for sure NOT applicable/trustable. Even though Spice Girls are apples and Incantations is oranges, there are 'hard evidences' that apples are of higher quality than oranges (according to this principle). Personally I would prefer the orange in this case. Back to top

treslunas Group: Musicians Posts: 55 Joined: Aug. 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 06:47 Maybe a bit of apple on the side    ! -------------- Tr3s Lunas (Danny Hudson) Back to top

TheMan Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: July 2002 Posted: Sep. 06 2002, 08:58 Well you know what I mean ... TOBY, you are an otherwise wise man with many good comments... but what do you actually claim here? That TubularBells is the best MO album, or that commercial success is a measure of quality? If it is the latter, please explain then why Amarok sold so bad. (Because it is bad?). Back to top

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