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ex member 337 Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 33 Joined: May 2000 Posted: Sep. 29 2000, 11:15 Do you really reckon mike speeded many solo's up? Perhaps the mega fast ommadawn one? Or that one at 36 mins in Amarok Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Oct. 11 2000, 20:50 You do wonder sometimes... To tell the truth, I think that, certainly with Ommadawn, you would be able to hear that something funny was going on. Speeded up analogue tape makes things start to sound squeaky (because the pitch is raised at the same time)...a bit like the double speed guitar sounds in Tubular Bells...I suppose with distortion it could perhaps be hidden...I still don't think it would sound natural though (then people may claim that playing guitar that fast is not natural either). Amarok was done digitally...there are now some things that can change speed independently of pitch fairly naturally, but in 1990, that was not so possible... Besides, I have more conclusive proof...I'm not a great one for learning solos and songs and things, but I had a little try at that Ommadawn solo and...it is possible. It's mostly a clever succession of hammer ons and pull offs, picking every third note (for those of you who know what I'm talking about...) - basically, he's not picking every note, instead relying on various factors so that he needs to move just the fingers on the left hand (instead of picking every note, where he'd be co-ordinating between the two hands). Playing it possibly involves some fairly heavy stretches, but with a short scale guitar (like his Gibson SG Junior that he was using a lot at the time...it might be another guitar though, I'll have to listen again) and some reasonably light strings (he used 009 gauge at the time, I believe, and still does as far as I know) along with practise, it is possible to play that. I believe Mike had been working on that for a while - there are similar runs in Hergest Ridge, just not played quite as well. The Amarok one...well, I haven't tried that one but, if he was as good as he was when he recorded Ommadawn, you can only expect him to be better with 15 years more practise There's one in QE2 that seems ridiculous as well...it's using a similar technique. As for the fast riff intro to Amarok...practise makes perfect Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Oct. 13 2000, 16:17 Korgscrew: I'm attempting a reply, but please take it with a pinch of salt because you know how little I know about technical matters... However, in 1987-88, AFAIK about it, Roland/Boss put out a box (a rack unit) that could change the speed of a song without changing its speed. At that time it was mostly used to speed up slow songs (Toni Braxton, Mariah Carey etc.) so they fitted dance remixes . A year later, some software house [Creative???] put out a computer software that could do mostly the same thing. DJs used it, they still use it and IMHO Mike used it as well for the Amarok solo. And I'm not talking about a dramatic speed change, but only one/third - one/fourth up than the original speed. How do I know? Well, I tried it out . I taped the solo and then I (slightly) slowed down the tape, manually [i.e. using a piece of Scotch tape on the capstan...I have an old tape recorder ]... the solo sounded still fast, but a little more "normal", i.e. more easily playable by a virtuoso guitarist, as Mike certainly is. As for the playing technique, I agree with you about the Ommadawn solo...and this one. Maybe in the fast Flamenco section of Amarok only one note out of five/seven is really picked...the others are all hammered-on. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

CarstenKuss Group: Musicians Posts: 362 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Oct. 13 2000, 17:16 Well, we can easily trap him if there are any notes than can't be played on a real guitar, because they are too high. I checked the Ommadawn solo. What I found is: The highest note is C#5, which can be easily played on any electric guitar (even the Strat), since it is only on 21st fret. Check also my MIDI in the MIDI section. There are also many notes missing in the Ommadawn solo (due to technical "imperfection" ha!ha!), and all the fret noises sound realistic to me. So do the bends, hammer-ons and pull-offs. I still believe that he is REALLY that fast. -Carsten- -------------- -Carsten- Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Oct. 13 2000, 18:12 You may be right, Ugo, but... A day after my last post, I was still thinking about that solo...so I slowed it down so I could get the notes better and started to learn it. I'm not there yet, but I'm starting to see the tricks he's used and...practise makes perfect The tricks, btw, seem partly to be playing in the open position at the beginning, then some clever fingerpicking combined with hammer ons and pull offs. Add a couple other things to the guitar solo cooking pot and we have one finished flamenco solo I might let you know if I discover some more. Back to top

CarstenKuss Group: Musicians Posts: 362 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Oct. 16 2000, 16:39 Concerning the Amarok solo, I can only say that it sounds natural to me again, not speeded up. It can be done on a 24fret guitar. Do any of you know Van Halen? Check out their first album, esp. the track "Eruption". There's some pretty fast stuff, and I saw Eddie play it live in concert in 1979. -Carsten- -------------- -Carsten- Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Oct. 18 2000, 20:48 I've heard quite a few players who can get up to some frightening speeds... After a bit of messing around, I can believe that it's straight ahead playing there, with no speed adjustment going on (although...it is just a bit fast...). Whether he played it in one go or edited several parts together, I haven't quite decided yet, though playing the whole thing in one go would fit in with the whole ethic of the album. I also believe that with a bit of practise to get the transitions between the different little sections (i.e. where he moves about on the fretboard) smooth, the whole thing would be playable in one go, at that speed, especially after playing for the 30+ years he'd been playing by that time (or was it not as long as/longer than that? I think I've seen conflicting info on the age he started at...was pretty young though...). I'll carry on my 'research' when I next feel like it (so many notes...uhhhhhh...). Back to top

rosko Group: Members Posts: 184 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Oct. 19 2000, 08:53 I think he started playing when he was 8. That would mean he had about 14 years experience when he did Ommadawn. I think your just a bit off with your estimate Korgscrew. If he had 30 years experience at the time of Ommadawn, that would mean he started playing about 8 years before he was born! I would have thought that someone with as many posts as you would know Mike's year of birth. Back to top

CarstenKuss Group: Musicians Posts: 362 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Oct. 19 2000, 14:59 rosko, I think Korgscrew was talking about AMAROK, not Ommadawn. And BTW, experience is not everything. There's an album by Bireli Lagrene, titled '15' (because he was 15 years old). Again, some pretty fast stuff! -Carsten- -------------- -Carsten- Back to top

Unregistered Posted: Oct. 25 2000, 17:22 Solo at 36:00 in amarok speeded up .. hmm, you're kidding me right ? That's slow in comparison to todays top guitarists and using a simple finger tapping technique it's quite easy to play that particular part. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Oct. 28 2000, 19:37 The 30 years bit did indeed refer to Amarok...I can't see Mike having been 38 when he recorded Ommadawn It's possible to play that part using tapping, or something similar, but from the sound, I'd say that's not how Mike actually does it. A couple parts get close to being sweep picked, though, then a couple bits with fingerpicking (if you happen to know the solo to Dire Straits' Sultans of Swing, it's a similar thing to what Knopfler does in the solo at the very end). That's just my theory though... Back to top

CarstenKuss Group: Musicians Posts: 362 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Oct. 29 2000, 14:29 PMT: I agree it's recorded real-time, but I don't think it's EASY! If you can play it, then please make an MP3 and mail it to me! Korgscrew: Interesting that you mention Dire Straits. Right, Mark Knopfler didn't use a pick, but his finger tips. It made him faster, and gave him better control over the sound. Mike also often (but not always) uses his specially shaped finger nails. It could also be possible that he changes techniques in real-time. I remember a video (Guilty???) where he puts the pick in and out of his mouth. What's sweep picking? -------------- -Carsten- Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Oct. 29 2000, 16:16 I think "sweep picking" is when you slide the pick over the keys while simultaneously tapping with your left hand. Am I right, Korgscrew? -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Unregistered Posted: Nov. 17 2000, 20:19 Carsten .. obviously incorrect wording on my part I meant of course to say that any of the top guitarists in the world could quite easily play this particular solo, and given enough practice a lot of semi-pro guitarists or people who just play for the love of it could play it too ... Right now I probably couldn't play Old Mc'Donald childrens nursery rhyme as I havn't picked my guitar up for over two years now due to work commitments I must start playing again soon really.. Keep working at it though, that solo is a very achievable goal you just need to practice like hell Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Nov. 20 2000, 17:36 That's about it, Ugo. The important part is the way the pick 'sweeps' over the strings quickly. Then, you'd normally fret notes on adjacent strings (although sometimes with some hammering on and pulling off as well...) - often the notes of an arpeggio. Mike may do it by picking the notes of each string with a different finger, or maybe with a pick, or by sliding the nails across...or something totally different... Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Jan. 26 2002, 00:53 What about (in Amarok) the solo at 22 minutes 30 seconds. That's about as fast as any solo i've seen be anyone. How did he do that? By the way, i've seen a live vidoe on some show where he combines a bit from Amarok with Taurus III. That's pretty fast too! -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Jan. 26 2002, 19:18 That would be the one I've referred to above as the 'flamenco solo'. It's mostly hammer-on/pull-offs together with quick picking of alternate strings using the right hand fingers. He starts off right down on the first three frets, using the open strings as well, before moving upwards. Back to top

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