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Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Dec. 12 2005, 13:05 So there I am, listening to Ringscape, and dreaming of snowy owls and ice caverns, and the music begins to fade, and in my mind the owl is flying further and further away ... and then suddenly, with a twist of the engineer's volume control that is almost palpable, the illusion is broken as the sound dips quickly to zero. What I expect from a good fade is that illusion of the music disappearing gently into the distance - so gently that you can't quite decide where the music ends and where silence begins. But this ending to Ringscape is close to being an abortion, not an ending. All it needed was another few seconds of gentle diminishment of volume, but no - suddenly, enough is enough, says the engineer, and it's cut off, as though CD-playing time were money. Does this bother anyone else? Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Dec. 12 2005, 15:26 Yep, it's a completely stupid, abrupt fade-out. Couldn't have costed a lot to give the song five more seconds to make a gentler fade-out, or maybe just apply the correct fade-out effect. I can't even say that's an amateurish effect - I learned to make better fade-outs even before I could call myself an amateur (I'm not trying to bash Mike - I just can't understand that thing). -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

olracUK Group: Members Posts: 1683 Joined: June 2003 Posted: Dec. 12 2005, 15:28 On the whole, to my cloth-ears, the ending is a bit messy anyway after the last guitar part. The actual fadeout depends on how loud you are playing it. As i usually have it low whilst at work or surfing when the family are asleep. it doesn't bother me. I just turned up the volume, and I see what you mean Alan. A heavily echoed hammond fade out to zero would have been mush better. -------------- The answer is 42 - but what is the question? Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Dec. 12 2005, 16:06 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Dec. 12 2005, 20:26) (I'm not trying to bash Mike - I just can't understand that thing). No, I entirely agree, Sir M. I'm not bashing anybody, either. But it just makes no sense. I just have this little niggling thought.... did anyone actually listen to that faded ending before it went off to the CD-making plant? Or was it a 'yeah, fade off the ending and send it' kind of thing? @andy: I agree, if you listen to it very quietly it's not noticeable. I mean - it's not a big deal. There are more important things in life. But it just seems a daft oversight. Back to top

Harmono Group: Members Posts: 759 Joined: May 2005 Posted: Dec. 12 2005, 16:38 Now that I listen to that ending Im thinking yes, I agree. Another thing about L&S is that first I was amazed but now Im not so much. It seems to be lacking the staying power of the previous albums, although Blackbird is still powerfull. Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Dec. 13 2005, 08:32 I agree with you Alan. 100%. All that potential. -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

stevenmd779 Group: Members Posts: 248 Joined: Aug. 2005 Posted: Dec. 13 2005, 08:35 Fadeing out is the worst way to end a song in my opinion. -------------- "A people who would sacrifice liberty for security will lose both, and deserve neither." Ben Franklin Boogs is fo' da chode man. Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Dec. 13 2005, 08:50 Quote (stevenmd779 @ Dec. 13 2005, 08:35) Fadeing out is the worst way to end a song in my opinion. For a while, I thought so. It's a fairly cheap and easy way to end a song (look at the song "Band on the Run"). However, sometimes the fadeout can work to good musical effect. Don't forget the drum-cadence fade-out on "Ommadawn" part 1. Another song-ending problem is "We don't know how to end this song, so let's just blast along a while longer". Genesis had this problem on "Trespass". -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Dec. 13 2005, 10:21 When I think of fade-outs, I instantly remember "Supper's Ready", by the aforementioned Genesis. Not only another kind of ending would have probably not worked, the fade-out works wonders in the context of the song and is evocative as hell. There's "It", from The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, which is similar. There are songs that just shouldn't end, in my opinion (metaphorically speaking! ). "Ringscape" fits that, in my opinion. And I'm also out of possible answers for why that abrupt slice-out made it into the record. Maybe the guys couldn't stand working on the album anymore and just send it to Hell like it was? That I can, at least, comprehend. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Dec. 13 2005, 10:48 Quote (stevenmd779 @ Dec. 13 2005, 13:35) Fadeing out is the worst way to end a song in my opinion. Well, as Hiawatha suggests, surely it depends very much on context? I think it can be very effective, particularly in situations where one imagines the fading being due to increasing distance. A lovely example of creative use of the fadeout is the album version of Steeleye Span's 'Gaudete', where you're left feeling that a bunch of wassailers have just been singing for you, and now they're moving on to the next street, or beyond. Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Dec. 13 2005, 10:50 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Dec. 13 2005, 10:21) When I think of fade-outs, I instantly remember "Supper's Ready", by the aforementioned Genesis. Not only another kind of ending would have probably not worked, the fade-out works wonders in the context of the song and is evocative as hell. There's "It", from The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway, which is similar. Yes. Genesis has good examples. I think they did not know well how to end songs in "Trespass", but figured it out afterwards. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

olracUK Group: Members Posts: 1683 Joined: June 2003 Posted: Dec. 13 2005, 16:29 And to think of all those wonderful crescendo endings Mike has done. There's a thread around here somewhere. What really bugs me are those repeat chorus and fade songs, no thought put in at all. -------------- The answer is 42 - but what is the question? Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Dec. 13 2005, 21:57 Quote (olracUK @ Dec. 14 2005, 05:29) What really bugs me are those repeat chorus and fade songs, no thought put in at all. Foreign Affair, anyone? I never noticed the Ringscape fade-out until I read it here. It isn't enough to ruin my enjoyment of the song, not by a long way, but abrupt is certainly the word. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

olracUK Group: Members Posts: 1683 Joined: June 2003 Posted: Dec. 14 2005, 06:46 Quote (raven4x4x @ Dec. 14 2005, 02:57) Foreign Affair, anyone? Ha! There is a great example of a song that should have ended with an acoustic guitar swirl and big chord crash. -------------- The answer is 42 - but what is the question? Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Dec. 14 2005, 09:46 Quote (olracUK @ Dec. 14 2005, 11:46) Ha! There is a great example of a song that should have ended with an acoustic guitar swirl and big chord crash. And also, a great deal sooner. Back to top

Tubularman Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 2304 Joined: June 2004 Posted: Dec. 22 2005, 11:31 quite a short fade out yes...... I havent notice it before, but yes tooo short -------------- Mike Oldfield M i x e s https://soundcloud.com/tubularman Back to top

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