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smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: April 21 2009, 08:57 I think you both need to study discursive psychology. -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

Inkanta Group: Admins Posts: 1453 Joined: Feb. 2000 Posted: April 21 2009, 18:10 Quote (Dirk Star @ April 21 2009, 03:40) I must admit I always thought it was a "polite put-down" as well.Or at the very least it read like a kind of "I`m staying out of this,you can make you`re own mind up" sort of thing.Maybe I`m off-base I don`t know?But like yourself Nightspore it`s always bothered me a little bit as well. I have always thought it an oddly expressed sentiment, but never really thought of it as a put-down--more like an awkward attempt at wanting to be respectful of something he didn't quite "get." -------------- "No such thing as destiny; only choices exist." From:  Moongarden's "Solaris." Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 21 2009, 20:34 Exactly, Dirk. If these people like something, why don't they just come out and say so? Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 21 2009, 20:44 Quote (Inkanta @ April 21 2009, 18:10) I have always thought it an oddly expressed sentiment, but never really thought of it as a put-down--more like an awkward attempt at wanting to be respectful of something he didn't quite "get." You see it all the time in reviews, as Dirk implied. For example, there was a novel by a guy called David Ireland and Patrick White (the Nobel Prize winner) was quoted as saying "David Ireland has reached the top". At first this sounds a compliment, but then you realise it probably means "David Ireland has communicated with the top writer in the world". It's a pity Mike's record company wasn't more sensitive to the nuances of language. A cynic might also remark that it's a pity that Clarke's language skills didn't extend to his fiction. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: April 21 2009, 21:47 Ok, call me naïve, but I can't see any kind of "put down" in Clarke's comment. Besides, if you analyse the text as a whole, you see that he says he was "delighted" by Mike's plans of making the album -- so, if the album "has lived up to [his] expectations", one can only assume that the album "delighted" him. At least I don't see how he could be "delighted" by a project he expected to suck. As for coming out and saying it, well, I've never seen much credibility in "OMG miek oldfield is liek soo awesome lol teh songz of distnat earth rules lol peace" -- and, you know, if they decided to drench the album in words of love and praise, it'd probably sound like cheap marketing. Clarke wasn't there to kiss Mike's ass, but to give the album his endorsement. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: April 21 2009, 23:36 Sir Mustapha - you took the words right out of my hippocampus!  Clarke is attempting to remain 'objective' in his assessment of Mike's work, whilst endorsing it - a tricky operation.  Also, these cheap shots at Clarke's writing ability in a misguided attempt to defend Mike's music are ludicrous and dare I say it, disrespectful. Plus, hasn't this thread wandered a bit 'off topic'? -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

ex member 419 Group: Members Posts: 1177 Joined: April 2008 Posted: April 22 2009, 04:32 hi guys, the answer to this debate is simple, mike would say dont analyse this to find an answer, enjoy the music, deb Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: April 22 2009, 09:18 Well said, Deb!  The voice of sanity as always. -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

Sweetpea Group: Members Posts: 1476 Joined: April 2007 Posted: April 22 2009, 13:24 Quote (nightspore @ April 21 2009, 01:06) He wasn't being haughty; he was being polite. He didn't want to offend MO, but at the same time didn't want to say he liked something he didn't. I remember Sweetpea came to the same conclusion. I had wondered about Clarke's style and intent, but that was not the conclusion I came to. -------------- "I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty Back to top

Ghostmojo Group: Members Posts: 94 Joined: Mar. 2009 Posted: April 23 2009, 19:44 Quote (Dirk Star @ April 21 2009, 03:40) ... For me it kind of compares well with this little "conundrum" from Ridley Scott in his sleevenotes to the 25th anniversary edition of the Blade Runner soundtrack....   "..So now finally,I am very pleased that Vangelis is releasing a 3-disc collection of music from and inspired by Blade Runner to coincide with the film`s 25th anniversary. I hope that Vangelis is as satisfied with the soundtrack release as I am with the new version of the film itself. ... The paragraph prior to that is a tad "ambigous" as well to say the least.Although to be fair Scott does at least say.."His music underscores Blade Runner,giving it a dark and beautiful cadence.."..Which unfortunatly still kind of leaves you a little bit "unsure" about the soundtrack album itself. In truely spooky fashion I am just listening to this, just as I read your comments (having shelled out for this all singing all dancing affair - being a fan of both the film and V's music and it is great). I think, however, you might be reading something into this that isn't actually there. Afterall, Vangelis has not only had this thing remixed/remastered etc.; with a second disc of previously unreleased snippets added; but also has gone to the lengths of recording some new music inspired by the whole thing for this 25th anniversary issue as a third disc. So he must see some value in it and presumably is very pleased with the final trilogy package (as am I). It looks great and sounds great... -------------- " ... if you feel a little glum - to Hergest Ridge you should come ... " Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: April 24 2009, 02:57 Fair enough Ghostmojo,I just get the impression Ridley would`ve prefered to have heard a soundtrack album that featured music exclusively from the film.He kind of alludes to that in the paragraph previous to the one I quoted imo.It would`ve been nice to have heard a soundtrack album(bootlegs aside) way back in 1982 of course.But personaly I think what Vangelis has done with the music since,both in 1993/4,and with this recent anniversary version have more than made up for that.He released a lot of albums in the early part of the 80`s,and I think that played a major part in him not wanting to put it out at the time..Anyway way off topic I apologise,..I love disc three to bits though.   Quote I have always thought it an oddly expressed sentiment, but never really thought of it as a put-down--more like an awkward attempt at wanting to be respectful of something he didn't quite "get." I think you`re bang on there Inkanta,sums it up perfectly for me. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 24 2009, 07:16 There's a short story by Clarke called "The Ultimate Melody" (from memory) where he comes across as a bit of a music dilletante. My reading is that Clarke hadn't heard of Oldfield, did a bit of research on the Web and found that MO had done the soundtrack to The Killing Fields, decided that that would be something respectable enough to be associated with and so pretended to like it. All the arguments in the world can't change the fact that "lived up to expectations" is ambiguous. It's also not helpful for Smillsoid to suggest that those who disagree with him are mad. Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: April 24 2009, 09:24 That's not what I meant, and you know it Nightspore.  All I asserted is that it's negative to use a thread exploring religious references on a Mike Oldfield album to have a go at Arthur C. Clarke - whom I and many others have great respect for. -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: April 24 2009, 13:38 I don't mind people putting down Clarke, personally; not because I'm not a fan, but opinions are opinions. There is, though, quite a bit of empty speculation. I don't think it's a good idea to make judgements based on what things SEEM like MAYBE they MIGHT be what they LOOK like to us. Maybe Clarke hated the album and was being polite. Maybe he actually loved it, but didn't want to come across like a fanboy. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe maybe maybe. Will we ever know, anyway? -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

wiga Group: Members Posts: 2113 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: April 24 2009, 16:13 Fragile Tension - Depeche Mode -------------- Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 25 2009, 08:37 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ April 24 2009, 13:38) I don't think it's a good idea to make judgements based on what things SEEM like MAYBE they MIGHT be what they LOOK like to us. Maybe Clarke hated the album and was being polite. Maybe he actually loved it, but didn't want to come across like a fanboy. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe maybe maybe. Will we ever know, anyway? But it's pointless to speculate about certainties, Sir M. Therefore, if there is to be any discussion at all, it has to be about what seems to be. And Clarke's words are fair game. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 25 2009, 10:06 Quote (smillsoid @ April 24 2009, 09:24) That's not what I meant, and you know it Nightspore. Smillsoid, it's difficult to know your thoughts or meaning when your personality profile has only been available for scrutiny since December. I won't even go down the "Is-Smillsoid-yet-another-reincarnation-of-someone-who-left-the forum-after-spitting-the-dummy" track! Besides, I hardly launched an "attack" on Clarke. He was, in fact, my favourite author during my teen years, and I know his writing very well. His strengths are technological extrapolation and vivid description; his weaknesses are characterization and a tendency to use laughable, archaic language in an attempt to be "poetic". Examples are his phrase "thrice a billion years" (from "The Sentinel", from memory, but don't quote me), and "If I Forget Thee, O Earth". I recently re-read The City and The Stars, one of my favourite Clarke novels form my teen years, and was immensely disappointed. All that wonderful, technologically advanced civilization to be destroyed just because there are no more kids. Make of that what you will. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: April 25 2009, 13:54 I know that speculation, many times, is all we're left with. But the speculation in this thread is pretty much circular, based more on personal bias than on observation of facts. But that's not even the main problem: I don't think speculation alone should lead to judgments. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: April 26 2009, 16:11 Aren't you a serious lot? -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: April 26 2009, 17:00 Arthur C. Clarke`s Mysterious Words...??? Back to top

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