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Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Sep. 13 2007, 09:26 Well, this is quite probably the wrong forum to ask this, but it's the place where I feel more comfortable, so if anybody can give me some advice... I bought, on special offer, a new MIDI keyboard some weeks ago (an Oberheim MC-1000 88). Everything was ok, but after some time I noticed that a key seemed to be more sensitive to velocity than the rest. I didn't pay it much attention, because I just thought it was my fault, and also I had to struggle with my MIDI-to-USB device, which is a REAL CRAP ("M-Audio USB Uno", avoid it ). Now I've tested it, and some of the keys (at least three of them) are responding with more velocity than the rest. It's not a very big difference, and I've just noticed it when playing with a piano sound, but it's there. Is it something common with other keyboards? Or with that Oberheim?. I wouldn't like to send it back to the shop (I bought it on-line) just to receive the same back, you know . Back to top

jonnyw Group: Members Posts: 522 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Sep. 13 2007, 12:06 I use a roland xp-10 with a M-audio MIDI uno cable, and its perfect, I even use it live to my laptop on stage sometimes. As for the key problem, It could possibly be something to do with the keyboard. I am no expert though. That oberhiem has weighted keys, so I am guesing there could very well be an issue there. Not sure though, Whats bad about your Uno cable? -------------- Grand piano. Reed and pipe organ. Glockenspeil. Bass guitar. Vocal chords. Two slightly sampled electric guitars. The venitian effect. Digital sound processor. And Tubular bells. Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com Back to top

Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Sep. 13 2007, 14:02 Quote (jonnyw @ Sep. 13 2007, 18:06) That oberhiem has weighted keys, so I am guesing there could very well be an issue there. Yes, that's what I was thinking about, and I forgot to mention. My older keyboard has semi-weighted keys, and the sensitivity is the same for all keys (or at least very similar for adjacent keys, which is how I've tested it). But the Oberheim keys are weighted, which is quite different. Do weighted-key keyboards have this kind of issues? Quote (jonnyw @ Sep. 13 2007, 18:06) Whats bad about your Uno cable? Well, it's just a matter of being lucky or not with this cable. There're many positive reviews on the net, but also there's some people with many problems installing the drivers, making the product to work, or with a Yamaha keyboard, which doesn't work with it. In my case, the cable misses some note-on or off messages at random times, which is unacceptable (and specially annoying in the case of missing note-off with non-decaying sounds). At first I thought it was the keyboard, till I found a review of somebody with the same problem (and he had it in the middle of a concert ). Back to top

jonnyw Group: Members Posts: 522 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Sep. 13 2007, 15:32 Yeah, I worked in a school that had lot sof them, and i remeber now seieng some ones that had blowin out for no reason, My one works alright though. I think I havent had any issues with drivers because I use max osx. Though that school had windows XP somputers, I wonder if they had any driver problems.. Is that oberheim JUST a midi controller? or does it have its own tonebanks at all? If it had its own sounds, you could output it to n amp and see if its the same problem there. -------------- Grand piano. Reed and pipe organ. Glockenspeil. Bass guitar. Vocal chords. Two slightly sampled electric guitars. The venitian effect. Digital sound processor. And Tubular bells. Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com Back to top

Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Sep. 13 2007, 17:01 Nope, although I can plug a soundcard to it, it's just a MIDI controller. Anyway, I'm 99.9999999% sure that it's a problem with the keyboard; I wonder if that's a problem only with my keyboard. Thanks for replying, Jonny, by the way   Back to top

jonnyw Group: Members Posts: 522 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Sep. 13 2007, 17:31 no probs, wish i could help more   -------------- Grand piano. Reed and pipe organ. Glockenspeil. Bass guitar. Vocal chords. Two slightly sampled electric guitars. The venitian effect. Digital sound processor. And Tubular bells. Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Sep. 13 2007, 20:44 It's not normal behaviour; weighted keyboards have equal response across all keys just as all other keyboards do, though it's normal for the action of the higher keys to be lighter than the lower ones - that's to mimic the action of a piano, which doesn't have dampers on the high strings, making the key action lighter. You might find that makes it very slightly easier to hit higher velocities on the higher keys, but it shouldn't be limited to just three keys. The choices are really either to put up with it, send it back or take it apart... It's difficult to say exactly what the problem would be; either something's miscalibrated or something's misaligned. Do those keys feel slightly easier to push down, or are they the same as the rest? If they're easier to press down, the problem's likely to be with the keyboard mechanism, which you could probably fix yourself if you're feeling adventurous. If there's nothing the matter with the mechanism, it could be all sorts of things. Have you tried selecting different velocity curves on the keyboard to make sure that it's not just that the currently selected one has some kind of strange bug? If that doesn't help, I imagine the problem is with the velocity sensors. I suppose it could simply be that a few of them have shifted position slightly, leading to false readings, something which again you might be able to fix yourself if you're feeling adventurous (it could even just be that there's some dirt in there). Still, unless you're confident about being able to fix the problem, it's better to just send the thing back (they're not going to want to take it back if they can see you've been prodding around inside it! ). Back to top

Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Sep. 14 2007, 09:46 I haven't noticed those keys to be particularly easier to push. It may be that my hands are not sensitive enough, though I noticed the difference between the higher and the lower keys. And I've tested it with two or three velocity curves, and the problem is still there. So, then, I'm more inclined to think that it's a problem with the velocity sensors. About fixing it myself, I fixed my first keyboard (I barely know how to play, but I already have three keyboards... isn't that hilarious/stupid? ), but I just had to screw on a pair of screws, and that was more a toy than anything else. If I open this one I would feel like trying to hack one of those big robots from Robocop. Sure it's got some kind of auto-defense system inside it . And you can't come here to help me, can you? Well, I'll think what to do. Thank you, Korgscrew   Back to top

Markus K. Group: Members Posts: 154 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Sep. 14 2007, 17:03 Quote (Trinidad @ Sep. 13 2007, 21:02) But the Oberheim keys are weighted, which is quite different. Do weighted-key keyboards have this kind of issues? Well I have a Yamaha weighted (no hammer action) digital piano from late 80's and haven't noticed any inconsistency in action so you shouldn't have any in a brand new one. -------------- --- Markus K. Back to top

bevy Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Nov. 2002 Posted: Sep. 14 2007, 22:43 $500 well spent, I think ... keep the good work up my french Oldfield m8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMap2mTrVu8 timmy mallet sucks the fat c@ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZGPOPV2tjY Back to top

Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Sep. 15 2007, 18:48 Quote (Markus K. @ Sep. 14 2007, 23:03) Well I have a Yamaha weighted (no hammer action) digital piano from late 80's and haven't noticed any inconsistency in action so you shouldn't have any in a brand new one. Yeah, that's what I thought, but, you know, I constantly hear or say phrases starting with "It shouldn't..." when I buy something new   . Probably old stuff has better quality than newer one. I've just opened it just to take a look, following the instructions to connect a sound card, from the manual, so the warranty should still be valid. However, I won't take the risk doing anything more, and will return it to the shop. Quote (bevy @ Sep. 15 2007, 04:43) $500 well spent, I think ... keep the good work up my french Oldfield m8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMap2mTrVu8 timmy mallet sucks the fat c@ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZGPOPV2tjY I think I can't understand a single word from that, Bevy Back to top

Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Oct. 12 2007, 17:28 Please, can somebody help me with this   . I sent my keyboard to the shop to be repaired, but I've just received an e-mail from them saying that there is nothing wrong with it, and that they'll take it back to me next Monday   . Maybe I'm a cloth-eared nincompoop, but there was a problem for sure, and it wasn't my fault. Before sending it, I created a MIDI file testing all the (white) keys, pressing adjacent keys at the same time with a flat thing attached to my finger, so the values should be the same, and I did it with four different velocities for each pair of keys. Checking the MIDI file, most keys have a similar velocity to their adjacents (not exactly the same, though), but there're some with bigger differences. As an example, knowing that the velocity values range from 0 to 127, in a particular pair of keys I get these values for each pressing: 63-84,  85-105,  102-117  and  105-121. That is, a difference of around 16%, 16%, 12% and 12% respectively. And that's using a linear velocity curve; I think that with a hard one, which is what I use, the differences are slightly bigger. Seriously, are these numbers significative, or am I just a stupid fussyperson? Could somebody be so kind as to test his/her keyboard the same way? I discarded the idea of a problem with the "MIDI Uno" interface I talked about above, because it'd be very strange that it only happened with some keys, and also, everything responded perfectly when using a completely flat velocity curve. Many thanks! Back to top

Markus K. Group: Members Posts: 154 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 13 2007, 16:06 Well...when playing the keys one by one with roughly the same force, my "attacks" are within one eight of the MIDI velocity range. i.e. inside 12.5 % of the range. That obviously includes the inconcistency of my hitting force, so if there was a way to press each key with exactly the same force, the results could be more consistent. Actually when I tried hitting the same key many times with the same force, the inconsistency from my finger was the 12,5 %, so I am to blame for that. The keyboard might be as bad as my finger or little better. Trying to press many keys at once with the same force seems a bit difficult. If I use the back of a book for example, it would have to be exactly horizontal of course. I actually got worse results that way. I don't know if this helps, but it was interesting anyway. And if you just are not happy with the keyboard, and you won't get a new one, sell it away and try some other one. I guess people have quite different ideas of how keyboards should feel and behave. Of course the problem is, where to get all the 500, 1000 or 2000 Euros for what ever you want to buy. If I ever by a new keyboard, I'll stick to Yamaha. Maybe there's  something in that Japanese accuracy. Plus they seem to have great sounds. -------------- --- Markus K. Back to top

jonnyw Group: Members Posts: 522 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Oct. 13 2007, 19:11 Hmm.. That IS odd.. I really have no Ideas to be honest, I haven't had the same problem to be honest, as I don't use weighted keyboards as much as I should. I have been happy now for years with my Roland. Pretty precise and very fun to use. It's odd that you have that problem though, espeically with such a reputable brand of keyboard.   No mroe Ideas though! sorry! -------------- Grand piano. Reed and pipe organ. Glockenspeil. Bass guitar. Vocal chords. Two slightly sampled electric guitars. The venitian effect. Digital sound processor. And Tubular bells. Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com Back to top

Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Oct. 13 2007, 21:59 Quote (Markus K. @ Oct. 13 2007, 22:06) Well...when playing the keys one by one with roughly the same force, my "attacks" are within one eight of the MIDI velocity range. i.e. inside 12.5 % of the range. [...] Actually when I tried hitting the same key many times with the same force, the inconsistency from my finger was the 12,5 % Although your test doesn't seem very accurate, taking into account both values it looks like there's not much difference with your keys. And also, you haven't noticed anything strange. Quote (Markus K. @ Oct. 13 2007, 22:06) Trying to press many keys at once with the same force seems a bit difficult. Yep, that's why I pressed them in pairs, using some kind of wiring holder, like a ring with a flat part, and which I can just put in my finger to play two notes with the same force, so my measurements are quite accurate. What I'm guessing is whether a difference of 20 units can be considered a flaw. And, to me, for something with a price of around 600+ euros (though I bought it for less), it should. Quote (jonnyw Oct. 14 2007 @ 01:11) It's odd that you have that problem though, espeically with such a reputable brand of keyboard. Yeah, I always read good things about Oberheim, specially about the quality of the keys (ironically). Something that annoys me is that in the e-mail, instead of saying "We haven't been able to detect the problem, could you explain it with more detail?", they say "We haven't found any problem, and will be returning the keyboard next Monday", as if I hadn't tested it properly, and just wanted to waste 50+ euros, plus taking the risk of sending it, as if I were silly... Well, thanks a lot anyway. PD: Aaaaaarrrrgggghhhh!!! Back to top

Moz Group: Musicians Posts: 600 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Oct. 13 2007, 22:19 Trinidad, your profile says you're in Spain - is that correct?  If so, that's a bit of a shame as my dad repairs musical instruments but is in the UK!  Maybe he knows of a site that lists engineers in your area.  I'll ask him. -------------- Twitter: @benbarden Back to top

Trinidad Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Oct. 14 2007, 18:24 Oh, thanks Ben, you're very kind. Anyway, I've sent an e-mail to the shop, with more info about the problem. I hope they check it before sending the keyboard back. Back to top

Moz Group: Musicians Posts: 600 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Oct. 14 2007, 22:27 It's a no-go I'm afraid - you'd need to be local. I hope you get somewhere with the shop. -------------- Twitter: @benbarden Back to top

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