Inkanta
Group: Admins
Posts: 1453
Joined: Feb. 2000 |
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Posted: Feb. 24 2000, 22:47 |
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I've always been fascinated by Mike's excursions into various cultures through the mechanism of language and music. I have a degree in anthropology with a focus on American Indian Studies, but read too much Vine Deloria at an impressionable age and ended up switching to library and information science in graduate school, hahaha! I was blown away by Pacha Mama, as I have always had a special interest in Inka culture, and their astronomy in particular! Someday hope to return to school to focus on it.
Some have looked at the translation of the lyrics from Quechua (the language of the Inkas, spoken by millions of persons in the Andes today) on this site, and those provided by Mike and Dark Star, and wonder, huh???? How can the translations be so different? Which is right?????
Back in December when I first heard Pacha Mama, I immediately understood some of the words from knowing a little bit of Quechua (very little, I might add! . One of the Handel singers, Roy Rashbrook was kind enough to provide the actual Quechua lyrics, and armed with them, I sought someone with expertise to translate. Charles Wolff stepped forward. He had majored in linguistics and attended Cornell University specifically to study Quechua. He has also taught within the Quechua program. It was wonderful of him to provide a scholarly translation! A few weeks later, a different interpretation of the Quechua lyrics appeared on the Dark Star site.
To review:
Huaca Pacha Mama
Huaca Saqsaywaman
Huaca Yachaq Runa
Huaca Munaq Runa
From Charles:
Temple of the Earth Mother
Temple of the Speckled Hawk
Temple of the Wise One
Temple of the Loving One
From Dark Star/Mike:
The Sacred Site of Mother Earth
The Sacred Stone Citadel
The Sacred Wise Ones
The Sacred Loving People
There are many reasons that translations can vary, as many of you who work in at least two languages know (!, including 1) the translator's skill; and 2) the native speaker's knowledge of English and its idiosyncracies. I do not know about Mike's source. (Mike? Caroline? Dark Star?) Was the guide a native Quechua speaker? A Spanish speaker translating Quechua to English? What was the guide's source of the lyrics and translation? It is very challenging to translate poetry and lyrics into another language because it is not isomorphic for many words, i.e., there is not a one-to-one correspondence for the meanings of some words across languages; therefore, they are subject to interpretation, which is highly dependent upon the context.
Although I have not formally studied Quechua, I learned about wakas (i.e. huacas) in connection with Inkaic astronomy and calendrics. Wakas are sacred objects or temples. A deity can reside in the waka - the waka might be the deity, e.g. particular rocks, mountains, rivers, and lakes. Wakas, in addition to being naturally occurring, could be human-engineered, constructed with a particular deity in mind. Some might be pillars/markers erected along the horizon to track the movement of the sun, as was the case with some of the wakas surrounding Cusco. Lineage wakas were also
very important.
Regarding, Saqsaywaman, it is the temple-fortress overlooking Cusco, Peru. I didn't see how Saqsaywaman could be translated as a stone citadel (and not to "tell stories out of school," but Charles questioned this, too!. Sure it WAS made stone, and has been called a temple for the warriors (as per Garcilaso de la Vega's Royal Commentaries...), just as the Koriqancha in central Cusco was the spectacular religious center of the empire containing temples for the sun, moon, pleiades, and others. "Waman" in any orthography means hawk (huaman, guaman). I hope Charles will add to this!
As stated, it is very challenging to translate poetry and lyrics into another language. I don't think in terms of which translation is right, and which is wrong, but I think the first one by our scholar is more accurate, and it certainly flows nicely and has rythym! Of course,the second one is what made Mike's heart soar (like a hawk! and is what he had in mind as he composed Pacha Mama. Wonder if the music would have varied if Mike had had both translations in hand?
I hope you all will add to this discussion!
Cheers!
Mary-Carol
[This message has been edited by Mary-Carol Lindbloom (edited 02-24-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Mary-Carol Lindbloom (edited 02-24-2000).]
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"No such thing as destiny; only choices exist." From: Moongarden's "Solaris."
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)...I think even Mike knows of its similarity to 'sexy woman' which may be why he liked that word 
