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Topic: my thoughts, one of the few who LIKE this album< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 03:44

Please do not take what follows entirely seriously. I myself don't know where its seriousness starts and stops. :)

Maybe Italy is indeed on a very different planet than Earth, as dkaycom would put it, but here people just don't care a flying fuck [sorry] about copy protection on CDs. People buy 'em completely regardless of c-p labels, because they know that the vast majority of CD players (computer players, portable and HiFi ones) play them without any problems at all. Maybe 'cause they're all old, or they're not-really-very-sensitive, or because simple CD players are no longer fashionable here and most common brands (Philips, Yamaha, Pioneer etc.) only commercialize DVD players, that IMHO are far less sensitive on audio CDs than ordinary players. And I know a friend who bought a brand-new PC (one week ago), with a player and a burner; he disabled the foolish Windows autoplay option, he played the TB2003 CD without a glitch and five minutes later he had already made a copy. :)

Please don't hit on me. :D I'm just relating what is most people's opinion here.


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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 09:16

You mention Pioneer DVD players there - I assume that was a joke, as of the DVD mechanisms I've had reports of damage to from the album, they've all been from Pioneer. The whole system's a joke, actually, just not a very funny one...

Certainly most people see no reason to complain when they have no obvious problems with the disc. But should they?
The reason I see for everyone to be concerned regards audio quality - the discs simply don't sound as good (this is of course alongside concerns of it being slowly dictated where and how people should listen to music). It's a lowest common denominator approach. They assume that most people aren't going to be able to hear the difference and they're right, most people won't. A large number of people can't hear the difference between mono and stereo either (though that hasn't stopped the record companies from pushing 5.1, a format which most people probably won't listen to properly...but that doesn't matter, it's a chance to sell all the old albums again)...my opinion is that music should reach the consumer at the highest quality possible, and that includes, mastering and manufacturing the discs to the highest quality possible. Usually engineers are working their hardest to remove errors from the audio chain, as they know that their presence degrades the sound quality, yet here comes a system that puts a load of errors in deliberately! I personally think that's an insulting way to treat a product which has been created with the care that someone like Mike is likely to have put into it.

Sublety in commercial recordings is slowly disappearing. The listeners mostly don't care. Perhaps I'll go and ram some old dishrags into my ears, then maybe I won't care either...
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 12:16

Quote (Korgscrew @ Aug. 12 2003, 15:16)
You mention Pioneer DVD players there - I assume that was a joke, as of the DVD mechanisms I've had reports of damage to from the album, they've all been from Pioneer. The whole system's a joke, actually, just not a very funny one...

Pioneer DVD players are IMHO ridiculous... best ones, I think, are the models by lesser-known brands such as LG, Amstrad & so on; above, I was referring to ordinary Pioneer CD players, no longer being sold down here except in second-hand shops. ;)

I can fully understand your attitude, of course, and yes, I must admit that most music buyers here don't have a similar attitude towards music.


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Mike Chadwick Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 13:24

i am afraid to say that as i was one of the few that didn't liked it...but is grows on me........i listened to it few days ago and i felt like i heard TB for the first time...it is wonderfull - i felt just ants on my bak when i heard loud and heavy bass on Introduction - it blowed off straight from my subwoofer - just amazing....it was always so quiet...later in FINALE i laughed when John Cleese was introducing instruments...and "caveman" is so haunting...
Well - i must say it for the first time - Good job Mike - i am sorry that i discovered it few days ago, not after buying.
sound is incredible...


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tubularbills Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2003, 16:37

Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 11 2003, 18:20)
I own a 'normal stereo system', it plays ALL MY OTHER CD's, and it couldn't and didn't play TB2003. Please don't take this as a personal attack chap but I want to use this as an example to illistrate how important it is that fans back each other up over this. There are a lot of fans out there like myself who simply cannot enjoy TB2003

I do realize that some stereos don't like the copy protection; and refuse to play the TB03 CDs that have it, which really does suck. I was just upset that a few complained that it the copy protection was even on there (even tho they could play it and had no problem).

on a side note, i have a Kenwood Stereo system, Sony DVD player, and RCA stereo, and they all played the CD.


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Mike Chadwick Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2003, 09:07

that's right

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Gandalph Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2003, 09:14

Quote (tubularbills @ Aug. 12 2003, 16:37)
I was just upset that a few complained that it the copy protection was even on there (even tho they could play it and had no problem).

I think people have every right to complain about copy protection being on the disc even if they can play it without problems. Take a look at  this article. The main point being:

Quote
Even when the protection technology works as intended, Wirtz said that normal wear and tear could eventually overwhelm the error correction for the altered discs, causing them to become unreadable within a few years.

"We fear some of these so-called copy-protected CDs will play at first but will eventually show problems and break down," he said.


This is a quote from Gerry Wirtz, the general manager of the Philips copyright office, the company that invented the CD jointly with Sony. When you have a source as respectable as this making this type statement, you have to take it seriously.

I just can't understand why anyone wants to accept a deliberately substandard piece of crap (the disc not the music) and then boast about how happy they are with it. It is just the recording industry taking people for fools.


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Aug. 15 2003, 14:07

[pissy mood] So you say we "young fans" should stick to TB2003 only because the original was made before we were even born? Oh, puh-lease!![/pissy mood] ;)

I am much of a 70's freak myself, and I'm rather surprised you find the original TB dated. I find it quite a shame because TB is, imo, timeless. 'Tis not just about the music, but what's behind it. People with problems will always exist, and if the original TB can serve to put a bit of hope in these people, not way it could be dated today. TB2003 doesn't work in these levels, imo. Mike did it to sound "perfect," and if people are complaining about poor sound, I don't think Mike's objective was accomplished. :/ Of course clipping and stuff might have originated in mastering, and knowing what happened to Vapor Trails in the mastering proccess, I don't think I should be really that sad. :)


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Mike Chadwick Offline




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Posted: Aug. 16 2003, 09:52

That's albRight Sir Mustapha, VAPOR TRAILS by Rush is the best example how producer can make shit even from the good songs...clicking and all the dirty sound are Making VAPOR TRAILS one of the wortster sounding New rock album...

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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2003, 04:57

Could we get back to discussing the music now? I too am annoyed by copy protection, but this topic was supposed to discuss what the music sounds like. I think it sounds amazing. Strangely enough I prefer part two to part one, probably becuase I really loved part one in the original, where part two seemed much weaker. Well, that's been swapped around now: while there isn't much wrong with part one in TB2003, part two has really been fixed in the way Mike intended. That terrible droning bagpipe guitars bit now has a nice acoustic to break it up, and Ambient Guitars is just astounding. This is one of my top Mike guitar songs, it really is just so relaxing and ambient with nothing more than a few guitars. Genius.

PS: I got the non-copy protected canadian version, and I'm glad I did. It's good to be able to focus on the music without having it skip or break the CD player.


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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2003, 08:20

Well,I loved the rerecording version.There are a lot of differences from both albums,in terms of tech and Mike's life.
I feel TB2003 that is a happier album than the original,since Mike is feeling better with himself than way back when he wrote TB.You can notice on his guitar playing and also on the instrumentation.

In the original,you don't see much of the guitar technique we all know quite well,which started much to be on the spotlight (IMHO) in HR.You feel the emotion while listening to the album.Good vibes.

I've always loved the Part 1, but not that much the Part 2.TB 2003 helped me to rediscover the beauty of it,and I'm learning to enjoy the original Part 2.

I see TB 2003 as a new album from Mike.And I'm glad to see that the he liked the final result(and I do care about this) and he's satisfied since his dream had become true.

Of course,I do miss some things from the original on the rerecording,but I do love the new elements he added.Were those new elements on his mind way back in 1972 or some of it had been incorporated through the years? I think so.

TB 1973 is special.TB 2003 is also.
TB 1973 showed Mike to the world and he had become the Tubular Bells chappie .TB 2003 showed Mike to the world,the way he wanted to see TB.


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qjamesfloyd Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2003, 10:41

Raven,your right about Ambient Guitars being Astounding,even that word does'nt really cover it,it is a truly great track,and the fact that Mike appears to pull it of with such apparent ease,is just testament to his genius and a musician,when i first heard it,i was in my car and had to stop the car,and listen to it with my eyes shut,it's that good,it blows away the corisponding part on the original Tubular Bells,even the Tubular Bells 2 version which i though was amazing is bettered by this,but they are the same and different at the same time.My god Mike Odlfield is amazing,anyone agree :cool: ?

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Afgyhi Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2003, 11:01

Yes, Mike is a true genious!!  :D

And TB 2003 is a real improvement from the original, I think. Before TB2003 I didnt understand why Mike thought the original was so bad, but now I do!!! Though the original is still very nice to listen to, especially on vinyl!!!


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Galaxy Bounce
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Posted: Oct. 20 2003, 16:56

I haven't been able to read all the stuff here but I'm still trying to decide the base in "Introduction" is keyboard or a real base guitar.
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bugular tell Offline




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Posted: Feb. 05 2004, 16:12

i have been listening to TB03 every evening in my car on the way home from work for 3 weeks now, i know that seems sad, but when i first heard it i thought i didnt like it too much, but then i remembered what mike said about it being all that the original was ment to be, so i gave it another chance, and now i love it, although the original TB has the emotion, i think that that TB03 has the passion sooooo much energy, and for all the people that moan about the fact that he used a synth bass, im sure that if the technology was a vailable in the 70's he would have done the same then, it dosen't detract from the listening experience, just creates a more powerful mood, for me tho, i am glad i gave it a second chance, after all its only 45ish minutes out of my life to discover that i was disliking it for all the wrong reasons, so i accepted what it was and bloody well love it now!  ;)

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Guimauve2 Offline




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Posted: Aug. 14 2004, 14:30

Personnaly, I have absolutely no problem of copy-protection because, well... I live in Canada, and in Canada, there is no copy-proctection!

Anyways, TB2003 is a great album.  When I want to listen to TBI, I listen to TB2003, because for me, it's all the same (and since Tubular Bells 2003 is an enhanced version of Tubular Bels I, I do not see why I souldn't listen to it).
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Posted: Aug. 20 2004, 16:47

As practicaly every DVD player can disable Macrovision with a key press combination on the remote control, and a lot of DVD ROMS and DVD Writers can switch it off in software or thru a firmware upgrade, Am I right in thinking that the whole copy protection thing will cease to be an issue?
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Sep. 28 2004, 16:08

I've been listening to Tubular Bells, on and off, for 25 years now; and although it's a groundbreaking work of genius and I'd never be without a copy to hand, it never moved me in the way that some of his subsequent music did. Purely in terms of personal response, TB2 soared far above it, for instance.

So when I heard about the TB2003 project, it didn't excite me. I didn't rush out to buy a copy on release. But a few weeks ago I had a bit of spare cash; I'd come across some of the controversy surrounding it; so I thought I'd buy one and have a go. Even then I didn't even play it for several days - it just lay around on the shelf. But there came a time when I popped it into the player, sat back with eyes closed, and listened.

I was entirely enchanted. I spent most of the time unaware of my surroundings, lost completely in the world of the music. I wasn't consciously comparing it with the original version; I was just listening to this for its own sake. Sometimes there were tears. And after it ended, I sat in silence for some time. My thoughts (I'm trying here to gather them up in an intelligible and coherent way) went something along these lines:

'Here I am, and here you are, Mike Oldfield - present in this music. And all these years have passed, and it's 2004 now, and you wanted to go back to this original piece of inspired genius, and rework it. (And why should you not? Who can possibly know better than you what next step your art should take?) And what a fantastic privilege it is for me to be able to sit here, and listen to the outcome of that adventure. And the marvel is that I'm still here (albeit nursing more than a bruise or two), and you're still here (with your own set of bruises I expect), and this music is still here, connecting us in this special way that only art can manage, allowing us to revisit our earlier selves. As T.S.Eliot said:

We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.
'

That's the best I can do as a kind of summary of those afterthoughts.

Two of Britain's greatest painters were Turner and Constable. Even as mature artists, they both continually referred to the sketchbooks they'd filled as young men, reworking in new ways ideas that had germinated long before. In continually revisiting Tubular Bells, Mike is only doing what many great artists have done before him. So I don't feel ripped off; I feel inspired. I don't think TB2003 sounds tired or synthetic; I think it sounds marvellous. I don't care whether it's 'better' or 'worse' than the original version, because I don't have to choose. I have both.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Dec. 20 2004, 15:01

Y'know, I was listening to TB2003 again this morning, and it came up as fresh and bright and beautiful as a May morning. I always admired the first version enormously, but I never loved it. I'm starting to fall in love with this.
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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: May 08 2005, 05:34

Being someone who was introduced to TB2003 first and then progressed to just having heard the original on radio... I have these comments...

The original sounds more ommadawny. And I can't make out the seperate layers as easily. Perhaps these two things were what contributed to the more 'spooky' atmosphere it is associated with. I certainly am not spooked by TB2003, it's pleasant, calming and beautiful.


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Arron J Eagling

Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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