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SFranse Group: Members Posts: 1 Joined: Mar. 2006 Posted: Mar. 19 2006, 08:46 Hi, When I looked at the lyrics for Moonlight Shadow on this site ( http://tubular.net/lyrics/MoonlightShadow.shtml for the extended version and : http://tubular.net/lyrics/Crises.shtml#2 for the normal version ) I noticed the lyrics for the extended version say "Lost in a river last saturday night" while according to the lyrics for the normal version it should be : "Lost in a riddle last saturday night". Does anyone know which is the correct one ? I've listened to the song for quite a few times now and always assumed it was "Lost in a riddle THAT saturday night" but well, perhaps I'm just hearing things. Back to top

Bill Bobaggins Group: Members Posts: 477 Joined: June 2005 Posted: Mar. 19 2006, 09:30 I just watched the live version (Colombian Volocano Disaster concert from 1985) and it sounded very clearly to me that she sang "lost in a riddle that Saturday night". -------------- Speak friend and enter. Back to top

Ray Group: Members Posts: 857 Joined: Jan. 2000 Posted: Mar. 19 2006, 15:47 The EMI Virgin Music 1983 song book says "riddle". Other than that, it's a bit of a riddle........   Ray -------------- Looking out over the harbour in Peel....... Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Dec. 04 2008, 20:27 "Lost in a riddle last saturday night...faaaaaaar away on the other side".. See to me the whole song Moonlight Shadow is a riddle in itself.I mean you`ve just got to take one look at the line.."Four A.M. in the morning"???..As opposed to what exactly?..Four A.M. at night?..Yeah that`s what the A.M. bit`s for Mike,that`s the bit that tells you it`s in the morning anyway you see.And then the other four o` clock,the P.M. one.That normaly comes around sometime during the late afternoon so`s to speak.Hardly suprising "she" was lost in a riddle at night,when he`s already told us it was the morning twice in one line. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 05:15 Quote (Dirk Star @ Dec. 04 2008, 20:27) ."Four A.M. in the morning"???..As opposed to what exactly?..Four A.M. at night?.. Dirk, strictly speaking, you're right; this is tautological. But when you remember that every poem or song expresses a point of view, you can say that the "unnecessary" repetition could simply point to the protagonist's dazed point of view - the dazedness produced by the death or by the simple fact that most people are dazed at 4 am. What grates with me is the line "Like a shining pearl/They sang with one voice" from "Flying Start": it's hard to imagine any point of view justifying this mixed metaphor (it's a mixed metaphor because pearls don't sing). Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 06:23 Quote (nightspore @ Dec. 05 2008, 10:15) Quote What grates with me is the line "Like a shining pearl/They sang with one voice" from "Flying Start": it's hard to imagine any point of view justifying this mixed metaphor (it's a mixed metaphor because pearls don't sing). Yeah my favourite example of that is in the Paul Weller song Broken Stones.."Like broken stones.. we`re trying to find our way home"?? And then because in the rest of the song he uses all these "pebble beach" type metaphors.I always get this ridiculous image of all these little stone/rock people with napsacks hitching a ride on the shoreline. I have read that Mike Oldfield just kind of "knocked out" the lyrics to Moonlight Shadow in a hurry,so Maggie would have something to sing when she turned up at the studio.So I dare say it`s likely Mike never even noticed it at all.Besides which I don`t think "four o` clock" scans right lyricaly somehow,even if he did consider alternatives?Although of course we`re all so used to "four a.m." now anyway,it makes it difficult to be subjective I guess?I like your "dazed point of view" theory though,which was kind of what I was alluding to myself there in a daft way. For me personaly though there`s quite a few lines in Moonlight Shadow that would probably leave me cringing,were it not such a great little song..So things like "Four a.m." and "a hundred and five", which imo are almost gramaticaly silly as each other really.Well yeah I`ll still belt them out with the utmost conviction while I`m singing along to it if you know what I mean. Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 08:11 I was listening to Islands the other day, for the first time in quite a while, and the lyrics really started to annoy me after a while. I can't go past Magic Touch, with "Love is a gift and to take you so much." I don't think it's even gramatically correct. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

3Wheeler Group: Members Posts: 828 Joined: Aug. 2007 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 09:31 Some Lyric Sites quote  "Riddle" most "River"...  But Maggie sings Riddle.. Maybe River was the original Idea but Riddle sounded better later and thats what was decided on when it was recorded...    Lost in a Riddle sounds better anyway..    Go Maggie...!! -------------- We're Flying Aeroflot, We've Got Reservations. Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 10:09 Do we know for a fact that pearls don't sing?  Wouldn't it be fairer to say that they just don't sing around us? Edited to add:  I think MO would probably be the first to say that his main strength may not be lyrics (not that era, anyway).  What's wrong with using lyrics purely for the way they sound?  (Slightly off-topic: Anyone care for a spot of "goo-goo-ga-joob"?)  And if we were going to start dismissing lyrics just for having the occasional nonsensical line here and there... oh my God, where would you start?   Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 11:41 According to Mrs Elkie Brooks "Pearl`s a singer"..So there ya` go case solved..Mind you she then goes on to say that they stand up and play pianos in nightclubs etc,so maybe she was dropping some pretty weird shit back in those days?..Who knows? Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 18:24 Quote (Dirk Star @ Dec. 05 2008, 06:23) .Besides which I don`t think "four o` clock" scans right lyricaly somehow, In the days of rigid poetic meter people would say that a poem didn't "scan" when its pattern of stressed and unstressed syllables (and the number of them) didn't meet what was expected for the kind of poem. For example, a sonnet with 5 iambs (an unstressed syllable followed by a stressed) per line would be said not to scan if the poet, for no discernible reason, introduced a line with 6 dactyls (a stressed syllable followed by two unstressed). These days all that's really important is that the beat of the song doesn't fall on and therefore emphasize an unimportant word or syllable. From memory "Moonlight Shadow" avoids that trap quite well (as do the songs on "Islands", from memory). The worst example of a false stress I can think of is in Pink Floyd's "Cirrus Minor" (a song I otherwise like) where virtually every emphasis is on an unimportant word. ("IN a churchyard/BY a river..." Their "Fletcher Memorial Home" on The Final Cut is likewise bad, where Roger "I'm such a good lyricist" Waters intones "Are you having A nice time?" (That is he puts all the emphasis on the most unimportant word in the line, the indefinite article.) Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 18:27 Quote (Bassman @ Dec. 05 2008, 10:09) Do we know for a fact that pearls don't sing?  Wouldn't it be fairer to say that they just don't sing around us? That's a nice fairytale image, Bassman! The Persians believed that pearls were formed when oysters rose from their beds at night to look at the moon, and trapped dew in their shells. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 18:31 Quote (Bassman @ Dec. 05 2008, 10:09) I think MO would probably be the first to say that his main strength may not be lyrics (not that era, anyway).  What's wrong with using lyrics purely for the way they sound? I get the impression he has lyric ability but that he sometimes rushes lyrics in the belief that they're of secondary importance. And of course there's nothing wrong with using words for the way they sound, as "Celt" and the chant from "Taurus 2" testify! Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Dec. 05 2008, 21:21 @nightspore..I actualy quite like that Fletcher Memorial track,but I get what you`re saying there totally.I`m not the greatest fan of old Roger`s lyrics myself either,but I do think that The Final Cut is maybe one of their most under-rated albums.The thing with Waters though is that he can go from "false stress" to "over egging the pudding" if you like.So in the same song you get "WASTERS of life and limb".Which to be honest just does`nt sit right for me either somehow!?..I suppose that example is more a matter of personal taste though really. The band that always winds me up on the whole "false stress" thing is the Manic Street Preachers.Who somehow or other,always manage to make even the most smallest of words have about 25 syllables in it.I don`t even care that they write the lyrics first,which a lot of people kind of say in their defence.To me that`s just like admitting to the fact that "yeah you`re right,they don`t work as songs"..I don`t know?I think Bassman`s right though,we`ll be on here forever if we start picking away at every little lyric that ever annoyed us in some way.But then in a weird way some of them can be quite entertaining as well.Like the Thin Lizzy song Jailbreak for instance which is an oft quoted example...Tonight there`s going to be a jailbreak...Somewhere in this town?...Yeah you might want to check that big old building with the bars on it Phil,chances are it`ll be going down in that vicinity mate.   And I totally agree with you about Mike Oldfield as a lyricist,that`s always been the "impression" I`ve kind of had on it as well. Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Dec. 06 2008, 11:43 Don't get me wrong... I'd love to spend forever picking apart lyrics.  But before you know it, we'd have decimated the entire ouvre of popular music!  My problem is I just wouldn't know when to stop (ha ha).  I love discussing Roger's in particular.  It just bloody breaks my heart that, inasmuch as Gilmour was the perfect musical foil for him, they couldn't keep it together.  It's so damn ironic that now that Roger's extended his hand across the aisle, it's Dave that's moved on.  I feel that Roger, as a singer, was a better actor, and always gave his vocal an extra dramatic edge that pushed the message through even when his sense of pitch or phrasing failed him.  Particularly on "The Final Cut".  It's a really powerful record, even if it has all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.   But I could go on for days about this stuff, and I don't want to jack the thread any further. It also occurred to me that MO deliberately employed "4 AM in the morning" as some sort of wacky double-negative, intending to infer 4PM.  But that would just make the whole thing retarded.  Or too clever-clever.  No point barking up that tree at all! Back to top

Inkanta Group: Admins Posts: 1453 Joined: Feb. 2000 Posted: Dec. 06 2008, 18:48 Indeed, a few years ago, Mike said in an interview that he was up all night writing those lyrics with the help of a rhyming dictionary. When I write when I'm really tired (heh--3/4 of the time! ) I get redundant, e.g., catch after the fact that I've used "actually" twice in the same sentence.  I chuckle about 4AM in the morning, too (as opposed to 4AM in the....afternoon? twilight? hehehe) but  I feel for him.  I MAY have that interview transcribed somewhere -- a couple of  computer crashes ago, so I'll have to see. I don't think we every uploaded it here. ))-: BTW....talk about misheard lyrics (rather than your life ) --I used to think that it was "lost in a river that Saturday night."  Well...made sense to me...there were trees, far away on the other side (of the river, hahaha).  The saga of misheard lyrics continues. One of my favorite songs this year is Carptree's "Evening Sadness."  I thought that a section of the lyrics was, "Spring will bring back everything...with a dew...with a dew....with a dew."  Noooo....it's "without you....without you....without you..." Cheers, Inkanta, in search of a remedy for her cloth eared condition -------------- "No such thing as destiny; only choices exist." From:  Moongarden's "Solaris." Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1980 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Dec. 07 2008, 01:17 Sorry kids. Its lost in a "mirror" that Sat. night. Its all about reflection. Life, soul, religion, astroffffizics.......... Just seeing if yer payin' attention. Jimbo -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1980 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Dec. 07 2008, 01:26 Gosh, I've been here a year in 5 more days. My, time flies. We need to do something special on the 12th. Any ideas? Happy holidays Tubular folk.   -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Dec. 07 2008, 05:40 [quote=Inkanta,Dec. 06 2008, 23:48][/quote] Quote Mike said in an interview that he was up all night writing those lyrics with the help of a rhyming dictionary. Oh well that completely contradicts what I said earlier,about Mike knocking those lyrics out in a hurry.The poor guy was up till 4 a.m. in the morning working on that thing,can`t blame him for the odd slip here and there.Added to which he was probably being put off by all those "whispering trees" outside of his window..  "Hey shut the hell up out there guys,I`m trying to write a rock classic here". As much as I love Maggie`s voice,I don`t think her pronounciation helps sometimes in deciphering some of the lyrics.For instance I used to think she sang  seeing YULE in heaven...one day???..Even though I knew for a fact,and in the context of the song it had to be "you" (cue Frank Sinatra moment there) I`d still here "Yule" every time I listened to it.I can still here it when I listen to it today in fact...Moonlight Shadow,yet another Mike Olfield piece I`ll always associate with Christmas.Add it to the ever growing list,and compile a mix-tape. Back to top

Inkanta Group: Admins Posts: 1453 Joined: Feb. 2000 Posted: Dec. 07 2008, 09:21 Hahahaha!  Yes, trees can be so irritating! (-; Dirk, I'd say pulling an "all- nighter" to compose lyrics was pretty hurried and last-minute.   -------------- "No such thing as destiny; only choices exist." From:  Moongarden's "Solaris." Back to top

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