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the Somme Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: Nov. 2008 Posted: Nov. 09 2008, 22:44 I'm a big fan of Mogwai. If they've made a bad record, I've yet to hear it. Consistently brilliant since 1994. Entire catalogue is fantastic. Try these: Their 1998 ep "No Education=No Future (F**k The Curfew)", their ep from '99 "Stanley Kubrick", any of their consistently fantastic albums, starting with their 1997 debut "Mogwai Young Team", '99's "Come On Die Young", 2001's jaw-droppingly good "Rock Action"......right up to their latest "The Hawk Is Howling". Mogwai:Guitars=Right. -------------- on this station you will hear gospel and rhythm and blues and jazz. all those are just labels. we know that music is music Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Nov. 10 2008, 19:23 To me, the two best things in the Mogwai catalogue are, by a fairly large margin, Mogwai Young Team and the EP+6 compilation. Among the others, I think Mr. Beast, Ten Rapid and Happy Songs for Happy People are worth checking out by most people here. First impressions on the new record weren't that hot, but I need to check it out more times. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Nov. 10 2008, 19:28 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Nov. 11 2008, 01:23) Happy Songs for Happy People I've only heard that one. Honestly it blends together in my mind with what I've heard of Godspeed You! Black Emperor and Sigur Rós... none of which is bad stuff, but it never really made me want to explore that avenue further. Back to top

the Somme Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: Nov. 2008 Posted: Nov. 10 2008, 21:48 "Happy Songs For Happy People" is a fine album. 'EP+6' is 1999's "Stanley Kubrick" ep expanded into a mini LP by adding six tracks, which I think are the tracks which made up the 1997-98 eps "F**k The Curfew" & "Mogwai 4 Satin". I can't quite remember. Does 'EP+6' have "Stereodee" and "Small Children In The Background" on it? If so, then that's what it is. "Ten Rapid" is a collection of songs recorded prior to their being signed by Chemikal Underground Records. Many of them are embryonic versions of things which would appear on the first 2 LPs. A lot of them are scarcely more than demos, to be fair. "A Place For Parks" is brilliant, though. -------------- on this station you will hear gospel and rhythm and blues and jazz. all those are just labels. we know that music is music Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Nov. 11 2008, 11:28 Quote (the Somme @ Nov. 10 2008, 21:48) 'EP+6' is 1999's "Stanley Kubrick" ep expanded into a mini LP by adding six tracks, which I think are the tracks which made up the 1997-98 eps "F**k The Curfew" & "Mogwai 4 Satin". I can't quite remember. Does 'EP+6' have "Stereodee" and "Small Children In The Background" on it? If so, then that's what it is. Exactly. I think EP+6 works extremely well as a combination of several different aspects of the band. The albums generally concentrate in very few of them, and EP+6 gives a very broad overview, which goes from the melodic sensitivity of Stanley Kubrick and Christmas Song, the mastery of repetition and dynamics on Burn Girl Prom Queen and Small Children in the Background, the epic soundscapes of Xmas Steps and Superheroes of BMX, AND the brain-explodingly amazing sonic avalanche of Stereodee. Also, I think the album works WAY better when you reverse the order of the EPs, so you start with Stanley Kubrick, proceed into No Education = No Future and end with 4 Satin. I haven't been able to wrap my brain around Godspeed You! Black Emperor yet, as they seem VERY heavyhanded and serious. Mogwai sounds a lot more irreverent and, at times, humourous. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4766 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Nov. 11 2008, 18:39 Quote (the Somme @ Nov. 10 2008, 21:48) "Happy Songs For Happy People" is a fine album. If Mike did an album titled that way, what would it be called? My guess is "Songs of Loss for the Terminally Celtic"! Back to top

the Somme Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: Nov. 2008 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 17:18 "Lengthy Songs For Fussy People"? Only jokin'. Sir Mustapha, I tend to agree with you, about Godspeed YBE. Take themselves way too seriously. An unfortunate result of which is that they can often find themselves playing what can only be described as jazz. Often at great and excruciating length. A workmate of mine is an absolute devotee (of GYBE) and never misses an opportunity to play their records to absolute death at work. I found I liked a lot of it, but have to draw the line when it becomes, as I said, bleedin' jazz. I tend to not like music press labels for 'genres', but I can kind of see how bands like this are 'post rock'. But, if you can accept that rock and roll music swept the snotty and elitist cliques of the jazz crowd away, then you can't really champion a 'post rock' band which resorts to jazz. It's like those student types who start off telling you that "Carry On Camping" is a masterpiece of the cinema, just to be provocative and ironic, but actually end up believing it to be true, and painstakingly construct an argument for it being true. Anyway, back to Glasgow's greatest ever band (with apologies, obviously to any Simple Minds fans) Mogwai: An album of the 'gwai's which hasn't (I think) been mentioned here, and one which does tend to be overlooked by even diehard Mogwai fans is their 2nd, "Come On Die Young". It's the classic 2nd album, borne on the success and the resultant euphoria of a well received 1st one, recorded in a fashionable studio (Tarbox Road Studios in upstate NY) at great expense by a 'name' producer (Dave Fridmann), and it undoubtedly sounds like it: It's probably far too long and way too overproduced. But it's also quite brilliant. Flawed, but brilliant. Any rubbish band can spend a barrowload of cash turning out an hour and a bit of turgid crap recorded in crystal clear sound. Mogwai, however, are a brilliant band, and 'CODY', with the excess fat trimmed away still contains such bona fide quality as "Ex-Cowboy", "May Nothing But Happiness Come Through Your Door", "Xmas Steps" (a very different version from the EP one) and many others. For the hour plus it plays, not once does jazz rear it's ugly head. -------------- on this station you will hear gospel and rhythm and blues and jazz. all those are just labels. we know that music is music Back to top

Holger Group: Members Posts: 1506 Joined: Feb. 2003 Posted: Nov. 13 2008, 18:29 Somme, I'm sorry but I don't get any of this jazz stuff you're talking about. Quote But, if you can accept that rock and roll music swept the snotty and elitist cliques of the jazz crowd away, then you can't really champion a 'post rock' band which resorts to jazz. Pardon? No, I can't accept that, sorry. As if jazz, of all things, was something that needed to be "swept away"? Seriously. What's next? Classical won't do any more either, being also "snotty and elitist"? Punk rock reigns supreme? "Bleedin' jazz" rears its "ugly head"? What on earth are you talking about? It's fine and well if you don't like jazz, but do you really have to try and force your opinion on us like that? Quote It's like those student types who start off telling you that "Carry On Camping" is a masterpiece of the cinema, just to be provocative and ironic, but actually end up believing it to be true, and painstakingly construct an argument for it being true. What exactly are you talking about anyway? Jazz in general? Are you seriously dismissing the whole genre as worthless? Honestly, I've rarely been that stumped by a post on this board. Please tell me it's a misunderstanding. Back to top

the Somme Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: Nov. 2008 Posted: Nov. 23 2008, 17:25 Quote (Holger @ Nov. 13 2008, 18:29) Somme, I'm sorry but I don't get any of this jazz stuff you're talking about. Quote But, if you can accept that rock and roll music swept the snotty and elitist cliques of the jazz crowd away, then you can't really champion a 'post rock' band which resorts to jazz. Pardon? No, I can't accept that, sorry. As if jazz, of all things, was something that needed to be "swept away"? Seriously. What's next? Classical won't do any more either, being also "snotty and elitist"? Punk rock reigns supreme? "Bleedin' jazz" rears its "ugly head"? What on earth are you talking about? It's fine and well if you don't like jazz, but do you really have to try and force your opinion on us like that? Quote It's like those student types who start off telling you that "Carry On Camping" is a masterpiece of the cinema, just to be provocative and ironic, but actually end up believing it to be true, and painstakingly construct an argument for it being true. What exactly are you talking about anyway? Jazz in general? Are you seriously dismissing the whole genre as worthless? Honestly, I've rarely been that stumped by a post on this board. Please tell me it's a misunderstanding. What rock and roll music 'swept away' was the snotty and elitist culture of jazz, which prevented ordinary people from becoming musicians, even as amateurs. This is absolutely true. One can easily research the letters pages of papers like "Jazz News", "New Musical Express" and "Melody Maker" from the early to mid 1950s and witness the furious reaction of the trad jazz "establishment" to people from the working class, with no formal education as musicians, walking into music shops and buying guitars. Obviously, jazz is not worthless. Neither is "classical" music. Of course not. How could any music made in the past be "worthless"? It's all part of the history of music. Music makes, and will continue to make great artistic statements. It doesn't do so using symphony orchestras, or 'ragtime' quite as much as it used to, however. I firmly believe that there are only two types of music: Good music and bad music. There's good jazz and there are good piano sonatas. I'm just saying that you don't often hear musicians using either of these to break new ground. They don't have to, fortunately. Because the elitism of the past was swept aside half a century ago. So yes, punk rock reigns supreme. It's worth listening to "Come On Die Young" by Mogwai because it's a great record. But it's also worth a listen for Iggy Pop's monologue on "Punk Rock" which opens the album. -------------- on this station you will hear gospel and rhythm and blues and jazz. all those are just labels. we know that music is music Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Nov. 24 2008, 04:30 I was just going to mention the Iggy Pop soundbite, as it's interesting that Mogwai respects and follows the punk ethic so much, while making music that's so un-punk-like on surface. It shows punk rock doesn't reduce itself to three chord harmonies, chainsaw guitars and nasal vocals. Regarding the comment on jazz, it's a historical fact that we sometimes forget, that for centuries there's been a massive effort in keeping music confined, restricted to the "enlightened" circles of society, both in terms of musicians as well as in terms of listeners. What's funny is that the very roots of jazz music (i.e. blues) was every bit as subversive and dangerous as those of rock music; Ford forbid its employees from listening to jazz, because its improvised nature didn't match the industry's mechanical assembly line style. Can you believe that? Jazz was a "lowly" form of music! Years later it was "high art". And then rock came along. And then Prog rock came along, and the cycle was repeating itself. And I have to say, as much as I deeply love Genesis and King Crimson, Punk rock was necessary. Without it, we wouldn't have the Cure, the Flaming Lips, Talking Heads, Radiohead, Arcade Fire, and so many acts that I should just stop here. Punk rock seems to be a far more lasting movement because it is anti-establishment at its very essence, and not only in a musical aspect. How can you turn punk into "high art"? Pretty hard. I don't think it's being proposed to bury jazz music itself, because after all, its fruits are far too valuable even today. Look at Frank Zappa. Look at Squarepusher. What's being proposed is to keep music wide open and accessible. If there are too many kids making worthless noise on MTV, that's not a bad price to pay, as there's much more space for innovation today; and if you don't hear any innovation, you're hearing the wrong places. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Nov. 24 2008, 04:58 Of course, once we've said that music should be free and open, we can't really complain about music that sounds 'elitist'. Some people want to write fiendishly technical solos. Some people want to write albums called () with no track titles. I do find it ironic that punk music is talked about as the catalyst for this openess, as punk was not about being open and inclusive. It didn't want to coexist with Yes, ELP and Genesis, it wanted to erase them from history. I hate elitism, but I also hate that reverse-elitism (if that's even a word) that punk started with. If anyone can make any music they want, that means any music. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Nov. 24 2008, 11:04 Quote (raven4x4x @ Nov. 24 2008, 04:58) I hate elitism, but I also hate that reverse-elitism (if that's even a word) that punk started with. That depends. If what's in your mind is The Sex Pistols, then you should remember the whole band's image was but a commercial gimmick, so much that Johnny Rotten went on to form Public Image Ltd. later on. Other than that, the "exclusion" of the other bands was promoted more by the media and the music industry itself than by the bands. Besides, prog rock was already bloating itself to death by the time punk emerged. Prog wasn't a music form killed prematurely at its prime - Punk was just the final blow. Besides, the actually good punk bands themselves treaded their own paths and broke into new grounds. Remember The Clash? -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

the Somme Group: Members Posts: 13 Joined: Nov. 2008 Posted: Nov. 24 2008, 21:05 Hear, hear, Sir Mustapha and raven4x4x. After all, what exactly was the first 'punk rock' record? Some people note "My Generation" by The Who, others "Something Else" by Eddie Cochran. It could just as easily be "Roll Over Beethoven" by Chuck Berry. What these records have in common is rebellion and refusal to conform. Rock and roll music (which is essentially what we're talking about when we talk about 'punk rock'] is defined by it's anti-social element. It isn't rock and roll music, otherwise. It's "The X-Factor Lift Muzak Idol Live Phone Vote Final", which is getting tiresome. But, boy, aren't we rubbing our hands in expectation, knowing that a whole new breed of young snottery faced petty criminals are rehearsing somewhere right now, preparing to sweep it all aside, yet again? It's historically inevitable. Ultimately, music, and musicians, triumph over the music industry, I think. If we could reverse time and go back to 1975, we'd find there was always a Sex Pistols and a Clash, and always a Genesis, Yes and ELP getting out of their way. Consider how easy the record industry used to have it: You had a choice of which record you wanted to buy. This choice was provided for you by the daytime playlist of BBC Radio One. You made your choice and the record you bought would be played the following Thursday on 'Top Of The Pops'. Essentially EMI, RCA and CBS were telling you whose poster was going on your bedroom wall, and exactly where you were making your 'emotional investment'. Have I called that wrong? I don't think I have. Is that what makes us love music? I don't think it is. What Simon Cowell (whose 'day job' used to be A&R chief for RCA!] and the rest of the 'biz' have been momentarily blinded to, as it routinely cancels contracts and sacks musicians left right and centre in order to put money into TV talent shows which will provide us with the next great version of "Unchained Melody" is that music will prevail, always. Like the slightly fragile wee lassie says on the opening of "Mogwai Young Team": Music is bigger than words and wider than pictures. -------------- on this station you will hear gospel and rhythm and blues and jazz. all those are just labels. we know that music is music Back to top

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