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Topic: MILLENIUM BELL, verdict< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 08 2005, 08:57

Might as well leave this here as long as it's not going to continue for much longer (because splitting threads is a big pain in the backside! Hmm...I can see potential for a joke in that, I'll leave it to hiawatha though), the topic's wandered quite a bit away from The Millennium Bell already. Might be best to just abandon this one and start a new one for any more discussion actually!

My current focus is really integrating parts of the site more tightly, and expanding the features to boot. One such expansion could be the ability to submit reviews of albums, which would then be accessible through the discography section. That would I think be a possible outlet for short articles - they could be fitted into other places too, I'd imagine, we'll have to see. Olivier's currently working on the back end that will drive such things - once things start taking shape more, we'll be able to discuss further uses of it more seriously. I've got a whole shedload of other things in mind, but those can definitely wait for another time and another topic.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: May 08 2005, 17:40

Quote (Ratty @ May 07 2005, 19:48)
Hey Sir M, as my post seemed to start the latest round of discussion, i`ll reply now. I took your point but you really do need to understand the history surrounding "Amazing Grace" It was written by John Newton in 1774 after he had suffered intolerable abuse at the hands of merchant seamen because of his opposition to the slave trade. He finally became a ship captain and vowed that the slaves under his care would be treated humanely. The african chants and the lyrics you MOCK were a symbol of hope for the slaves on Newtons ships, the gospel choirs represent Newtons new found faith. The lyrics he penned were also based on the optimism shown by the slaves.

Sir M, there is history behind this song...it isnt a throw away tune Mike penned himself. He has used Africana influences for a reason. You may well be a critic, but you are young and need to brush up on your history and think before you write.

Gee, but... You know I wasn't bashing "Amazing Grace", don't you? I was actually bashing the way Mike butchered the poor song with his "hip" electronic artefacts and that disgusting female voice. Of course you may argue that he didn't butcher the song, but I think he did, and I'll say more: it even sounds like Mike himself is parodying the song. It's utter bad taste to me.

In fact, I knew (however superficially) about the story behind "Amazing Grace". I just didn't bring that up because, well, I was talking about "Sunlight Shining Through Cloud", not "Amazing Grace". Gee, you guys get worked up when I seem to get "heated up" on an argument, but some of you do like to make things sound bigger than they actually are, don't you?


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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 08 2005, 21:07

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ May 08 2005, 22:40)
...some of you do like to make things sound bigger than they actually are, don't you?

Only as much as you do ;)

I personally never thought a lot of the spoken parts in Sunlight Shining Through Cloud. Mike's picked the words of a male captain and given them to a woman. Perhaps that's an attempt at turning it on its head somehow, but I really can't work out quite what it's meant to mean. I also find that voice too similar to the singing voice, which is presumably intended as that of the slaves. I'd have wanted to make a much clearer distinction, were it my choice, and would have preferred to give John Newton's words to a more fitting voice.
I actually find the whole thing a bit odd, the words seem so strongly tied to the melody that they feel a bit odd when spoken - it's a bit like one of those William Shatner 'songs' :D. I think it would work better if it was spoken in a slightly more natural and 'dramatic' way. The way of speaking is actually quite a lot like that on To Be Free - Mike's style, I suppose, but not a style that does much for me, I'm afraid.
Had it been me, I think I'd have picked words which weren't lyrics to a well known song. I rather wonder how long Mike spent looking for those...from what I can make out, they were added rather late in the making of the album.

I'm not too sure about the lyrics to The Doge's Palace either - what's the importance of those four doges whose names are sung? The sleeve notes make it sound like it was a rather random affair, like Mike just chose by putting a list of names on the wall and throwing darts at it while blindfolded, but maybe there was more to it than that! I do really feel that if lyrics are going to be there for their significance, they should truly be significant.

The spoken parts on Liberation don't do much for me either - I don't get the feeling thatthe voice we hear is that of someone who's virtually imprisoned in a small flat and really longs to be outside amongst the things she's describing. She sounds, to me, more like she is already out in the open air - which we know wouldn't have been the case.
Also, really, if it's about liberation...well, Anne Frank was never liberated. She really belongs in the war period of Broad Sunlit Uplands, although she is talking about hope beyond her suffering...
I think again, I'd personally have approached it differently, and had Anne Frank's diary read over gentle music beds during Broad Sunlit Uplands (perhaps alongside the clip of Churchill...and how about Hitler?), framed by the sounds of approaching destruction (distant bombs, gunfire, burning?) and the BSU theme, finishing with some kind of sonic climax and a segue into Liberation, which could then include sound bytes of first hand accounts from people who actually experienced liberation at the end of World War II...and perhaps as the piece continues, they could be mixed with more modern interpretations of liberation, fitting with Mike's aims of it being a piece about the coming of the modern age (which it doesn't come across as to me - it's mostly Anne Frank, until the modern age comes in right at the end in the form of a few radio noises).

In the end, it doesn't feel terribly well thought through to me. It seems more like the seeds of something to be built on. I also feel it's a bit of a shame how the orchestral recordings were handled - they seem rather heavily compressed, and lacking life as a result. Compare them to Mont St Michel and you may hear what I mean - that track is far more open and lively sounding (the acoustic guitar too - the classical guitar on Lake Constance has the same rather compressed sound that the acoustic guitars on Tubular Bells 2003 have...again, not my kind of thing, I'm afraid), I'd rather hear the recordings 'breathe' more.

Anyway, enough of my back seat driver's suggestions. I'll just slope off back to doing my own stuff where I make the decisions instead!
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: May 09 2005, 03:52

Quote (Korgscrew @ May 09 2005, 02:07)
I actually find the whole thing a bit odd, the words seem so strongly tied to the melody that they feel a bit odd when spoken - it's a bit like one of those William Shatner 'songs' :D. I think it would work better if it was spoken in a slightly more natural and 'dramatic' way.

Yes, that stilted talking is definitely odd, and awkward, and gives rise to a certain kind of tension that makes me feel gradually more uncomfortable ... a kind of 'how long is this going to go on' sort of feeling, wanting to scratch the itch. But I've always thought it was deliberate - a way of inducing a feeling of being trapped which is released when the sunlight comes shining through clouds. It certainly works that way for me.

There have been a few occasions when, having completely immersed myself in it, I've found myself swaying gently from side to side, eyes closed, with the beginnings of tears - and it feels right; it feels as if that's an appropriate response.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: May 09 2005, 12:32

Quote (Korgscrew @ May 08 2005, 21:07)
Quote (Sir Mustapha @ May 08 2005, 22:40)
...some of you do like to make things sound bigger than they actually are, don't you?

Only as much as you do ;)

Hey! But I don't remember speculating the other people's posts as much as that! In fact, in many discussions, it's always me who has to explain himself over and over again to avoid being severelly misunderstood. It like a single word I say slams me violently against one absolute extreme opinion, and another word is enough to slam me against the opposite extreme opinion.

Well, alright. About the song: I think it's the voice itself that makes me cringe, and not the intention (whatever it is!! ). To me, it kind of sounds like Mike said to the woman, "try speaking these lyrics just like Ralf Hütter did with 'The Hall Of Mirrors', you know? I want just that effect." And whatever the hell Mike wanted with that, the result sounds worse than a car crash.


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: May 09 2005, 12:44

Gee but, hey but, something about, draggingonadiscussionaboutanextremellytrivialmatter.

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I, ON THE OTHER HAND. AM A VICTIM OF YOUR CARNIVOUROUS LUNAR ACTIVITY.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: May 09 2005, 12:54

I do drag discussions on and on, but I don't make people sound like they said things they never did!

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Alan D Offline




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Posted: May 09 2005, 17:06

Quietly refraining from comment.

... Or did that count as a comment?

Hmmm. (Reaches for philosophy book)
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far above the clouds Offline




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Posted: Aug. 31 2005, 12:37

Ok- Millennium Bell. When I first took the cd home and popped it in I was enveloped with emotion and feeling. Snapshots of major history in musical form. So many bad vibes about this whole concept. I love this album. I love the Art In Heaven dvd. A celebration of humanity in song. Hope for the new millennium. It is a matter of taste quite obviously, but taken as a whole, it is still in my opinion, a musical statement and concept that only Mike Oldfield would have the gall to release. My girlfriend loves it! I love it!

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The Bell(end) Offline




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Posted: Aug. 31 2005, 12:42

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ May 04 2005, 20:09)
Well, it has kitsch value...

What is kitsch? Please!  :/

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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 31 2005, 12:53

Quote (far above the clouds @ Aug. 31 2005, 17:37)
I love this album. I love the Art In Heaven dvd. A celebration of humanity in song. Hope for the new millennium. It is a matter of taste quite obviously, but taken as a whole, it is still in my opinion, a musical statement and concept that only Mike Oldfield would have the gall to release. My girlfriend loves it! I love it!

Well said, that man! I don't think I love the album itself in the way you do, but I do agree with everything else you said.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Aug. 31 2005, 14:19

Quote (The Bell(end) @ Aug. 31 2005, 12:42)
What is kitsch? Please!  :/

Take a look at this page. It more or less sums up what I tried to say.

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AlexS Offline




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Posted: Nov. 09 2005, 04:59

I haven't played it for quite some time. But I was disappointed in it when it came out - although it does have some lovely musical parts, it didn;t sound very Oldfield. It worked well live in Berlin though, and I think that's really what it was written for.

It's not an album I play very often, so it could be a good one to rediscover.


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Nov. 09 2005, 05:48

Quote (AlexS @ Nov. 09 2005, 09:59)
It worked well live in Berlin though, and I think that's really what it was written for.

It's not an album I play very often

Interesting observation, that. I've listened to the Berlin show (which seems inexhaustible) far, far more often than I've played the studio recording of Millenium Bell (which I only rarely put in the player).
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gbcrvh Offline




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Posted: May 12 2007, 18:18

It's strange album.  It was the last album by MO I bought even I have said I would never buy it.  Reason was that I had live DVD and didn't like it.  Actually only song which did get into my ears was Mastermind.  Then I found it cheap in Amsterdam and I bought it.  After listening to it twice I still didn't like it as there were only 2 or 3 song I liked.

However, tonight I listened album for 4th time and I found that I liked it.  Very strange.  Actually it left as Mastemind which I liked before doesn't belong here.  No idea why this change.  Could be because lately I've been listening to Jenkins allot and some of his work shares styles used for this album.

It is not album that I see listening all the time, but obviously has its own time and place.  Some of the songs on this albums are really really good.
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ThisName Offline




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Posted: May 12 2007, 18:49

Not one of my favorite albums but I certainly don't think its terrible. It has some spine tingling moments but overall lacks a little. Still, I don't condemn it at all, if anything, Islands is the album which makes me go cold....

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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: July 07 2007, 02:03

What a lot of surprises there are on The Millenium Bell! I almost didn't buy this CD, but now I'm glad I did. My current favorite pieces are:

Pacha Mama
Sunlight Shining Through Cloud
The Doge's Palace
Lake Constance
Mastermind
Liberation


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"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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trcanberra Offline




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Posted: Mar. 07 2008, 20:55

Quote (AlexS @ Nov. 09 2005, 04:59)
I haven't played it for quite some time. But I was disappointed in it when it came out - although it does have some lovely musical parts, it didn;t sound very Oldfield. It worked well live in Berlin though, and I think that's really what it was written for.

It's not an album I play very often, so it could be a good one to rediscover.

Interesting comment - on my first listen last night I commented to my daughter when Mike's guitar came in strongly mid CD that I had almost forgotten he was there - maybe it was his name missing from the cover   :)

In spite of that, I was still enjoying the album a lot.  I like the fact that Mike can occasionally come up with music that isn't signature laden yet still enthralls.

I also like the fresh feel that the "live" recording imparts, which is also interesting as I saw Mike in an interview saying that part of the reason he did TB2003 was because the original was so rushed, yet here he is in 1999 comfortable enought to have a cast of ?hundreds? do this immensely complex series of pieces in 1 day.

For me, another example that Mike is still the genius even in the later albums.
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Mar. 08 2008, 11:41

Millenium Bell; It's the most uncool album in the world. I agree with everything Sir Mustapha said about this album, and it's been entertaining to read the discussion in this thread. It goes something like this:

Sir M: The Millenium Bell, it's really shit innit?

The others: Oh nooo, it's not!

Sir M: But...it really is shit!

The others: Yeah, in a way but...why do you say that?

Sir M: Because I think it's shit.

The others: Stop being so negative.  If you don't have anything nice to say about Mike, then don't say anything.

Sir M: But I really don't like this album.

The others: Let's end this discussion, people are getting upset now, plus I'm thinking of re-working the site (!).

I know it's not my site, but sometimes I think there's an awful lot of intolerance on this forum.


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trcanberra Offline




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Posted: Mar. 09 2008, 04:26

Quote (larstangmark @ Mar. 08 2008, 11:41)
Millenium Bell; It's the most uncool album in the world. I agree with everything Sir Mustapha said about this album, and it's been entertaining to read the discussion in this thread. It goes something like this:

Sir M: The Millenium Bell, it's really shit innit?

The others: Oh nooo, it's not!

Sir M: But...it really is shit!

The others: Yeah, in a way but...why do you say that?

Sir M: Because I think it's shit.

The others: Stop being so negative.  If you don't have anything nice to say about Mike, then don't say anything.

Sir M: But I really don't like this album.

The others: Let's end this discussion, people are getting upset now, plus I'm thinking of re-working the site (!;).

I know it's not my site, but sometimes I think there's an awful lot of intolerance on this forum.

Don't forget the plaintive "I like it" from me at the end  ;)
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