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pantofis Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: Feb. 2006 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 12:27 Hi, somewhere I read this war Mike's album after the cure "Exegesis". Some reviewers write it's fresh because of that. I don't quite understand this viewpoint. This album sounds to me like a labyrith...no way out, no way in... It sounds like a torture sometimes, sometimer like a revelation, sometimes like a bore. Well, not all too different from the previous albums. That's why I wanted to ask: what is the "mental state" issue of this album? Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1759 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 14:02 From what I've read Mike only wrote part 1 and 4 after his exegesis course. I think you can hear a difference. Parts 2 and 3 are more dreamlike. Parts 1 and 4 are more bouncy and energetic. There's almost a disco-like rhythm towards the end of part 1. At the time Mike said his favorite part of Incantations was the beginning of part 4 - and there's almost a jazz/fusion influence there. Mike worked a lot with Pierre Moerelen at the time, and Pierre was a scientologist. Many musicians was into these kind of things. Lars T -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Feb. 01 2006, 14:26 Quote (larstangmark @ Feb. 01 2006, 14:02) From what I've read Mike only wrote part 1 and 4 after his exegesis course. I think you can hear a difference. Parts 2 and 3 are more dreamlike. Parts 1 and 4 are more bouncy and energetic. There's almost a disco-like rhythm towards the end of part 1. I think it might be mixed. Only the middle of part 3 can be described as "dreamlike" to me. Sections of part 4 are, I think, the oldest parts of the album. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

jonnyw Group: Members Posts: 522 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Feb. 03 2006, 08:09 Im curious, what is "exegesis"? -------------- Grand piano. Reed and pipe organ. Glockenspeil. Bass guitar. Vocal chords. Two slightly sampled electric guitars. The venitian effect. Digital sound processor. And Tubular bells. Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Feb. 03 2006, 09:41 Exegesis was a programme that Mike went through about that time to help him deal with the problems that he had in his life at the time. There are other threads out there that discuss this specifically - I won't go into it too far here (some people think that discussing things like Mike's childhood are too personal for inluding on a general public forum, but hey) but he supposedly went under a mental transformation, a recentering. Supposedly, this would have affected his creative output, which is why it's being discussed here. It's not really that we're obsessive. No, really...   -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

Guru Meditation Group: Members Posts: 55 Joined: May 2003 Posted: Feb. 20 2007, 08:50 I'll tell you what the mental state was: Jarre's Oxygene. Oldifled tried to go down those lines but it didn't quite work. Only the parts of the album that were not influenced by Oxygene were great (say, finale) Back to top

ThisName Group: Members Posts: 307 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Feb. 21 2007, 05:43 @ Guru, I just want to make sure I read your post correctly. You are saying that Oldfield tried to write an 'oxygene' but failed to to do so? If you are comparing the two works in such a way then I feel I must laugh in hysterics! Whilst oxygene is a fine work and pioneering for its time, it could not be further away from incantations. IMHO oxygene is vastly inferior to this album in every possible way!!!!![U] -------------- www.ryanyardmusic.com Back to top

Guru Meditation Group: Members Posts: 55 Joined: May 2003 Posted: Feb. 25 2007, 16:46 ThisName, I tried to make it short and got ununderstood - I didn't say whay you imply, you would have to consume some very bad drugs to say that HOwever I was reffering to a different, more side-way influence. The very beggining of Incantations I see as an unsucesfull try to recreate the enigmatic quality of Oxygene, that Oldfield must have felt connected in a way with his TB opening (that first popularised it). You can also recognise principal similarity between Incantations and Oxygene openings, even Inc. instrumentation (the flutes) is reminiscent of Oxygene trademark sounds. But above all it's the repetitiveness of Incantations that shows Oxygene influence. Inc. is by far the most repetitive work of Oldfield, described by some criticists as "disco-inferno" - it didn't work at their's opinion as it doesn't in my. Most of those repetitive sections are mostly in minor, like on Oxygene, and even some melodic lines are down the lines of Oxygene melodic lines (for example, the voice-like section of Oxygene 1 compares wtih finale of Incantations part 1). Even some of the incant. percusions are reminiscent of Oxygene percusive sounds. When you know all of this and that Inc. were released just after Oxygene, you are inclined to believe that Oldfield was somewhat influenced by Oxygene. It was a PRINCIPAL AND SIDEWAYS influence, not anything like substantial musical influence you were talking about. After all, as far as I now Oldifled has low opinion on Jarre's music (at least he said so in a few interviews). I suppose that Oldfield just couldn't ignore the huge success of Oxygene in that time and tried to integrate a few things from it - or he may have realy liked some of Jarre's principal ideas. But I repeat, I think that this influence didn't work well and that the actual qualities of Incantations have little to do with it Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Feb. 25 2007, 23:14 I've listened to them both many many times and could not find any similarity. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

fragile Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: April 2006 Posted: Feb. 26 2007, 03:34 Mike`s Incantations was certainly influenced by David Bedford Odyssey (1976) Steve Reich Music for 18 Musicians (1976) Philip Glass North Star (1977) but he did not like Jean Michel Jarre at all ;-) Back to top

ThisName Group: Members Posts: 307 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Feb. 26 2007, 06:14 Guru Meditation, you could not be more wrong. The notion that there are similarities between incantations and oxygene is absurd. Whilst oxygene is minor in mode, Incantations uses quartel harmony essentially and one gets a sense of a more complex harmony then just traditional minor and major chords. If you play the opening chord of Incantations you will find that it consists of many notes, in sequence that is neither major nor minor. It's funny, I have been having a big musical debate in the Jarre forum recently and now I  feel like I am having one here! I think its a tad insulting to both composers to compare the two works because they could not be further away from each other. I think they both respect that their music was like chalk and cheese. -------------- www.ryanyardmusic.com Back to top

arsarnerit Group: Members Posts: 12 Joined: Jan. 2007 Posted: Feb. 26 2007, 14:53 Quote (Guru Meditation @ Feb. 25 2007, 22:46) But above all it's the repetitiveness of Incantations that shows Oxygene influence. Inc. is by far the most repetitive work of Oldfield, described by some criticists as "disco-inferno" - it didn't work at their's opinion as it doesn't in my. Most of those repetitive sections are mostly in minor, like on Oxygene, and even some melodic lines are down the lines of Oxygene melodic lines (for example, the voice-like section of Oxygene 1 compares wtih finale of Incantations part 1). Repetition is present in many of Mike's works, but this wasn't caused by Jarre's influence. Mike learnt about the use of repetition much earlier, in his teens, from Kevin Ayers. As Mike declared in an interview: Q: What was Kevin Ayers like? A: I liked hims a lot. He became my mentor. He loved his alcohol: we'd get into the Transit to go to Bingley or Lancaster or somewhere and he'd start drinking his bottle of wine. He taught me a lot- things like not being afraid of repetition: just because you repeat something doesn't mean you can't think of anything else to play. Like a mantra, it becomes trance-like after a while. (http://tubular.net/articles/01_07b.shtml) -------------- And the man in the rain picked up his bag of secrets, and journeyed up the mountainside, far above the clouds, and nothing was ever heard from him again, except for the sound of Tubular Bells. Back to top

fragile Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: April 2006 Posted: Feb. 26 2007, 17:10 @arsarnerit: yes, but the technics he used on Incantations is very much inspired by the minimalist composers and David Bedford. In Incantations he uses more interlocked patterns and akkord cycle- progressions than before or after that piece. Listen to "Music for 18 Musicians" or "Odyssey" and you will know what I mean... Back to top

hiawatha Group: Members Posts: 2391 Joined: Mar. 2004 Posted: Feb. 27 2007, 11:04 Quote (ThisName @ Feb. 26 2007, 06:14) Guru Meditation, you could not be more wrong. The notion that there are similarities between incantations and oxygene is absurd. I was only able to find one thing similar: both made occasional use of the "bubbly" sounding rising synth flute sound. That's about it. -------------- "In the land of the Dacotahs, Where the Falls of Minnehaha Flash and gleam among the oak-trees, Laugh and leap into the valley." - Song of Hiawatha Back to top

ThisName Group: Members Posts: 307 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Feb. 27 2007, 15:59 But really, they are not very similar at all though are they? -------------- www.ryanyardmusic.com Back to top

Guru Meditation Group: Members Posts: 55 Joined: May 2003 Posted: Feb. 27 2007, 20:47 I suppose you all expected to hear Oxygene 4 tune on Incantations But: @fragile: your infos peculiary stand out. I would accept that for "the end of the story" if I could only know how are you so sure? (I have >one< idea, but it's difficult to believe it...). As for the works you mentioned - never heared them and probably never will since it's difficult to find them arround (getting music by Internet is not my choice I own too much of it already), but I still have the feeling about Inc. - Oxy connection... not that it matters much anyway Back to top

fragile Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: April 2006 Posted: Feb. 28 2007, 02:44 go to www.stevereich.com and click on "multimedia" mp3: then you can download the first section of Music for 18 Musicians (the first performance in 1976). Mike was always very interested in that Minimal Scene (also Terry Riley´s Rainbow In Curved Air inspired his TB Patterns and later he recorded a part from Philip Glass North Star on Platinum). It is very close that Mike was also informed about the latest compositions in that scenes. And Musik for 18 Musicians has very many similarities to the minimal parts of Incantations. The other (slower) sections (Incant Part 2) are more a result of the collaboration with David Bedford on Odyssey (same Mystic- Arpeggio styles, same use of the choir). The Chordprogression is a very systematic one: never before Mike used chord cycles in 5th. (g-c-f-b-es-as-des.... etc....for example). Reich also uses chord cycles (but not through the key- more in a modal structure). Go also to http://sweetspotdvd.com/ that opens a video where you can see Reichs use of mallet instruments and rhythmic patterns. Back to top

Jeremy Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Feb. 28 2007, 02:48 Oxygene album release  - 1976 Incantations album Release - 1978 Hard to believe Mike would be influenced by a record that had been out at least a year by the time he had started writing Incantations. Jarre was using sequencing machines, Mike didn't have to - he had Pierre Moerlen! -------------- How can they NOT like my music! Back to top

Guru Meditation Group: Members Posts: 55 Joined: May 2003 Posted: Mar. 01 2007, 13:39 With this discusion going on and on, I decided to play Incantations again for the first time in ages. And then I suddenly realise what pushes this Oxygene-influence story aside: THIS COMPOSITION IS FAULTED! The beggining could have been much better, but the patterns are rhythmicaly misjudged! Oldifeld doesn't change the rhythm enough, patterns are too stagnant and that totaly spoils the great idea! Roughly said, if you would omitt a few notes inside of some of the patterns you would get much better music, that sounds exactly like trance-ecstatic incantation, much more flamboyant and full of angular change of direction (and the inca-feel would shine through much more). I am so sorry that this didn't come out that way! So much would like to hear it! That would also dictate quite different and better further developements, which are for me pretty direction-less as they are - I mean they soon start to sound marine-like and calm, closer to Mendelsohn's Hebrides atmosphere than to what is said on the beggining This is nothing like I am saying that Incant. are all wrong. But now after hearing it again I can say that this could be much more beautifull and great composition. What a shame But that finale is just beautifull Back to top

Guru Meditation Group: Members Posts: 55 Joined: May 2003 Posted: Mar. 01 2007, 14:08 @fragile: I just listened the MP3 and wow, now this is what you call influence :-). This could easily fit into Incantations, it would serve as developement much better than much of what Oldfield did. And this Steve Reich is good, I guess I could like his music Back to top

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