Tubular.net :: Mike Oldfield Forums Discussion, news, reviews, fan music, and more.
	Search :: Members :: Help :: Guidelines

Pages: (2) < [1] 2 > [ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

bee Group: Members Posts: 1227 Joined: Jan. 2004 Posted: Dec. 21 2006, 17:37 With the forthcoming autobigraphy I'm sure there will be answers to the many questions we may have in our minds about the origin & development of Mike's music. I wondered what was it about Tubular Bells that compelled Mike to get it into a format for many people to hear? I know of course that Richard Branson played a part and there was support for what he was doing, but it could easily have gone another way, & we may never have heard a note. I feel that without some kind of instinctive drive from the artist, a masterpiece is kind of unloved and therefore unsuccessful. So what did he know or feel about it and what made it special. Remember he was so young & I assume relatively inexperienced in that kind of thing. This makes it even more amazing. It makes me think also of a kind of chicken & egg situation, which came first, Virgin or Tubular Bells & if it could be argued that without Tubular Bells, Virgin would have been a very different organisation. Tubular Bells did fly really high for a very long time, leading the way. And the rest is history. Over simplified but I always think of Mike Oldfield whenever I read about or see RB on the television. Any ther views? bee -------------- ....second to the right and straight on till morning.... You heard me before Yet you hear me again Then I die Till I call me again Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Dec. 21 2006, 17:53 To put it quite simply, TB created Virgin. Virgin would've never become the huge company is it now (music, drinks, games, planes, trains etc.) if Mike hadn't given TB to Richard Branson. Of course Branson believed in it - if he didn't, nowadays Mike would be nobody, maybe he'd still be hawkin' around his demo... [or maybe not... I think someone on an 'alternative' label would've put it out anyway! ] Mike had been working on TB for sooooooooo many years (some snatches of it can be heard as far back as 1969 in his Sallyangie-era solo things, and later with Kevin Ayers' Whole World), so it was definitely something he wanted people to hear. It was very special music to him, it was the result of years of practice in assembling a long composition. And Branson helped him turn his musical dream into reality, and got stinkin' rich as a result of it. IMHO, in 1973, RB was just the right man at the right time, although things between he and Mike did not turn out so good after that. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Plus..Tubular Bells! Group: Members Posts: 14 Joined: Sep. 2006 Posted: Dec. 22 2006, 07:24 I have to think that Branson would have found some cash cow if TB had not come along - he has that sort of resourcefulness.  That much cash?  Perhaps not. Tubular Bells is not Mike's best work (see Ommadawn).  But it was really really good, outstandingly accessible, and outstandingly original, which is why it sold so well. I hope that Mike remains proud of Tubular Bells.  I still listen to a version of it every other day. And I have to remember that on Mike's 50th birthday (15/5/03), Branson was here in Adelaide, and was being interviewed on local radio where (perhaps thanks to my prompting) they asked Richard about Mike's birthday.  Richard said words to the effect of "I remember Mike's 15th birthday", and praised Tubular Bells.  In "Losing My Virginity", Richard gives a lot of space to Mike and Tubular Bells, so it's pretty clear that Richard acknowledges TB as the financial catalyst for Virgin. I hope that contributes to the discussion! Back to top

Guru Meditation Group: Members Posts: 55 Joined: May 2003 Posted: Feb. 20 2007, 09:06 Quote (Plus..Tubular Bells! @ Dec. 22 2006, 07:24) Tubular Bells is not Mike's best work (see Ommadawn). Come on now, don't sound like those biased classical criticists that proclaim medoicree but complex works for he best. As great as Ommadawn is, it doens't have a single part that matches the sheer originality of TB opening. I think that TB would succeed on this way or another, Oldfield must have known from the moment he wrote the opener that he has something very special in his hands. The rest of the album is just o.k. music, but the opener was groundbreaking But I also think that rest of Oldfield's music, as great is it is, is not that much in the spirit of TB... it's more pastoral/mystique/rock where TB had that very modern sting. TB is quite unique in Oldfield's work P.S. I'm amased that you tend to apreciate this album as a whole. Wake up people, it's all about the opener - the rest of the album is nothing special Back to top

ThisName Group: Members Posts: 307 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Feb. 20 2007, 09:33 hhhmm, I'm not sure I agree with much of that. Whilst TB does have the hook that everybody knows, I think its use in the commercial domain helped that, especially with the exorcist. Most people who hear that melody associate it with the film. Whilst it is quite novel, I have heard other artists write music that opens equally as impressively. Ommadawn is a far superior work in maturity and construction and whilst it may not have the immediate appeal of TB, it is certainly his best work IMO. I don't agree with your comments on the rest of TB being not that special compared to the opening, I think it has some gorgeous moments and most people don't even realize they exist because they think mike Oldfield's tubular bells is just those opening minutes! -------------- www.ryanyardmusic.com Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Feb. 20 2007, 10:28 Looking back at Bee's title for this thread - Mike's belief in Tubular Bells - makes me want to drag out an idea that I've expressed here before. I think 'Tubular bells' is a powerful personal symbol for Mike. I don't mean just a kind of identifying brand name; I think it's got really deep roots. The tubular bell is a symbol of something - I hardly know what - that lies deep in his psyche. Look at the way he goes back to it, time and again. That's not due to a lack of imagination, or a wish to repeat a formula. It's due to the fact that it haunts him and has done since the beginning. It nourishes him. When he goes up the mountainside at the end of TB3, what remains is the sound of tubular bells. When you fly through the long cavern in Maestro, there are tubular bells hanging in the air, and the main pieces of music you hear through the game are fragments from TB2003. It's a curiously composite symbol too, because it consists of a title, and a sound, and a visual symbol all rolled up together. The statement that Tati used to have in her signature, about Mike Oldfield being more than just Tubular Bells, is correct, but it's only part of the truth. In the deepest sense of the expression, I think Mike Oldfield is Tubular Bells. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Feb. 20 2007, 14:58 I think that applies particularly to the music. Seems to me that Mike used Tubular Bells as an expression of himself, of his raw personality, like a snapshot, or a self-portrait, or something. I think that, starting from Hergest Ridge, Mike started treating the composition process as a more "separate" thing, as if setting life and art as slightly separate things. There might have some naivety involved in the writing of Tubular Bells that turned it into a highly personal affair. I think, in that aspect, Mike is Tubular Bells and vice-versa. Of course, I wouldn't be ingenuous enough to say there isn't a sourer side to it. That is, after all, Tubular Bells is a commercial symbol as well. And you might be offended by it, but the quantity of "recyclings" of Tubular Bells in the 90's had their good share of commercial appeal. And I just can't be convinced that the whole "sequel" thing is a purely and absolutely artistic and/or personal affair. The Millennium Bell is the most blatant example. Say whatever you wish. Branson, yes, he was a man of vision. And if he ever had any belief on Tubular Bells (of course he had, but that's just a figure of speech), it's because he was bold enough to see its real potential. After all, Prog Rock was in its apex in 1973, but everything was too vocal and too serious. And it's true, if it wasn't for Tubular Bells, he'd probably have lifted his empire in some other way, but I think Tubular Bells falling on his hands might have been one of the biggest strikes of luck we've known. If it wasn't for his vision, though, he'd have probably let is skip. Wasn't he the genius who gave Faust their 15 minutes of fame by selling a full-blown LP for the price of a single? Of course he pretty much killed Faust on the process, but hey, a band can't have everything. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Feb. 20 2007, 17:07 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Feb. 20 2007, 19:58) Of course, I wouldn't be ingenuous enough to say there isn't a sourer side to it. That is, after all, Tubular Bells is a commercial symbol as well. And you might be offended by it, but the quantity of "recyclings" of Tubular Bells in the 90's had their good share of commercial appeal. And I just can't be convinced that the whole "sequel" thing is a purely and absolutely artistic and/or personal affair. The Millennium Bell is the most blatant example. Say whatever you wish. I don't see why it can't be both, Sir M. I wouldn't insist that the repeated revisiting is a purely artistic/personal affair. Artists make art because they're driven to do it, but also they want to sell it to live. Those two things have always gone side by side. The only thing I'd want to insist on is that despite any purely commercial intent there may be, there is also this deeper aspect to the Tubular bell symbol for him. Back to top

bee Group: Members Posts: 1227 Joined: Jan. 2004 Posted: Feb. 20 2007, 18:46 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Feb. 20 2007, 19:58) Seems to me that Mike used Tubular Bells as an expression of himself, of his raw personality, like a snapshot, or a self-portrait, or something. Interesting, and what you say about it being so personal I can fully believe. And that's what I really like about it. Tubular Bells will always only be identified with Mike. No one could ever do anything like that again because so much has changed. Alan's point about the bell image is a good one, it's certainly open to interpretation. Why was the image of a twisted bell used? As they stand, tubular bells have their own beauty - strong vertical lines & cylindrical shape. They could have been photographed in an abstract way & this would have worked as well maybe... For whatever reason, the image we know and love was chosen and lives on. Does anyone know more about the original idea? Mike, where are you, we'd really like to know!! Everything is there in Tubular Bells (the album), there are so many musical ideas, instruments, styles, structures and the bells are almost a kind of "seal" holding it all together. A final statement of what it's all about. The sound of a bell. It finishes and fades away so beautifully. As the bell is crossed or bent it is as if a knot has been tied to keep the idea/essence/source of secrets/don't know what else to call it safe and protected. Maybe I read too much into it. But what I like to think is that the tubular bell image is of the start, the very beginning of a spiral. An ancient symbol, very important to the Celts, & a lot to do with life. Three interlocking spirals, a triskele, relates to the sun, the afterlife & reincarnation. That bell shape always makes me think of a triskele. Spirals are often found in relation to the Mother Goddess, and also in relation to earth, water and sky. Life, death and rebirth. Three seems to be a significant number too ( no pun! & is it any coincidence that we have a sequence of three true Tubular Bells albums to listen too? I think Mike knows stuff either consciously or subconsciously -- could he be a vital link through time? A messenger of some sort. Perhaps that's what composers are. Also not forgetting the dna double helix thingy, a very important messenger, a spiral of information, the basic building blocks of life. And someone here on this site has the personal signature " life is a spiral, time is a curve..." there's more but I can't remember, sorry whoever you are, but that sentence has stuck in my mind. I really must sound as if I am away with the faeries, but none of us really know what it's all about, this life thing. It's scary sometimes. But I think knowing and feeling and understanding Tubular Bells is taking us all one step closer to whatever it is. Maybe the bell is that shape just simply because it looks better that way on an LP cover - filling the space above the sea nicely. But then why chose the sea shore? -------------- ....second to the right and straight on till morning.... You heard me before Yet you hear me again Then I die Till I call me again Back to top

moonchildhippy Group: Members Posts: 1807 Joined: Dec. 2004 Posted: Feb. 20 2007, 19:43 I guess for Mike and also Richard Branson it was a case of right place at the right time, without Tubular Bells I don't think Virgin would be the multinational company it is today.   Had MIke and RB not have met I think Tubular Bells would have been put out on a small independent label and have become a cult classic, rather than the biggest selling instrumental album of all time. I believe Mike did have the belief in his masterpiece, even if most record company execs didn't. I understand Mike hawked his demo tapes around virtually every record company, and so I understand was on the verge of considering moving to Russia , when he found RB.   Just think of the number of times   Mike has recycled TB in his work, TB 2, TB3, The Millenium Bell, remaking  TB in 2003, even though that doesn't move me the same as the 1973 original. Also parts of Amarok, to me Amarok is musically more like Tubular Bells than Ommadawn( I love TB and Ommadawn, but have never quite grasped Amarok). I guess for Mike his name has become synonomous with Tubular  Bells, which maybe for Mike he  has become a "victim"  of  the success of Tubular  Bells.   Then again Mike was a teenager when he first laid down the foundations of what was to become Tubular Bells. Here was a young man who would pour his teenage angst into playing his guitar,Mike did have some very adverse circumstances, what Mike felt he couldn't speak verbally he could more than make up for it with some beautiful guitar playing .  When I said about Mike becoming a "victim" , I mean this in the sense that generally the public only really know of Tubular Bells, apart from a few more enlightened ones, and dedicated fans. For me as a 70's kid I remember Tubular Bells was everywhere,  this must be about 1977/8. I don't really  remember seeing Ommadawn or Hergest Ridge, I do for some reason remember seeing Incantations, for me I guess it was easy for me to think of Mike as being the Tubular Bells guy"         . In conclusion I reckon that Mike had put so much of himself into Tubular Bells, such has been his subsequent return to it in later pieces ,yes I believe that Mike more often than not composes music from his heart, that is his emotions are conveyed in his music, and in turn the listener becomes more in touch with his or her own emotions. -------------- I'm going slightly mad, It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come. I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health "Part time hippy" I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!! Back to top

Mirage Group: Members Posts: 36 Joined: Sep. 2004 Posted: July 25 2007, 16:02 I remember reading somewhere that Mike never really cared what his albums were called. He liked the title Tubular bells, and would have named every single album he ever made, TBxxx. It didn't matter to him. But the bell has become an icon to him and to us. Personally I don't think he really got into the business end of things as Branson did, but them Branson was always about the money. And look at him now. He's done alright for himself, his way. And Mike has done alright for himself, his way. I too can help but think of Mike whenever I hear RB mentioned. I suppose the two will always be intertwined, like it or not. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Aug. 25 2007, 22:11 Mike's real belief on Tubular Bells (?): "It's not something you just dump something on. It's not a big truck. It's a series of tubes." (sorry; couldn't help it) -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Sep. 10 2007, 14:39 Quote (bee @ Feb. 20 2007, 23:46) Alan's point about the bell image is a good one, it's certainly open to interpretation. Why was the image of a twisted bell used? As they stand, tubular bells have their own beauty - strong vertical lines & cylindrical shape. They could have been photographed in an abstract way & this would have worked as well maybe... For whatever reason, the image we know and love was chosen and lives on. Does anyone know more about the original idea? Mike, where are you, we'd really like to know!! Hello Bee   I remember it being mentioned somewhere... (perhaps the book?) that he wanted the image to represent the sound of the bells. If i remember rightly, he spoke of having to really "whack" them to get the right sound, and he asked for a larger hammer to do it whilst at The Manor. If i remember rightly, the bells were on loan from a company, so he probably really shouldnt have done that   . Ahh well, you've got to live a little right?   He then goes on to talk about talking with the cover artist, and wanting it to be based on that bent and out-of-shape theme. Apparently, the artist went away, and the bent bell we see today was the result. Mike apparently liked it immediately and RB approved. Again, this is all from memory, so i may have collated / pieced this together from multiple sources, but as far as I know this is correct... although it's highly possible I could be wrong... I'm 22... and getting on a bit... my memory's failing...   -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

trcanberra Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Feb. 26 2008, 05:42 Interesting points from everyone.  From what I can see, TB is something of an obsession for Mike.  I remember reading somewhere he hates it at times, and other times feels the urge to fiddle with it, write variations etc. Most of his autobiography seems to be about the bells in one form or another.  I'm just glad he has been able to come up with such a great output of other music as well. Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Mar. 14 2008, 14:21 MO himself said not long ago that he thinks it still holds up today.  I think because the elements for it had been fermenting in his head for a few years prior to the recording of it.  He had the time to let it develop and evolve and refine itself before committing it to tape.  It wasn't some rush job that depended upon current trends for it's appeal.  And by that I don't mean the actual recording sessions-which we all know were a bit rushed.  I mean the actual composition. As for Branson... he's a hustler.  He knew a good thing when he saw it, and he knew he could capitalize on the hippie aspect of TB before that well ran dry.  He displayed the same kind of ethics when punk exploded.  He knew all good little punks would snap up anything that LOOKED like a punk record.  Being a smart mogul is no crime, but the artist who kick-started his empire got left in the dust. All this begs the question (slightly off-topic, sorry):  In 2001 Virgin did a nice set of remasters for XTC-chockfull of bonus tracks.  MO's remasters got nothing (except painful sleeve notes).  Why?  Can the answer be anything other than corporate spite?  I'd love to know-it pisses me off to no end! Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Mar. 14 2008, 23:15 Quote (Bassman @ Mar. 14 2008, 14:21) MO himself said not long ago that he thinks it still holds up today.  I think because the elements for it had been fermenting in his head for a few years prior to the recording of it.  He had the time to let it develop and evolve and refine itself before committing it to tape.  It wasn't some rush job that depended upon current trends for it's appeal.  And by that I don't mean the actual recording sessions-which we all know were a bit rushed.  I mean the actual composition. As for Branson... he's a hustler.  He knew a good thing when he saw it, and he knew he could capitalize on the hippie aspect of TB before that well ran dry.  He displayed the same kind of ethics when punk exploded.  He knew all good little punks would snap up anything that LOOKED like a punk record.  Being a smart mogul is no crime, but the artist who kick-started his empire got left in the dust. All this begs the question (slightly off-topic, sorry):  In 2001 Virgin did a nice set of remasters for XTC-chockfull of bonus tracks.  MO's remasters got nothing (except painful sleeve notes).  Why?  Can the answer be anything other than corporate spite?  I'd love to know-it pisses me off to no end! Well sorry to wander even further off topic here Bassman,but those XTC re-masters were a pretty piss poor job imo.All those bonus tracks were already there anyway from the cd issues in 1987.They just stuck them at the end of the disc rather than between the original side one/side two.Also the packaging for them was an absolute joke,as any fan of xtc will tell you.At least the original cd`s had lyric sheets you could actually read.You`d have to have the eyesight of Durer with a telescope to decipher the "faithfull artwork restoration" on some of those abominations.Even the actual discs themselves seemed to go for the typically louder/more compression angle,that everyone seems to favour these days. I too would like to have seen a lot more effort put into the re-mastering/re-issueing of Mike`s back catalogue.But I don`t think it had anything to do with spite or sour grapes between the two parties concerned.I just think that Virgin are a bunch of cheap corporate toerags.Looking for another quick/easy way to make a few quid out of a loyal but desperate fan base.Heaven forbid that they should actually spend some real time and effort on the bloody things.In the case of XTC, they eventually became so sick and pissed off with Virgin that they had to go on strike for seven years to get away from them.Imo Oldfield got off lightly by comparison.But then of course XTC didn`t make Richard Branson the man he is today. Maybe that`s another reason why Mike keeps finding himself returning to Tubular Bells.So that he may one day go back and create the perfect Tubular Bells into some other yet unbeknown dimension.A one in which where Branson himself never even existed....   Funk pop a roll beats up my soul Oozing like napalm from the speakers and grill Of your radio Into the mouths of babes And across the backs of its willing slaves Funk pop a roll consumes you whole Gulping in your opium so copiously from a disco Everything you eat is waste But swallowing is easy when it has no taste They can fix you rabbits up With your musical feed They can fix you rabbits up Big money selling you stuff that you really do not need Funk pop a roll for fish in shoals Music by the yard for the children they keep Like poseable dolls The young to them are mistakes Who only want bread but they're force-fed cake Funk pop a roll the only goal The music business is a hammer to keep You pegs in your holes But please don't listen to me I've already been poisoned by this industry Funk pop a roll beats up my soul Andy Partridge 1983 Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Mar. 15 2008, 11:17 Hey Dirk.  Yeah, your comments had me digging out my XTC discs, and holy crap-I had forgotten how bad the booklets were.  When I looked at "Drums And Wires" I actually laughed out loud!  Well, at least they got points for attempting to reproduce the inner sleeves in the first place, but then lost those points for the font size.  Anyway, at least they had the bonus tracks. Can't comment on the mastering because I have only the vinyls to compare them to.  I can't recall ever seeing Andy's opinions of Branson or Virgin.  Are there interviews somewhere? I keep fantasizing (along with everyone here) how cool it would be if TB1 was reissued with "MO's Single/Froggy Went...", and so on and so on with all the other albums.  I would gladly shell out the cash for a box set of CD's reproducing the original singles, like ABBA and Duran did-damn, that would be cool! MO believes in his work. WE believe in his work.  What more is it going to take? ("toerags".... LOL) P.S.  XTC-still amazing.  Has it already been 30 years?  Damn, I'm old. Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Mar. 15 2008, 14:19 Well oddly enough I just listened to a very long but hilarious online interview with Andy Partridge over on a website called Todd Rundgren Radio.They`ve actually just done a one with Dave Gregory the guitar player as well, both of which can be downloaded from the site.Also Partridge is very active on an XTC fan site over on my space.Where he can often be found chatting away about different xtc songs.They usualy do a different track on their every week.It`s always a very interesting and amusing read I have to say. He does`nt really have a good word to say about his dealings with Virgin,but then Partridge is fairly anti music buisness anyway.You know people quite rightly here talk about pressure being put on Mike to go more singles/song orientated during the 80`s.But believe it or not some Virgin exec guys at around the same time were puting intense pressure on XTC to make an album that sounded like ZZ Top?It`s quite hilarious really when you think about it no dis-respect to those bearded fellows.But it would surely be akin to some promotions bod asking Mike Oldfield to make an album in the style of Eminem or somebody.I guess these guys Oldfield and Partridge, were really up against it sometimes.And I don`t even want to start getting into the whole financial/rip off side of it or I`ll be here forever. I could`nt agree more with the extra tracks etc.There`s a hell of a lot of singles,b sides and c sides out there that I`m guessing your average fan would be more than willing to shell out for.Even if most people have probably already got either a vinyl or mp3 version.Virgin did actually put together a four disc box set of XTC stuff a few years back which kind of collated a lot of their extra stuff/demos and the like.Would be great to see some of Mike`s stuff put together in that way.Not sure how keen Mike would be on such a project taking place because it`s not really the kind of thing that would attract many new fans.It would certainly more than please a lot of the older ones though that`s for sure. Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Mar. 15 2008, 15:23 Amen to that, brother. Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Mar. 17 2008, 01:09 P.S.   Sir M, I loved your Ted Stevens reference.  I'm a devoted disciple of Jon Stewart! Back to top

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ] Pages: (2) < [1] 2 >

Forums | Links | Instruments | Discography | Tours | Articles | FAQ | Artwork | Wallpapers
Biography | Gallery | Videos | MIDI / Ringtones | Tabs | Lyrics | Books | Sitemap | Contact


Mike Oldfield Tubular.net