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Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 28 2010, 19:06 @ nightspore: well, back in Stockhausen's time, that wasn't called "sampling"... it was called "copying", "lack of originality" or, still worse, "plagiarism". I don't think that those definitions indicate that people were really appreciating it. Nowadays, sampling is considered adventurous because it's done through technology, and because people (generally) sample small excerpts of other people's songs, not substantial melodic material (as Stockhausen did) and build their own music over those excerpts. Of course, the more original the final song sounds, the better the artist who did the sampling is. Just to quote a recent example, Whithey Houston's "Million Dollar Bill" sampled "We're Getting Stronger" by Loleatta Holloway. Yet Whitney's song was a hit, and was also quite highly praised, and no-one said she was unoriginal. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Jan. 28 2010, 20:17 Quote (Ugo @ Jan. 28 2010, 19:06) @ nightspore: well, back in Stockhausen's time, that wasn't called "sampling"... it was called "copying", "lack of originality" or, still worse, "plagiarism". I don't think that those definitions indicate that people were really appreciating it. Nowadays, sampling is considered adventurous because it's done through technology, and because people (generally) sample small excerpts of other people's songs, not substantial melodic material (as Stockhausen did) and build their own music over those excerpts. Of course, the more original the final song sounds, the better the artist who did the sampling is. Just to quote a recent example, Whithey Houston's "Million Dollar Bill" sampled "We're Getting Stronger" by Loleatta Holloway. Yet Whitney's song was a hit, and was also quite highly praised, and no-one said she was unoriginal. Stockhausen used tapes, so I guess that counts as technology... It's ages since I listened to Hymnen, as it's not generally very pleasant to listen to, but I seem to remember that he didn't use substantial melodic fragments either - just snatches,processed and distorted in various ways. Certainly melody was conspicuous by its absence, at least on a casual listening! Re your example: Dario G's use of "Life in a Northern Town" would be another illustration. Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: Jan. 28 2010, 20:58 You know it all, don't you? -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1759 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: Jan. 29 2010, 03:23 Quote (nightspore @ Jan. 28 2010, 09:30) Quote (smillsoid @ Jan. 28 2010, 08:00) It's all on a 'continuum', with no such thing as quality, eh?  I see. Try asking a professor of music and he'll politely tell you that with the exception of a couple of songs by the Beatles "quality pop music" is an oxymoron. Melody, for example, was already considered passé in the early twentieth century. Even sampling, which is considered so modern and adventurous, was exhausted by Stockhausen back in the sixties. (His work Hymnen, for example, samples umpteen national anthems, much to the annoyance of several countries.) Life's too short. If I enjoy something, that's enough. Try not asking a professor. It works wonders! The academies never has anything construvtive to add to the arts. BTW I'm a huge of "Red Hot Chilipepper" + I like the girl. -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

olracUK Group: Members Posts: 1683 Joined: June 2003 Posted: Jan. 29 2010, 20:22 I'm currently suffering from that terminal medical condition known as "Man-Flu", and tanked up on various medication and a goodly dose of medicinal Whiskey. So forgive me if this post rambles... It seems to me that popular music is like a rainbow, each genre (or colour) merges into the next. So any self-respecting major multi-national music company is going to want  to sell every colour it can, Hence that weird Universal options list. From Ultra Violet to Infra Pink. Mike is obviously Octarine. "Music with Rocks In" for Pratchett fans. And like a colour wheel, music picks up hints/tints from all over the place. Colours opposite each other go together pleasingly, so it's possible to like musical genres that appear far apart. And colours bleed into each other, just as music does. You'd think "Pink" is just red and White, but add a tiny bit of black and the intensity increases. -------------- The answer is 42 - but what is the question? Back to top

ex member 419 Group: Members Posts: 1177 Joined: April 2008 Posted: Jan. 29 2010, 23:49 Hi Larstangmark, I reckon there is much that can be learned from modern popular music styles. They usually have their base in more traditional classical styles that have modified. Even Mike turned to the classics when learning to play guitar. Academics aren't all boring old farts with horn rimmed glasses that dismiss modernity as crass and vulgar. Go to your nearest Conservatorium of Music and ask to sit in on a concert or two. You will be pleasantly surprised. Without input from Academics in the Arts ( music, fine arts ) imagine the pigs breakfast of influences that would destroy classical styles of music we love so much. Imagine the Sex Pistols setting the standard, heaven forbid! Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Jan. 30 2010, 03:06 Quote (ex member 419 @ Jan. 29 2010, 23:49) Academics aren't all boring old farts with horn rimmed glasses that dismiss modernity as crass and vulgar. Actually, most musical academics would argue that it's pop and rock that are old fashioned, drawing on melodic styles and ideas that were worked out years ago. If you listen to a modern classical piece, it tends to sound like the noisy bits fromUmmagumma but without the sense of fun. Back to top

ex member 419 Group: Members Posts: 1177 Joined: April 2008 Posted: Jan. 30 2010, 04:17 Hi Nightspore that was my point. Pop runs out of fizz when there is no real theme that flows through the music, and yes the academics do argue that modern popular music is destined to fade unless there is a strong familiar base. Mike said once "everything we hear has been played before. When composing music you use notes, chords and theory that have already been invented" the truly successful pop songs that are covers such as "life in a northern town" are using a familiar theme, sampling, which has become an art form made easier with the technology today. Ministry of Sound is a good example of sampled and modified versions of original material. Back to top

Matt Group: Admins Posts: 1186 Joined: Nov. 2002 Posted: Feb. 03 2010, 09:29 It's been upgraded! Well sortof, mikeoldfield.com now redirects to sedoparking.com. Now shows the following: Makes a change from Britney I guess, I've always fancied learning to play Jingle Bells with Eye Shadow Makeup on whilst being kept warm by a nice roaring Tubular Furnace.... -------------- "I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels" Back to top

Guest Unregistered Posted: Feb. 03 2010, 10:55 ~ Message deleted at the request of the author ~ Back to top

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