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nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Aug. 30 2009, 21:04 Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 30 2009, 16:59) EDIT 2 (Oh my Gosh! ): The Ondes Martenot, as far as I know, sounds like a theremin. I'd rather see JMJ elegantly pulling the wire controller of an Ondes Martenot that clumslily waving his hands around a theremin's antenna - he'd produce similar, but far more tuneful sounds, if he did the former instead of the latter. His theremin playing is pretty horrible. It has a kind of "spooky" sound, in my opinion. In the Messiaen symphony, it sometimes sounds as though there's a ghost singing in the background. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Aug. 30 2009, 22:54 Quote (nightspore @ Aug. 30 2009, 04:38) OK, I've now listened to all of Equinoxe. I agree with Sir M that part 5 is definitely the best (track 8 is very similar, a variation on the piece). I was disappointed with the rest of the album, though, the music doesn't seem to have much feeling - rather like the soundtrack to a porn video (not that I watch them, of course; a friend described to me what they're like I know that even Ommadawn was used on a porno film, but Equinoxe seems way off the mark for being adequate for porn. The "feeling" is all over the album, since Jarre clearly had a vision (or a lot of visions) he wanted to bring into the music. All the sounds seem linked and coherent, and they play along nicely around the melodies -- not a single sound is wasted. I think he only loses to Vangelis in terms of bringing the human touch to machinery, but then again Vangelis controlled a dozen different keyboards at the same time BY HAND, where Jarre's songs are very reliant on sequencers and drum machines (correct me if I'm wrong), but still, the human warmth is clearly there. If you want to see what "no feeling" sounds like, Kraftwerk is the way to go -- though they did it on purpose and were awesome. P.S.: the ondes Martenot is used extensively by Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead, and its presence is felt very strongly on In Rainbows. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Aug. 31 2009, 07:08 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Aug. 30 2009, 22:54) All the sounds seem linked and coherent, and they play along nicely around the melodies -- not a single sound is wasted. I think he only loses to Vangelis in terms of bringing the [i] Hmm, not so sure about that... part 4 has little noises that sound like R2D2 on speed (or is it C3PO who can only make noises?), or, worse, a flatulent dalek. I really think my reaction to Jarre has been marred by the Oxygene single, which I loathe. Equinoxe part 5 has perhaps made me think there is good Jarre out there; but I still feel his melodies are sometimes too obvious. Ugo almost convinced me with his arguments about Mike's use of electronics vs Jarre's (Ugo argued that Mike's music is dominated by non-electronic instruments and thus MO is painting with a less restricted pallette) - but then I started thinking of the purely electronic passages of Crises. which never sound simplistic or obvious. In fact, many of them are very clever - I'm thinking of the final minutes where the main theme is so compressed that for a while you don't even realise it's there. I think it just comes down to the fact that MO is a better musician than Jarre. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Aug. 31 2009, 07:46 @ Nightspore: part 4 of what? Of Oxygène, I guess, as part 4 of Equinoxe is where the beat starts... where the album starts being really, really good IMHO. Apart from this, I think, again, that the different instrumentation is the key to the differences between MO and JMJ. Mike is a guitarist, and he's also very well-known as a multi-instrumentalist. Jarre is a keyboardist/programmer and, I think, nothing else. I think that a musician's composing skills also depend, somehow, on the instrument(s) he or she plays. P.S.: I'm not sure about Episodes I, II and III of Star Wars (as I've really enjoyed only the first one and didn't like the other two), but in Episodes IV, V and VI R2-D2 is the droid who makes just noises, and C-3P0 is the very talkative one. [By the way, R2-D2 is called C1-P8 in Italy - which sounds something like Chee-oono-pee-ottow. I guess the Italian dubbers/translators didn't think that Artoo-Detoo sounded good in Italian (maybe because Artoo is similar to Artù, which is King Arthur ) and replaced it... ] LATER EDIT: Just for curiosity's sake, I compared the instruments lists on the Crises and Oxygène booklets. Crises' electronics are mostly Oberheim synths, with a Fairlight CMI and a Prophet; Oxygène's are an ARP, an AKS (a VCS-3 with a keyboard, same one as on Pink Floyd's "On the Run"), a RMI (which I have no clue about) and a Korg drum machine. IIRC, in the early Eighties, Oberheim took what ARP and EMS (makers of the AKS) had done and improved on it. And, always if my memory serves me well, the Fairlight CMI was the first-ever sampler. That's what I meant, in my earlier post, by "technology advancements". Also, interestingly, a Farfisa organ is used on both albums, but while I can tell very clearly where the organ is in Oxygène, I just can't distinguish it in Crises, and that, I think, is a plus. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4770 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Aug. 31 2009, 08:26 Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 31 2009, 07:46) @ Nightspore: part 4 of what? Of Oxygéne, I guess, as part 4 of Equinoxe is where the beat starts... where the album starts being really, really good IMHO. Apart from this, I think, again, that the different instrumentation is the key to the differences between MO and JMJ. Mike is a guitarist, and he's also very well-known as a multi-instrumentalist. Jarre is a keyboardist/programmer and, I think, nothing else. I think that a musician's composing skills also depend, somehow, on the instrument(s) he or she plays. No, Ugo - part 4 of Equinoxe. It's full of electronic burps and farts. I repeat my point about the purely electronic parts of Crises: it is there that MO shows his superiority over Jarre, in my opinion, even if MO does tend usually to mix non-electronic instruments with the electronic ones. Back to top

HRFanUSA Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: May 2009 Posted: Aug. 31 2009, 08:33 Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 31 2009, 07:46) @ Nightspore: part 4 of what? Of Oxygéne, I guess, as part 4 of Equinoxe is where the beat starts... where the album starts being really, really good IMHO. I agree Nightspore (and thanks to all of you for adding your comments) For Jarre, composing Equinoxe was not unlike MO's trying to top TB with Hergest Ridge (which most seem to agree didn't happen) Yet when Equinoxe was released, I rushed to buy it, and wasn't disappointed. Part 4 mesmerized me then (1977) and still does today. If the "beat" feels great, I urge you listen to the AERO version - it'll knock your socks off, especially on a hefty stereo system! I enjoy Jarre's simplicity, but IMHO and more importantly, he seems to have fun with his music. Some of his albums aren't the greatest compared to Oxygene/Equinoxe, but his body of work, as a whole, is quite substantial, and has no doubt influenced generations of "electronic" musicians since. I enjoy the "wall of sound" commentary here. Although stereo was quite nice at the time, when Oxygene was released, Jarre took full advantage of it, with sounds moving from left to right, etc. Also at the time, Tangerine Dream released "Rubycon" which did the same, but also incorporated sounds moving from front to back, etc. I couldn't help but think how clever that was! Back in the late 70's, Bob Carver introduced his Sonic Hologram Generator - an audio device that would allow regular stereo speakers to create a greatly expanded sound field. Hearing Oxygene with this device blew me away! Sounds seemed to be coming from six or eight feet from the left and right of the speakers. I realize for some enthusiasts this kind of thing is "not their cup of tea" but for me, well, it made listening to music that much more exciting, and electronic music seemed a perfect fit (and still does) Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Aug. 31 2009, 08:48 @ HRfan [BTW, what's your name? If you don't mind, I'd like to call you by your first name... ]: To me HR isn't superior to TB just like Equinoxe isn't superior to Oxygène - in fact, I think that it is inferior, because IMHO it does not work very well as an album (as a work), while Oxygène certainly does. that said, I must admit I've always liked HR (both versions of it) slightly more than TB because of HR's vaguely 'classical' atmosphere, which I just don't feel in TB. @ Nightspore: burps and farts on Equinoxe part 4?? OK, there's some weird stuff here and there, but there's much more of on the rest of the album - it's just typical of JMJ's early style. To me, the noises on part 4 not only don't disturb the flow of the piece, but they're very enjoyable. And to my ears some of them don't sound like R2-D2 on speed - they sound like a Vocoder. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

HRFanUSA Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: May 2009 Posted: Aug. 31 2009, 10:00 [quote=Ugo,Aug. 31 2009, 08:48]@ HRfan [BTW, what's your name? If you don't mind, I'd like to call you by your first name... ]: To me HR isn't superior to TB just like Equinoxe isn't superior to Oxygène - in fact, I think that it is inferior, because IMHO it does not work very well as an album (as a work), while Oxygène certainly does. that said, I must admit I've always liked HR (both versions of it) slightly more than TB because of HR's vaguely 'classical' atmosphere, which I just don't feel in TB. Hi Ugo My name is Harry. I live in Corryton, Tennessee, USA. Like you, I've always liked HR (hence my name here, HRfan) and it was the MO album that cemented my continuing love for MO's music. The iconic TB is no doubt a revolutionary masterpiece but HR, to me, has more heart and soul. (see my other posts in the HR part of this forum). I was more than pleased with Equinoxe when it was released even though it couldn't possibly top Oxygene. Still, I felt it was a reasonably respectable follow-up, as was Magnetic Fields. To be honest, back then there wasn't all the hi-tech electronic music that's available today, so Equinoxe (along with Kosmos from Tomita, Timewind from Klaus Shulze, Radioactivity from Kraftwerk, and Stratosfear from Tangerine Dream) were all I knew about, and I cherished them, as I still do today. They all shaped my impressions of music and I'm extremely grateful. These musicians not only create music but they were all important in pushing the "technology" envelope forward as well. Some people think Kraftwerk's music is cold and mechanical, yet maybe they're missing the point, IMHO. Regardless, each to his own - and the fact we have so much music out there to match or compliment our own unique personalities, tastes, etc, is what make music so powerful... Harry Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Aug. 31 2009, 18:24 @ Harry: thanks for replying. Yes, sure that people in this forum have many different opinions about music... otherwise the discussion forum simply wouldn't exist, would it? About the other names you mentioned, I'm a little bit familiar with Klaus Schulze, but I don't really like him. I don't know Tangerine Dream and Isao Tomita at all, although of course I know their names. About Kraftwerk, at the risk of going off topic (but we already are, aren't we? ), I think that being mechanical and soulless is, in a way, their point - as Sir M. said above here, they are (were?) tremendously good at it. Even their latest (last?) live show doesn't look at all like four musicians playing - it looks like four businessmen sending e-mails at best, and like four robots at worst. [Heck, they never say "Thank you" or at least "Danke schön" during their whole show, and Ralf Hütter seems to be making a great effort in saying "Good night" at the very end!!] They do turn into four robots on the eponymous song. But the music is excellent. And that's what matters... at least to me. P.S... always off-topic: Harry, what is your favourite version of HR - the original mix or the Boxed remix? Maybe you already answered somewhere else, but I don't remember what you answered, and I'm just too lazy to search for it. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

HRFanUSA Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: May 2009 Posted: Aug. 31 2009, 19:26 Hi again, Ugo If you're not familiar with Tangerine Dream, well, you owe it to yourself to investigate them - NOW! Above all, TD is my ultimate favorite EM group, and I've stuck with them throughout their nearly 40 year career. I have nearly 300 TD CDs at this point, and I could write a book on how I feel about their music so it's difficult to express what I feel in a few words here... My recommendations would be Rubycon, Force Majeure, Tangram & Encore, as a starting point. My favorite version of HR is the original, mostly because that's what I heard first. The remix is excellent however I never thought the trumpets and snare drums on part one were redundant, nor do I particulary care for the pronounced vocals on part two. MO created a masterpiece the first time around, IMHO, though I've had no choice but to accept and love the remix on the CD release. I do agree the "Thunderstorm" section of part two is crisper than the original mix, and am happy to have both of them. I disagree with others in the forum that feel the Martin B. remaster of the original on CD is bad as I find it most listenable. It certainly sounds crisp and clear on my audio system, without the pops and ticks and congestion inherent with the vinyl. I think he did an incredible job of remastering it. As far as Kraftwerk - all I can say is I enjoy their sense of humor, and considering the 1982 release of "Computer World" way before most of us had home computers, lol, they were predicting the future. More importantly, at least for me, was how their music sounded on my various stereo systems through the years. The wonderful sine waves on "Radio Land" and "Antenna" (from RadioActivity) sent shivers down my back years ago, because it truly took advantage of the full audio spectrum. Yes, they do look like buisness men in the Minimum / Maximum concert DVD, but that's fine with me. I try to keep in mind they were inspired by the industrial "cold" world of post-Nazi Germany, and I think they adequately expressed that in their music. Yet, their music is fun, and is fun to listen to, IMHO, not to mention how their rhythms and electronic beats have impacted disco/rave/and house music through the years. I'm a bit sad they've broken up... Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 04:39 Ok Oxygene.I love it.It's on my ipod and gets played fairly frequently although i prefer Equinoxe.As with a lot of my favourites it's been part of my life since early childhood thanks to my dad (he had such a cool record collection)so it's another one that i am very familiar with.I like the way that it begins very sedately allowing you to relax into it before the huge bass sound comes in.The only slightly grating bit is on side two with some vicious panning effects that don't seem to sit well with headphone listening but soon settle down to a really soaring melody.Minor gripe though cos as a whole it's a reaaly good one for drifting off for the duration. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Fine_old_Tom Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 06:42 It was the mid 70's and the teenage me was into Oxygene before discovering Mike Oldfield. JMJ was my first venture into my own world of musical discovery. So for that, I do love Oxygene, Equinoxe and Magnetic Fields. But then came Incantations and a new love   -------------- Sad Sing Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 09:35 Funny that you mention Incantations cos i got into Magnetic Fields (thanks again Dad) at about the same time as i got Incantations (around 1982)at the tender age of 7.Was i a wierd kid! I see the difference between Oxygene and Equinoxe as the differnce between TB and Ommadawn in that,as good as Oxygene/TB was it was as if he was building up to Equinoxe/Ommadawn.Ok in MO's case there was HR in the interim butyou get the idea.Oxygene seems a little disjointed as is TB and then the real deal was Ommadawn (HR is in a class of it's own IMO as it is so different to what went before and after). -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

HRFanUSA Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: May 2009 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 10:15 Quote (The Caveman @ Sep. 01 2009, 09:35) Funny that you mention Incantations cos i got into Magnetic Fields (thanks again Dad) at about the same time as i got Incantations (around 1982)at the tender age of 7.Was i a wierd kid! Gosh Caveman, you're making me feel really old, lol! Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 10:29 Age is irrelevant as long as you've done plenty in your life.I was old before my time listening to this stuff! -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

HRFanUSA Group: Members Posts: 128 Joined: May 2009 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 10:37 Quote (The Caveman @ Sep. 01 2009, 10:29) Age is irrelevant as long as you've done plenty in your life.I was old before my time listening to this stuff! agreed... I got Magnetic Fields in 1982 at the tender age of 21, and felt certain I was onto something great (having TB/HR/OM/IC/Oxygene/Equinoxe/Rubycon/Stratosfear/Encore/Autobahn/Man Machine/Trans-Europe Express, etc. under my belt) I won't say I didn't enjoy the pop radio tunes at the time, but the albums I mentioned above were my pride and joy, and still are today! They have all served me well in my lifetime... Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 11:13 I'd have to say that the radio stuff i remember from that time was absolute pop shite!I used to watch TOTP religiously and my sister would sit with her little cassette recorder in front of the TV and shout at us if we dared talk during it but i felt,even then,that it was all superficial in comparison to the stuff i liked.Mainly all Oldfield (FMO was my first album i bought myself and was new at the time)and all the other Oldfield stuff i had got my dad to tape for me (the local record library was invaluable)and the first 3 Jarre albums. -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1980 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 11:23 A weird kid? No way! I went straight from mother goose songs to Acid Rock: Hendrix, Cream, Doors. At 7yo. Jim -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 11:42 Lol.Now why doesn't that surprise me Jim?Took me till i was about 11 to get onto all that stuff.But when i did........changed everything! -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1980 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Sep. 01 2009, 12:11 Then came '73. FM radio. Then I discovered it all. YES, Steely Dan, MO, ELO, Deep Purple, Grand Funk, I could do this all day...... -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

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