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Topic: Meaning of words?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
CarstenKuss Offline




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Posted: Feb. 24 2001, 15:02

Being not a native speaker, I wonder what the meaning of the phrase "five miles out" is.

Five miles away from the airport? Or off course? Or out on sea? - Doesn't sound very dangerous to me. Five miles is not much...

Five miles high? - But aren't altitudes measured in feet, not miles?

-Carsten-

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-Carsten-
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Archangel Foster Offline




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Posted: Feb. 24 2001, 20:53

Considering the music was written by "Mile" Oldfield (see 'error' topic), maybe there were five Miles out there on that flight? No, that's silly...
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Man In Rain Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2001, 03:14

'x miles out' is an aviation term and means that an aircraft is at x miles distance from the runway, flying on the runway's centerline.

Note that 'miles' means nautical miles (this is used in aviation), 1 nm = 1.8 km so 5 nm = 9 km (which is not much).
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CarstenKuss Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2001, 14:39

Thanks. Two very good explanations wink

Other phrases I don't quite understand:
- "you've got 30 degrees"
- "stalling out"
- "squalk"
- "automatic 18" (OK the plane is a Beech 18, but what does automatic mean?)

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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2001, 15:21

Hi, Carsten.

- 30 degrees: dangerously bent on a side (referred to the plane's inclination).

- stalling out: going into a stall situation [like in the chess game - you're blocked smile].

- squalk, or rather, squawk: to signal an emergency situation, to make people aware that you're in danger (more aviation jargon).

- Automatic 18 means nothing. smile Lost in Static means something: the plane can't communicate because of the high amount of static (= interference). Automatic is just a rhyme-word with Static.

Archangel: according to the Elements booklet, there were four people on that plane, non five... smile biggrin

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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Feb. 25 2001, 16:16

Stalling is when the plane goes so slowly that it starts to fall. I believe that having too steep an angle can also cause the plane to stall - hence "You've got 30 degrees and you're stalling out".
I can't say I've ever seen chess players come across these problems, but then I don't play it myself.

automatic could, I suppose, refer to one of the various automatic things found on a plane - auto pilot for example...Just something Mike threw in for good luck.
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Man In Rain Offline




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Posted: Feb. 26 2001, 13:38

AAAAARGH!


OK, here are some explanations:

30 degrees - this could refer to the roll, pitch or flaps angle, I think it refers to the pitch

stall - A sudden lost of lift caused by a disruption of the normal flow of air over the upper surface of the wing. This occurs when the wing's angle of attack (angle between the wing and the oncoming air) reaches a critical value (critical angle of attack). Stall speed is the speed at which a plane enters in a stall under certain conditions (which is determined by pitch, thrust, bank, weight, flaps etc.)

beacon - A station that transmits one-way signals for the purpose of navigation

warning sound - This is the stall warning

push through that band of rain - Commercial airplanes mustn't fly through thunderstorm clouds

five miles out - 5 nautical miles from the airport (in aviation, nautical miles are used)

heading - The direction in which the aircraft is pointed, referenced to the magnetic north. This doesn't always correspond to the path of the aircraft over the ground (because of winds)

number 1, anticipating - At an airport aircrafts must fly in certain patterns assigned by the ATC (air traffic controller) to avoid collisions and they will land in a certain order, usually in the order they arrived in the airspace. Number 1 is the next aircraft that will land. ATC can give priority an aircraft in emergency situation.

mayday - The international call for help (from the French m'aidez). This is the voice transmission equivalent to SOS.

GMOVJ - This is the plane's registration number, the first letter (G) tells that the plane is from the UK. In aviation there are certain words for the letters of the alphabet (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo...) so GMOVJ is read Golf Mike Oscar Victor Juliet.

IMC - Instrument Meteorological Conditions, weather conditions that require IFR (instrument flying rules) in a controlled airspace, this generally means ceiling is less than FL10 (300 m) and visibility is less than 3 nm.

CU NIMB - Cumulonimbus clouds; dense, vertical cloud formations that produce rain or thunderstorm and heavy turbulence. Cumulus means 'heap' and nimbus means 'rain cloud' in Latin. Like all cumuliform clouds, CU NIMB forms in unstable air and they can extend well in the stratosphere.

icing - A very dangerous phenomena when ice is collecting on the upper surface of the wings and tail, modifying their shape and so increasing stall speed

squawk - To squawk means to set a number on the transponder. The transponder is an airborne transmitter-receiver that receives signals from air traffic control (ATC) and replies with a four-number identification code (squawk) set by the pilot, the numbers ranging from 1 to 7. This code is used to identify an aircraft on the ATC's radar display. Under IFR (instrument flying rules) the ATC assigns transponder codes to aircrafts. There are special squawk codes: 1200 for VFR, 7500 for hijacking, 7600 for lost radio communication and 7700 for emergency. Squawk emergency would meen set the transponder to 7700.

lost in static - this means the radio signal is breaking up

automatic - When radio communication is lost, the pilot has to use the ADF (Automatic Direction Finder) which receives signals from non-directional beacons (NDBs), this is 'automatic'

Beech 18 - one of the most adaptable and versatile twin-engined aircraft ever built. The type first flew in 1937 and orders for military versions were placed in 1941 with a total of 5024 being delivered during the war. Its two Pratt&Whitney radial engines deliver 450 hp. Take-off weight is 3400 kg, ceiling is FL270 (8200 m), range is 1200 nm, max. speed 220 kts.
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CarstenKuss Offline




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Posted: Feb. 26 2001, 19:33

Wow, perfect!

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Belthazar Offline




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Posted: Feb. 28 2001, 21:23

Wow.... that's IS pretty impressive. I knew what some of the words meant (such as "30 degrees and you're stalling out"), but this clears up pretty much the entire song for me...

But I do have one more question... is this some kind of a stunt plane? 'Cause he says "Don't take that dive again"... or did he mean the plane was diving to get out of the way of the storm, and it ran into difficulties?

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Belthazar
That's Bravo Echo Lima Tango Hotel Alpha Zulu Alpha Romeo

Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana
-- Groucho Marx

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Man In Rain Offline




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Posted: Mar. 04 2001, 03:37

Beech 18 isn't a stunt plane (or aerobatic plane to use the aviation term), it's a civilian transport aircraft with 9 seats.

I have a possible explanation for the lines 'don't take that dive again / push through that band of rain'. The plane had thunderstorm (cu nimb) clouds in front of her which were possibly too high and wide to fly above or near them. One choice would be to descend to a lower altitude ('take that dive'), but this would be dangerous because of the mountains or hills. Another choice was to fly straight through the clouds which is also dangerous as lighting might strike the plane (Beech 18 is an old plane which isn't equipped with lighting arrestors so lighting might cause damage). Modern airliners have lighting arrestors so if a lighting strikes them, they won't be damaged. However they mustn't fly through thunderstorm clouds - static electricity might disturb their radios and avionics (aviation electronics); and if a lighting strikes the plane there will be a nice big black spot on it and the company will be mad.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Mar. 04 2001, 13:10

Incidentally, where did this idea of a Beech 18 come from? By all accounts, Mike was piloting a Piper Navajo during the thunderstorm incident. I've also seen pictures of Mike with something like a single engined Cessna.

Looking at it though, the Beech certainly looks like the one on the FMO cover...and all the Pipers I can see don't look like it particularly...

Somewhere along the lines we (or maybe it's just me) seem to have found at least two planes to relate to this incident/album wink
Either the picture is just of a plane that the artist thought looked pretty, Mike was flying a Beech and not a Piper or...something else...

I'm not sure this matters anyway wink
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Belthazar Offline




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Posted: Mar. 04 2001, 19:07

Man In Rain:
Makes sense....

Korgscrew:
Didn't we decide it was a Beech 18 because of the line "Lost in static, 18"?

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Belthazar
That's Bravo Echo Lima Tango Hotel Alpha Zulu Alpha Romeo

Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana
-- Groucho Marx

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cp Offline




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Posted: Mar. 05 2001, 05:53

Balthazar and Korgscrew - it is a Beech 18.

Quote from http://www.ommadawn.dk/mou/fmo/radio.html -

Quote
After exhausting the mailing list Amaroks resources, we turned to the man himself in the list interview for a definition of "Lost in
static 18, Automatic 18":

"If you look at the cover of Five Miles Out, the plane is a Beech 18. If your radio is breaking up, the control tower would tell
you "Lost in static" and then give the call-sign, so it was "Lost in static, 18". It was just one of the lyrics I scribbled down one
evening in the pub! When I was writing that song I just scribbled down anything I could think of to do with aeroplanes, and then
assembled them into lyrics."


So, according to Mr Oldfield himself, there's no doubt about it being a Beech 18.

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Man In Rain Offline




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Posted: Mar. 05 2001, 13:52

This taildragger is quite unique in shape, the only aircraft it fairly resembles is the Volpar Turbo 18, which in fact is a new, pressurized version of the Beech. But no doubt that the plane on the cover is a Beech 18. To be more precise it's a Beech D-18S. smile

It's an old plane (manufactured between 1937-1967) so I don't think it was flown by Mike, even 20 years ago. I have also asked this question myself: which is the connection between Mike and the D-18S. Let's say it was his favourite plane. smile

About the Piper Navajo: it's a 6-8 seat corporate transport and commuter turboprop airliner manufactured between 1964 and 1983.
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Belthazar Offline




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Posted: Mar. 05 2001, 16:51

Man in Rain:
You seem to know quite a bit about this sort of thing.... what exactly do you do IRL?

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Belthazar
That's Bravo Echo Lima Tango Hotel Alpha Zulu Alpha Romeo

Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana
-- Groucho Marx

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Man In Rain Offline




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Posted: Mar. 06 2001, 08:39

IRL I'm a university student (I learn Physics), but I'm also an aviation enthusiast (like Mike). Currently I fly planes only in Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000 (I've flown more than 500 hours and I'm a member of a virtual airline) but I plan to obtain a private pilot license later. smile
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Belthazar Offline




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Posted: Mar. 06 2001, 16:45

All right then...

But there's still one thing that confuses me.... the first verse says "24 miles from the beacon", and the chorus says "Five Miles Out". I'm assuming that's 5 miles out from the runway, so why is the beacon 19 miles from the airport?

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Belthazar
That's Bravo Echo Lima Tango Hotel Alpha Zulu Alpha Romeo

Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana
-- Groucho Marx

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Man In Rain Offline




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Posted: Mar. 09 2001, 15:40

Approaches can be of several types: visual, NDB (non-directional beacon), VOR (very high frequency omnidirectional range) and ILS (instrument landing system).

I guess 'beacon' means here NDB (and not some visual indicator like 'love is a beacon, a guiding light' smile). A NDB is a radio beacon which transmits nondirectional signals in the low or medium frequency band (190-535 kHz). As they are nondirectional, there are more NDBs at some distance of the runway (5-25 nm) on its centerline. So they aren't on the runway or at the airport. Today NDBs are used only for non-precision approaches by small planes.

But you're right the song can be confusing. For example: five miles from the airport means the aircraft will land after 3-4 minutes. If it's flying on the glideslope, lets say descending with 400 fpm (feet per minute) it is at FL12 (450 m) altitude AGL (above ground level). But the song is also going about flying in thunderstorm clouds over mountains. So it seems the lyrics aren't about the same situation, only about the same flight.
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Belthazar Offline




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Posted: Mar. 09 2001, 21:17

Hehehe.... yeah, the song starts and ends with the plane 5 miles out.... you'd think he'd move closer during the song, wouldn't you?

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Belthazar
That's Bravo Echo Lima Tango Hotel Alpha Zulu Alpha Romeo

Time flies like an arrow.
Fruit flies like a banana
-- Groucho Marx

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cp Offline




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Posted: Mar. 09 2001, 23:12

Yes, but "three-and-a-half miles out" doesn't quite have the same ring to it. wink
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