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Topic: Just a piece of rubbish!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
SoimSandheaver Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 04:25

I've never been so shocked by such a subject matter on the TubularBoard as with this one. I can't understand why anybody wouldn't like this amazing album. From the uplifting opening of the Genesis reading and that arresting opening of "Let There Be Light", I think it is just a lovely piece of music which creates such a peaceful atmosphere.

It reminded me strongly of Incantations and the fact that everyone can start again. It manages to establish a whole new world of everything that is tranquil, and for that it is a brilliant piece of work.

There are also some pretty powerful darker moments in TSODE such as the explosive Supernova, the wonderfully atmospheric The Chamber and the creepy yet familiar Tubular World. That's just my opinion anyway. Now, all I want to do is find the Arthur C. Clarke novel the Album was inspired by.


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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 09:06

Quote (Alan D @ Oct. 09 2006, 02:18)
Quote (larstangmark @ Oct. 08 2006, 23:29)
It's a newage easy listening album, and that was the last thing I expected from Mike

Well, as long as I've been listening to Mike Oldfield (i.e since about 1979) there have been substantial numbers of people who've described his music as 'musak'; 'musical wallpaper'; and, later, 'new age'. None of them was right. They were all the kind of comments made by people who hadn't found a way into the music, and therefore assumed that the only way to 'use' it was to play it in the background and effectively ignore it.

TSODE is no exception. It isn't 'easy listening', nor is it 'new age'. It's Mike Oldfield exploring (at that time, for him) a new kind of musical expression. He really is exploring, and the music is very rich. I don't use it as background music - when I play it, I invariably listen with concentration and full engagement, and I find it rewards that degree of focus. It's full of drama and incident - and these are not normally qualities possessed either by new age or by easy-listening music.

But obviously it won't work for everyone; it's not to everyone's taste. I can readily understand why some might dislike it. But that doesn't mean it can be dismissed as 'easy listening'. To say that is, I think, to make the same mistake as many people have done with regard to the whole of Mike's oeuvre.

Alan, even though we don't agree on the qualities of TSODE, I hope you agree that it was a departure and I think it's only understandable that the album alienated a portion of Mike's fans at the time. Don't you?

Anyway, I feel I have to expand a bit more;

Even when Mike did chart pop (as in Earth Moving), there were unusual twists in the arrangements and always a chord change or two that takes you by surprise. This is what I lack in TSODE. Sure, some of the sonic textures are impressive, but that's not enough. It's the same kind of "deep" but ultimately shallow soundscapes that might appeal to fans of Jarre, Vangelis, Kitaro and propably Yanni. Mike's hinted at it before, but here is the full transformation.

TSODE is the first Mike Oldfield record that does not contain one bit of rock music (Killing Fields excepted of course), and as I see it, one of Mike's qualities is that he's a rock guitarist in denial.

I don't know how to explain it better. I bought Earth Moving and Islands upon their respective release dates and was somewhat disappointed, but there were glimpses of the old Mike which made the purchase worthwhile.

With TSODE I felt totally indifferent to the music. And I have trouble getting into the music ("...giving it a chance") when it contained so many things I truly dislike; glitzy synth pads, overuse of reverb on guitars, badly mixed drum loops, ethnic chants (which was outright populist at the time), song titles that sound like quotes from tourist brochures, sampled dialogue from space travels etc.

As much as a loathe the term, TSODE has an air of political correctness about it that I find slightly nauseating. It was as if it was conceived specially for the opening of the olympics or something.

The good side of this is that things could only get better - and I think TBIII (for example) was a bit of a return to form, which I propably wouldn't have thought if it was released right after TBII.


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 10:09

Quote (larstangmark @ Oct. 09 2006, 14:06)
Alan, even though we don't agree on the qualities of TSODE, I hope you agree that it was a departure and I think it's only understandable that the album alienated a portion of Mike's fans at the time. Don't you?

Yes, we definitely agree on that, Lars. But this is just one of many departures he's made, some more successful than others. For example, I found myself alienated by much of his 80s pop music, and also by Amarok. That doesn't mean I think he shouldn't have done those things; it's just a natural consequence that if an artist changes what he's doing, he'll almost certainly alienate some of his previous devotees.

Quote
TSODE is the first Mike Oldfield record that does not contain one bit of rock music (Killing Fields excepted of course), and as I see it, one of Mike's qualities is that he's a rock guitarist in denial.

I'm not happy about putting that label 'rock guitarist' on him. To expand, to explore to find out what else you can do, and how else you can express yourself - I don't think that's 'denial'.

Quote
With TSODE I felt totally indifferent to the music. And I have trouble getting into the music ("...giving it a chance") when it contained so many things I truly dislike; glitzy synth pads, overuse of reverb on guitars, badly mixed drum loops, ethnic chants (which was outright populist at the time), song titles that sound like quotes from tourist brochures, sampled dialogue from space travels etc.

I entirely understand how you might respond like that.

Quote
As much as a loathe the term, TSODE has an air of political correctness about it that I find slightly nauseating. It was as if it was conceived specially for the opening of the olympics or something.

Now that is a very interesting comment! In the Clarke novel, towards the end, a special piece of music is commissioned from an artist to celebrate the historical events recounted in the book (I forget the details - it's years since I read the book). I've often wondered how consciously Mike attempted to produce, in TSODE, that piece of fictional music. In other words, I wonder if he tried to play the role of the musician in the novel by writing a kind of epic such as the commissioned work in the book might have been. Personally, I find that idea very appealing, and it adds to the imaginative complexity of the relation between the music and the novel. (I'm not clear what you mean about the political correctness though.)
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olracUK Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 11:04

Quote (Alan D @ Oct. 09 2006, 15:09)
Now that is a very interesting comment! In the Clarke novel, towards the end, a special piece of music is commissioned from an artist to celebrate the historical events recounted in the book (I forget the details - it's years since I read the book). I've often wondered how consciously Mike attempted to produce, in TSODE, that piece of fictional music. In other words, I wonder if he tried to play the role of the musician in the novel by writing a kind of epic such as the commissioned work in the book might have been. Personally, I find that idea very appealing, and it adds to the imaginative complexity of the relation between the music and the novel.

Funny thing is, I always had the impression/thought that the whole point of the album was Mike making the commissioned piece from the book.

And even if I ever thought of the album as new/age or chilled electronica, it will always be a classic of the genre for me. Mike trying a different style and proving he can compose and compare at the highest level. (which is why L&S was a bit of a disappointment, in that he didn't compare well with others of that genre)


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 11:50

The Songs Of Distant Earth is a "new age" album only in the very, very surface, I believe. It sounds like it, but it isn't. It's obvious enough that the album wasn't devised as an "easy listening" album, even though the amount of tension the album creates is unusually small for Mike's standards. There's a lot into it. Yes, I came to realise that, and my opinion of the album is more or less settled that I just can't find "my way into it", and I'm not bothered enough to try. Funny that the names of Jarre and Vangelis are brought up, because albums like Equinoxe and Albedo 0.39 bring me everything Mike's effort could ever hope to do, in a much less overarching and a much more natural manner. Mike's error in The Songs Of Distant Earth was pushing too hard in a genre he was still a complete n00b (i.e. newbie, :) ). The experience he had in the style of music he devised entirely on his own was kind of bogged down by the attitude of the guy who's impressed with Windows XP because of how smooth the menus and windows look like (if you get what I mean with this idiotic obscure analogy, ;) ).

At least I can fully understand why one can like this record. It is, in all respects, a Mike Oldfield album. It doesn't go without its merit - Mike was honestly trying to swim headfirst into a new genre, instead of drowning into it.

Wow. How mature I am. :p


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Iksion Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 13:00

Tsode is very good album. I like some of its snogs like i nthe beggining and The chamber. I dont see anything bed in thet album

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The Big BellEnd Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 13:15

Love TSODE, it is a really nice piece of work, Crystal Clear is simply outstanding, the whole album work's teriffically.
Anyway I;m glad this thread was started so I can say how much I hold this album in the highest of regard's.


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 15:04

Quote (olracUK @ Oct. 09 2006, 16:04)
Funny thing is, I always had the impression/thought that the whole point of the album was Mike making the commissioned piece from the book.

Have you ever seen that link explicitly stated anywhere Andy? I don't think I have. I knew the music for at least a couple of years before I read the novel, and during that time I just assumed that Mike was making a kind of soundtrack - not a good word, but the best I can think of - for the book. It was only when I got to the relevant part of the book that this particular issue started to raise itself - I mean, the parallel between the fictional musical composition and Mike's actual composition.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 15:10

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Oct. 09 2006, 16:50)
Mike's error in The Songs Of Distant Earth was pushing too hard in a genre he was still a complete n00b

I think it only seems to be an error if you don't enjoy the music much. I hadn't thought of it before you mentioned this, but I'd say that Mike's newbie-ness probably kept him clear from the kind of slickness that I tend to associate with the other practioners, and to that extent his lack of experience could be seen as an asset.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 15:51

True. Indeed, there can be a positive side to it - I just didn't feel like expanding on that. :)

It's true, though, that "error" was a dire word. It wasn't an "error" in Mike's catalogue, or for his fans, but what there is in that album is unused potential. I believe The Songs Of Distant Earth could have caused a bigger dent in the whole electronic genre if Mike spent more time researching, experimenting and developing his skills. For example, it took Radiohead at least three albums to make a transition from alternative guitar pop (Pablo Honey) to warped electronic rock (Kid A), and it wasn't a smooth one at all. The Songs Of Distant Earth was a one-off experiment, and not a bad one. But as it is, it failed to become relevant or influential. It doesn't show many possibilities - just makes use of those that were already there.

But yes, that has a positive side. Mike didn't turn "pure electronica" in the album, which is good for many fans. And also, his "newcomerness" to the genre meant that he was less inclined to use old formulas and clichés that connoisseurs of the genre already knew by heart. It has unusual, refreshing elements in it. It's not a wasted effort at all. I really don't like the record, but I wouldn't call it a piece of rubbish. It has its merits.


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EeToN Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 16:04

Quote (Alan D @ Oct. 09 2006, 16:09)
(I forget the details - it's years since I read the book).

I hope it doesn't count as a spoiler but here it is. ;)

Quote
The farewell concert was to be remembered, and replayed, for generations to come. There was no video to distract the senses -only music and the briefest of narration. The heritage of two thousand years was ransacked to recall the past and to give hope for the future. It was not only a Requiem but also a Berceuse.
It still seemed a miracle that after their art had reached technological perfection, composers of music could find anything new to say. For two thousand years, electronics had given them complete command over every sound audible to the human ear, and it might have been thought that all the possibilities of the medium had been long exhausted.
There had, indeed, been about a century of beepings and twitterings and electro-eructations before composers had mastered their now infinite powers and had once again successfully married technology and art. No one had ever surpassed Beethoven or Bach; but some had approached them.


After that the description of the music titled "Lamentation for Atlantis" follows.


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Iksion Offline




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Posted: Oct. 09 2006, 16:08

Mustapha you keep amazing me! You realy like to write :) I will finish this... It wasnet Mikes day when he started TSODE but its still good...not too good and not too bed...Its just fine to listen. At the end you will not die if its bed ;)

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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 10 2006, 04:06

Quote (EeToN @ Oct. 09 2006, 21:04)
I hope it doesn't count as a spoiler but here it is.

Quote
The farewell concert was to be remembered, and replayed, for generations to come .... etc. etc.

Oh that's great, Tibor! Many thanks for putting that up for us.

What does it say about the composer himself? I seem to remember he's a young guy - but again my memory is lost in fog.
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Ray Offline




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Posted: Oct. 10 2006, 14:26

Ok, I listened to it again,

Intro - along the theme of the book - so fine aceptable
Let there be light - Brilliant - nice get up on a sunny saturday morning  (at this point i would have spotted ti as a MO album for absolute definite!!;) sound - make you want to pick up your guitar and play it.
Supernova -theme again - and it sounds like one too!!!
Magellan (who was an explorer) brilliant - sounds like outer space too.  The piano is great. but realy only a link between Magellan and Oceana,
Oceana - more great guitar ( if this is not MO then i'm the best guitar player in scotland!;) great linking to "Only Time will Tell"
Only Time will tell",  well I guess onlky time will tell if this is good or not.... but not as good as the previous track.
Payer for the Earth - sound red indian - any body translate????  May be a hddien message in there.  
Lament for atlantis - nice piano again, floating in space feeling..  weeeeeeeeeeee......then fantastic guitar - once more make you want to pick up your own and play... brilliant ...it's to short (the guitar bit that is).
THe Chamber...great link to Hibenakerium
Hibernaculum.  More outer space feel, something Peter Gabriel could be proud of, I guess it lacks some brilliant vocals that mr Gabriel would use but this is MO, although I would let you off if you didnt get this as a MO track first off if listened to in isolation.
Tubular world - a fun rework along a tubbells theme.
Crystal Clear.  Nice and long, very MO ish synths until the guitar comes in at 0:39 then it's a dead cert.  Almost would fit on Platinum.  finished with a nice guitar bit (as often is the case with MO - turning up the distorion and the volume towards the end)
Bit if a re-run of Crystal Clear but with a very clea bit og guitart work just past half way though.
Exit red indians - hello African continent -New Beginings indeed (so what year was this - was this topical at the time perhaps) - very subtle messages here.  Again I don't know what they are saying but someone must be able to translate

In all - A very recognisable MO album with about 97 or 98% certainty on the first listen for anyone without the cloth ear's syndrome ( :p)

Try making something like this yourself, It's tremendously harder than you would think.

Cheers  Ray


:cool:


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Iksion Offline




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Posted: Oct. 10 2006, 16:09

Evrybody says:"anyone how know how to play can play like Mike Oldfield even bether.." i say thet isnt mether how someone plays. You can play like a God and yet youer song mey sound like shi*...A little people can get such ides like Mike...Idea is what make world spins...or go around :)

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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 10 2006, 16:38

Well, it seems there is no reference in the book to a 'young composer' (unless I haven't found it yet), but here is a little more of the text about this concert (thanks to EeTon) - and reading this again, now, together with the piece that EeTon quoted, I see why I believed Mike had this passage in mind, when he composed and produced the album:

Quote
To the legions of listeners, the concert was a reminder of things they had never known - things that belonged to Earth alone. The slow beat of mighty bells, climbing like invisible smoke from old cathedral spires; the chant of patient boatmen, in tongues now lost forever, rowing home against the tide in the last light of day; the songs of armies marching into battles that Time had robbed of all their pain and evil; the merged murmur of ten million voices as man's greatest cities woke to meet the dawn; the cold dance of the aurora over endless seas of ice; the roar of mighty engines climbing upward on the highway to the stars. All these the listeners heard in the music that came out of the night - the songs of distant Earth, carried across the light-years ...
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olracUK Offline




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Posted: Oct. 10 2006, 18:43

So, can you imagine Mike reading those passages (as quoted by Alan and EeToN) and not thinking - "I must write this -it's so me?"  :D .

His love for sci-fi, for the "bigger picture"....to pay homage to a great novel and to emulate Clarke's words.

And, as a Newbie to that electronica genre at the time, I still felt that Mike had exceled himself with this album. Compared to the other stuff around at the time; Mike's guitar, his crescondo's (those trademark Mike Moments) made this a album stand out.

As for my thought that Mike tried to make the actual music described in the book - I hadn't seen or read anything to state that, it just seemed logical to me that Mike had.


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 11 2006, 03:33

Quote (olracUK @ Oct. 10 2006, 23:43)
So, can you imagine Mike reading those passages (as quoted by Alan and EeToN) and not thinking - "I must write this -it's so me?"

Yes, you're dead right Andy. It is so him!

I also agree with your comment about the album being a stand-out. If I think back to '94, with the New Age genre pretty well established and still growing, there was nothing like this - nothing to match the power of it, and the virtuosity of guitar playing set against that backcloth of synthetic sound.

If you wandered around the streets of Glastonbury in '94, the characteristic sounds were things like Medwyn Goodall's 'Medicine Woman' - and very pleasant they were, in a 'sunny afternoon in Glastonbury' kind of way. But there was no hint in any of that New Age material of any of the drama, sweeping narrative character, and piercing intensity that Mike injected into TSODE. The only qualities it has in common with the New Age music of that time are really quite superficial ones.
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olracUK Offline




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Posted: Oct. 11 2006, 09:35

Just browsed some old Mike sites, and found this press release from the US label Reprise>

follow this link.


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Piltdownboy on horseback 22 Offline




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Posted: Oct. 11 2006, 09:43

Fun to see that old site yes!! hehehe... I got the cdrom, but was never able to watch it...  :/

Anyway, shouldn't you be working??!!!!!!!!  ;)

There's someone waiting with a broken phone! Go help him!!  :laugh:  :laugh:


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