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warlock Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Sep. 29 2008, 13:26 I just can't stand vocals in Part II, the way that woman sings just makes me sick. It's like 7 minutes of constant, high pitched dog whining. And that unbearable way she pronounces "water", God... If it was like 1-2 minutes i would get used to it over time, but it's MUCH MUCH too long. -------------- cheers from Poland. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1980 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Sep. 29 2008, 14:52 I dunno, I guess you had to be there at the time. In 1978 when I bought the album, I loved the Sally part so much it could have gone 10 minutes longer. But time has no mercy for the growing young soul. It leaves us with memories while it makes us grow old(Jim Messina). Hence I do get burned out on that part more quickly now. But the entirety of part 2, no matter how tiresome, is a very clever piece of music. -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: Sep. 29 2008, 17:54 I'm confused.  Jim, were you referring to "Hiawatha" in Part Two?  "Sally"? I'm pretty rusty on my Longfellow (insert smutty joke here), but I seem to recall that the original poem went on even longer than what MO ended up using for his adaptation. And as for the song going on too long, well... I guess there's just no substitute for a good, old-fashioned attention span.   Steeleye Span, that is!     Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Sep. 29 2008, 18:44 I guess that what makes that part annoying (or maybe boring? I don't know whether I'm using the right term...) is the fact that the underlying music doesn't change. It's one chord held all the way through the poem and a very simple marimba part repeated throughout. The melody that the voice sings is exactly the same one that's used at the end of Part 4, but maybe it sounds less boring then because the accompaniment does change, using (IIRC) three chords and not just one. However, I personally don't find any of those two parts boring or annoying or whatever. I find them interesting for their lyrics. I guess that Mike particularily cared about the lyrical content of the poems he was using (Longfellow's Song of Hiawatha and Ben Jonson's Ode to Cynthia), so he didn't care that much about the musical content of those parts and simply limited himself to repeating the same tune over and over. After all, he likes repetition. Or at least he did then. @ Bassman: your Longfellow implicit joke made me laugh, congrats for it. Of course the poem went on longer, Mike only used a small section (called, IIRC, "Hiawatha's Departure") of an extremely long epic. I think somewhere here on tubular.net there's an analisys by Korgscrew of the Incantations lyrics [sorry, I'm too lazy to find it & link it here right now! ], which contains a full explanation of why that poem was used, and of how Mike used it. @ Warlock: I'm not English, but I guess that the particular pronunciation of "water" as "wa-tcher" used in the poem annoys you because it's very, very English. However, I could be totally wrong about this. @ Jim (Scatterplot): that part is sung by Maddy Prior; Sally (Oldfield) has nothing to do with it, as she sings elsewhere on the album. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Sep. 29 2008, 18:59 Continuing from the above: Korgscrew's lyrical analisys of Incantations is here. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

warlock Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Sep. 29 2008, 21:44 Quote @ Warlock: I'm not English, but I guess that the particular pronunciation of "water" as "wa-tcher" used in the poem annoys you because it's very, very English. However, I could be totally wrong about this. She just sings like she's had her nose squeezed (and it's not the matter of accent, i love english accent ). That girl just has extremly irritating tone of voice (for me ofc) i can't put up with for ~7:00 (i didn't measure it ) minutes. It always gets on my nerves. The repetition is WAY too long. Or as you said - it would be pretty alright if there were any changes in background instruments adding more variety to the music -------------- cheers from Poland. Back to top

Tubularman Group: Awaiting Authorisation Posts: 2304 Joined: June 2004 Posted: Sep. 29 2008, 21:52 Quote (warlock @ Sep. 29 2008, 19:26) I just can't stand vocals in Part II, the way that woman sings just makes me sick. It's like 7 minutes of constant, high pitched dog whining. And that unbearable way she pronounces "water", God... If it was like 1-2 minutes i would get used to it over time, but it's MUCH MUCH too long. maybe this is something for you.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8BRO-NCBNk it is mix of this song without the vocals. -------------- Mike Oldfield M i x e s https://soundcloud.com/tubularman Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1980 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Sep. 29 2008, 23:18 Hmm.....I always thought that was Sally Oldfield. Well, life goes on....... -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 04:11 Quote (warlock @ Sep. 29 2008, 13:26) I just can't stand vocals in Part II, the way that woman sings just makes me sick. It's like 7 minutes of constant, high pitched dog whining. And that unbearable way she pronounces "water", God... If it was like 1-2 minutes i would get used to it over time, but it's MUCH MUCH too long. Incantations has the unique status among Mike's albums as one that I simply cannot stand. And the part you mention is one I dislike most. Longfellow is a poet who was rapturously regarded in the nineteenth century, but later scholarship, focusing particularly on his metrical skill (or lack of it), has resulted in the curious situation that you will not find a Longfellow poem in any anthology of important poets of the past. Mike's setting of the words adds insult to injury: the idea of interpreting a poem is so that the instruments and the words talk to each other, reinforce each other, with colour and variety. Sadly, Mike's interpretation provides mere repetition. He might just as well have set the telephone directory. On the bright side, after Incantations we had all those terrific albums like Tubular Bells 2 and Amarok. Back to top

Scatterplot Group: Members Posts: 1980 Joined: Dec. 2007 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 04:31 Well, I'll always defend Incantations with my life. You 'n me soldier, you 'n me...... -------------- We raise our voices in the night Crying to heaven And will our voices be heard Or will they break Like the wind Back to top

Dirk Star Group: Members Posts: 1331 Joined: Sep. 2007 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 06:19 I agree that maybe Maddy`s voice is`nt for everybody and as the first Mike Oldfield album I ever owned it took me a long time to get used to it myself.I`m pretty sure I used to think it was Sally Oldfield as well in the early days.And then it did`nt actualy click until I started getting into Steeleye Span a little time later.Personaly I absolutely adore her voice it kind of cuts through the air somehow.Or maybe that is`nt quite right you know it kind of floats on a slipstream or something and then keeps re-channeling itself onto different wavelengths so it feels as if it`s coming at you from more than one place.God I really wish I could describe what it truly is about her she`s just amazing I think. Effects Of Incantations(from wkipedia)..  To be enchanted is to be under the influence of an enchantment, usually thought to be caused by charms or spells. The Latin incantare, which means 'to utter an incantation', or cast a magic spell, forms the basis of the word "enchant", with deep linguistic roots going back to the Indo-European kan- prefix. So it can be said that an enchanter or enchantress casts magic spells, or utters incantations, similar to what are called Mantra in Sanskrit. I`m going to have to go back and read Korgscrew`s anaylsis on this again.But for me that above paragraph best sums up what that Hiawatha section is all about.You know I always think that the whole entire point of it is that it`s meant to be a kind of mantra if you like.I don`t think you can deny that it`s repetitive I quite agree but sometimes when I`m really tuned into that thing..Well it just feels like I`m not coming back sometimes I guess.And consequently the begining of Side Three has been known to scare the living crap out of me at times...DA DA DA DA..DA DA..Whoah whoah  just wait a minute there brother.Bring back the bloomin` vinyl that`s what I say..a guy`s gotta` have time to recover. Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 06:49 To me, the Hiawatha part fits the album because the entire album is about repetition. There's no essential difference it and the final sections of part 1, or any of the following parts. The only difference is the presence of vocals, and I interpret the presence of lyrics as merely superficial, and I always assumed the choice of poem was merely to assert the North American aboriginal undertones of some parts. I don't think you're really supposed to follow the lyrics, word by word. What could have been cool is if he had Liz Frazer going around at that time to vocalise her unintelligible meanderings in those fantastic tones only she can make. Wow, 7 minutes straight of Liz Frazer? Now we're speakin'. If we invent time travel one day, we could as well send Björk back to that time and place. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 07:27 Maddy Prior is quite possibly my favourite singer, but I agree she isn't put to great use here. I far prefer the finale of part four, the 'Ode to Cynthia'. Maddy's singing isn't ruined here by excess repetition, plus we have Mike's amazing guitar solos. This final four minutes or so of Incantations is truely one of my most beloved pieces of music ever. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 08:27 Multiple reply here... @ Jim/Scatterplot: so I would be the soldier there? Even if I didn't exactly get the reference (Band of Brothers, maybe?), I like that role. @ nightspore: what I don't like about Incantations is that I can't play the CD in one go (unlike Amarok or any of the TBs) because it nags me a lot. If I play the single parts, that's fine... more than fine. @ tubularman: very nice clip, congrats. You stimulated me to put the whole of your Ultimate Bell album back again into my WMP's multimedia catalogue... @ Sir M.: sorry to disagree with you, but to me the lyrics are actually very interesting, no matter what was Mike's purpose in using the poem(s). Also, very good points there about Liz Fraser and Björk. I'm not very much into Cocteau Twins because I don't like their style [although I have the Victorialand album, and I love it], but I agree about Liz's voice being fantastic. Björk would be maybe too harsh for a record like Incantations... @ Warlock: sorry for misunderstanding you, of course not being able to stand a particular voice is entirely different from not liking an accent. It's not a problem of mine, though - there's not a single female voice in the whole music panorama that I actually can't stand. When I don't like a piece of music with vocals, what I don't like is the whole thing, not the vocals. @ Dirk Star: you've got a spot-on comment there, about vinyl. It reminds me of something Ray Manzarek said about Doors (vinyl) albums being Side A and Side B; he said: "When a side ended, you had to get up and flip the record over, so you couldn't get too high". This is also one point that whoever did the remaster/remix for the 30th anniversary edition of Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon completely missed, about the start of "Money". -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

hairy old hippy Group: Members Posts: 304 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 09:13 Well I for one absoloutely love the repetitive nature of this piece of music. It's meditative man! It's so tranquil and melodic. There are plenty of other sections in Incantations that have an incredible amount of movement and variation so, taken in the context of the whole, the repititious singing section makes perfect sense. Simply genius and one of my favourite pieces of music of all time. But hey, that's me, not everyone's gonna get it. Back to top

warlock Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 09:19 It's fine for me if you find her voice tranquilizing   Mate i've got nothing against monotonous music, but if something gets on your nerves and repeats itself like 50 times all you can think is "the torture never stops". -------------- cheers from Poland. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 09:24 Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Sep. 30 2008, 06:49) To me, the Hiawatha part fits the album because the entire album is about repetition. There's no essential difference it and the final sections of part 1, or any of the following parts. The only difference is the presence of vocals, and I interpret the presence of lyrics as merely superficial, You're probably right, Sir M - but a more modern, abstract poet - like Ania Walcwicz, say - would have emphasized much more clearly that repetition was the desired effect and that meaning was unimportant. (He certainly learnt his lesson in all those later tremendously effective chants with meaningless words, such as in "Celt" and "Taurus 2".) I can't help thinking that it was no coincidence that halfway through this album Mike decided that exegesis was needed. How right he was! Back to top

warlock Group: Members Posts: 41 Joined: Sep. 2008 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 09:29 If someone locked me in a room for a day and kept this track repeated for 24 hours i'd go nuts   -------------- cheers from Poland. Back to top

hairy old hippy Group: Members Posts: 304 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 09:50 Quote (warlock @ Sep. 30 2008, 09:29) If someone locked me in a room for a day and kept this track repeated for 24 hours i'd go nuts  :D I think I would come out as an enlightened spiritual leader of some sort! Back to top

hairy old hippy Group: Members Posts: 304 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Sep. 30 2008, 10:18 Hey, I'm listening to it right now. I'm in the library at university and supposed to be reading but I'm sooooooooooooooo bloody bored of it so Mike and Maddy are providing me with some relief! -------------- Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres. Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums! www.andrewtaylor.bandcamp.com Back to top

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