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Topic: Interpretation of an Amarok section, Just what is the Caveman doing?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Drealm Offline




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Posted: Sep. 01 2010, 08:52

Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 29 2010, 19:11)
As some of you in here have learned by now, I do know Amarok by heart. There is not a single fragment of it that I cannot place into its proper context. Yet, after all of my repeated listenings of that mighty work [I think I've played at least 500-600 times, if not more!] I still cannot figure out what the meaning of some sections is supposed to be... of course, if there is a meaning! :D As the whole piece is supported by a story, many passages of which are closely related to the music, I guess Mike O. had in mind some sort of significance for every single bit of music included in Amarok. Yet there are some which still sound mysterious to me. For example, what is happening during the Hoover/Scot section, starting from 41:21? Is the bash-bash-bash-bash-bash-bash-bash at 42:08 justified by anything, or does it mean anything?

Another section which I have never been really able to understand, from a musical and developmental point of view, is towards the end of Mandolin Reprise 1, 2, 3. What is the Caveman (in his first appearance here in Amarok, long before Africa 1) supposed to be doing from 37:47 to 37:55? A fascinating reply, which someone (Korgscrew?) gave to me a long time ago on the IRC #mike_oldfield channel, was more or less as follows: "the machine which produces the music has broken down, and the Caveman is fixing it. At 38:39, you can hear that he succeeded." Well, this explanation may sound good. But, according to the story, the music is not produced by a machine. It is produced by a giant antropomorphic statue. So, is the Caveman actually repairing some sort of mechanism inside the statue, which allows it (he?) to produce music? What do you think?

Replies and comments are welcome and much appreciated. :)

I like your post and have something to answer.

Amarok is a very imaginative album and that's why I like it so much. So with all my listens, I had the time to imagine a lot of things with all the parts. But you make me realize that I never considered the album to be an exact story all the way long. I always imagined the parts "alone", without considering that it is part of a big story; or maybe it was because I could never really know the entire story.

But for the parts you bring in your post, I imagined specific things that may not be part of the story you talk about, but still I will share them with you so it maybe help you with understanding the story!

For the 41:04 to 42:21 section (including the beginning and the bashing):

41:04 to 41:21 : Someone is walking, totally carefree and happy, but you feel something is going on that he and we don't know.

41:21 to 41:35 : now we know death is roaming around, approaching.

41:35 to 41:53 :again, you see the "someone" walk carefreely but we now know what's going to happen to him.

41:53 to 42:22 :death is very near, it approach and bash, bash, bash..., kill the "someone". And you see it go away, in the darkess.

For me, the bashing represent the way death kill the guy (instead of a gun or something like that). And can also mean that the hard bashing is a way to help eject the spirit out of the body. Because after this part, beginning at 42:23, for me it's the light appearing after he died (replacing the dark that death brought), and calling his spirit out of his body. The little sound at 42:28 - 42:29, the kind of "gnon gnon gnon" represent his out of body phase, and once standing, the light lift him up... and the music continues...

So that's it for this part.

Next, the part from 37:47 to 38:31 :

Before this part there was a "frog" part (15:00 to 15:55), standing alone in his pond.

So this part is the second "frog" part, but now the pond is very active with a lot of frogs; the beginning you mention (37:47 to 37:55) is the same frog as seen in the first "frog" sequence (I never saw it as a caveman) kind of "presenting" himself again. So he is under great stress, trying to find ideas (for who know what), and near the end of the sequence, we can hear the frog removing a sheet form a typewriter and crumple it (38:24), like if he did not found any good idea!

And what you said about 38:39, yes, it can represent the frog succeeding in finally finding an idea after an intense desperate rush (38:32 to 38:39)! It's fun, because I did not had anything specific for this part, so you helped me find one!

So I hope you enjoyed all I said! Of course, it's my own interpretations.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Sep. 01 2010, 09:53

Quote (wiga @ Sep. 01 2010, 07:34)
 There's like a second order irony at work - a matter of not taking quite so seriously the inevitable seriousness with which they go about their business. As in life, this approach gets the best results.

Yes, I think you can see this most clearly in TB2, where all that emotionally-wrenching music ends with "Moonshine" - a piece of fluff if ever there was one!
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Incantations Offline




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Posted: Sep. 02 2010, 01:54

...or in TB, with "Sailors Hornpipe"

A Bigger piece of fluff if there ever was one. :D



As You can imagine I may be a slight fan of the original album, and a slight, how you say, 'hater' of Tubular Bells II.

It sounds like a new age cover of Tubular Bells!

The only songs that I believe are worth buying are 'The Bell' (quite different, just an overall 'feel' that could summarise the whole of TB2) and 'Moonshine' (a nice piece, adequate replacement for Sailor's Hornpipe...

But Sailor's Hornpipe is better ;) )

What were we talking about?

Oh yeah Amarok.

Hmm... I never really am much a person for analysing music, let alone instrumental music if I may add. I had never seen the story that came with it because somebody made the glorious decision to take it out of the booklet of the 2000 remaster.

And the booklet says amarok is 54 minutes!

Wait what were we talking about again?

Oh yeah, The story behhind Amarok.

Err... I will just conclude with the simple idea that Amarok is the music emitted from the stature.


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Hmm...
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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Sep. 02 2010, 02:33

Incantations please ask your doctor to change your medication  :laugh:  :D
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wiga Offline




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Posted: Sep. 02 2010, 03:37

Quote (nightspore @ Sep. 01 2010, 09:53)
Quote (wiga @ Sep. 01 2010, 07:34)
 There's like a second order irony at work - a matter of not taking quite so seriously the inevitable seriousness with which they go about their business. As in life, this approach gets the best results.

Yes, I think you can see this most clearly in TB2, where all that emotionally-wrenching music ends with "Moonshine" - a piece of fluff if ever there was one!

I'm not sure I made myself that clear with what I was trying to say.

I'm talking about a 'non-serious' attitudinal climate that Mike has got going here whilst tackling the serious business of Amarok. This is why I compare him to Columbo, who's attitude is similarly non-serious, and bumbling even, but acutely aware. Non-serious, open and spontaneous I would say is the ideal attitude to have whilst in creative mode, creating something seriously good. Amarok is the best example of this attitude in action.

I always imagine Mike was working very much in the moment and hadn't pre-meditated any particular 'meaning' before he started.  I think he would have ended up getting in the way of himself if he'd restricted himself like that. His imagination, the melodies, the instruments, and the story all appear to have evolved from moment to moment, layer by layer.


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Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
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Incantations Offline




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Posted: Sep. 04 2010, 01:30

YAH

WHAT WIGA SAID

(Caps lock for intensive purposes)


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Hmm...
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wiga Offline




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Posted: Sep. 04 2010, 04:48

Thanks Incantations - you're my favourite. :cool:

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Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
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Zander Offline




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Posted: Oct. 10 2010, 21:11

Um, hi.

To me Amarok has very little to do with the story in the booklet, which is entertaining enough but doesn't fit. What it is--insofar as it's anything other than just pure music--is a journey from a bad place to a good place, combined with a grand clearout of the mental storerooms. Throughout the journey, there are things that emerge from the storerooms, or impinge from the outside world, and try to get in the way, and the bashing (like the telephone, or the muttered "I'm busy", or even Maggie) is either one of those things, or else a response to one of those things.

Anyway, that's just my two cents' worth.
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HR lover Offline




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Posted: Dec. 25 2010, 08:21

I believe the statue is the music Mike makes. Mike makes the sounds. I think Amarok is a very positive piece of music. Nowadays not a lot of people can hear passionate emotional music and really hear it's true meaning. I think a lot of beautiful things are the most fragile. You can easily dismiss them or destroy them. It takes someone who has a pure heart not to dismiss the music. Only those who don't dismiss it can hear it IMO. I think the Margaret Thatcher bit represents the coming of new positive music. Not the end. I will wait for it. Maybe in 50 years time    :)

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Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
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Hastengas Offline




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Posted: Dec. 28 2010, 10:59

Deep man.....

The album is very good......as for the story it tells....hmmm, I'll take your word for it people.....far too deep for me.
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wiga Offline




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Posted: Dec. 28 2010, 13:24

Quote (Hastengas @ Dec. 28 2010, 15:59)
Deep man.....

Yes, maybe so, but fear not Hastengas - it is a message of glad tidings and great joy!

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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Dec. 28 2010, 16:46

All around us, it was as if the universe were holding its breath . . . waiting.

All of life can be broken down into moments of transition or moments of revelation. This had the feeling of both.

The war we fight is not against powers and principalities – it is against chaos and despair. Greater than the death of flesh is the death of hope, the death of dreams. Against this peril we can never surrender.

The future is all around us, waiting in moments of transition, to be born in moments of revelation.

No one knows the shape of that future, or where it will take us. We know only that it is always born in pain.
:cool:
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Dec. 28 2010, 19:46

Much more of that, Milamber, and "Sunset" will be your theme tune too!  :laugh:
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wiga Offline




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Posted: Dec. 29 2010, 10:32

Quote (milamber @ Dec. 28 2010, 21:46)
All of life can be broken down into moments of transition or moments of revelation. This had the feeling of both.

In a similar way, beginnings and endings are more closely related than we realize.

Nuisances in life are like the tide. They increase. They decrease. When they go away, they never stay away. When they return they don't remain. So, the secret to success probably is to build floating structures, and as a tide of trouble is going out, a tide of new excitement is coming in...


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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Dec. 30 2010, 04:26

Quote (nightspore @ Dec. 29 2010, 09:46)
Much more of that, Milamber, and "Sunset" will be your theme tune too!  :laugh:

Yes Sensei :D
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Dec. 30 2010, 06:11

Quote (milamber @ Dec. 30 2010, 04:26)
Quote (nightspore @ Dec. 29 2010, 09:46)
Much more of that, Milamber, and "Sunset" will be your theme tune too!  :laugh:

Yes Sensei :D

Ah, you heard about my black belt... :)
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Milamber Offline




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Posted: Dec. 30 2010, 06:32

Quote (nightspore @ Dec. 30 2010, 20:11)
Quote (milamber @ Dec. 30 2010, 04:26)
Quote (nightspore @ Dec. 29 2010, 09:46)
Much more of that, Milamber, and "Sunset" will be your theme tune too!  :laugh:

Yes Sensei :D

Ah, you heard about my black belt... :)

I remember watching you fall into line at the Taekwondo graduation and saw the narrow stare you gave Mimi as you saw her there among the ranks of the waiting green belts ;)
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wiga Offline




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Posted: Dec. 30 2010, 06:56

Quote (milamber @ Dec. 30 2010, 11:32)
I remember watching you fall into line at the Taekwondo graduation and saw the narrow stare you gave Mimi as you saw her there among the ranks of the waiting green belts ;)

Milamber - what? You've been to Nightspore's Taekwondo graduation?

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Hastengas Offline




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Posted: Dec. 30 2010, 08:28

Quote (wiga @ Dec. 28 2010, 18:24)
Quote (Hastengas @ Dec. 28 2010, 15:59)
Deep man.....

Yes, maybe so, but fear not Hastengas - it is a message of glad tidings and great joy!

ok boss!

;-)
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0+1(I1) Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2011, 13:58

Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 30 2010, 02:11)
As some of you in here have learned by now, I do know Amarok by heart. There is not a single fragment of it that I cannot place into its proper context. Yet, after all of my repeated listenings of that mighty work [I think I've played at least 500-600 times, if not more!] I still cannot figure out what the meaning of some sections is supposed to be... of course, if there is a meaning! :D As the whole piece is supported by a story, many passages of which are closely related to the music, I guess Mike O. had in mind some sort of significance for every single bit of music included in Amarok. Yet there are some which still sound mysterious to me. For example, what is happening during the Hoover/Scot section, starting from 41:21? Is the bash-bash-bash-bash-bash-bash-bash at 42:08 justified by anything, or does it mean anything?

Another section which I have never been really able to understand, from a musical and developmental point of view, is towards the end of Mandolin Reprise 1, 2, 3. What is the Caveman (in his first appearance here in Amarok, long before Africa 1) supposed to be doing from 37:47 to 37:55? A fascinating reply, which someone (Korgscrew?) gave to me a long time ago on the IRC #mike_oldfield channel, was more or less as follows: "the machine which produces the music has broken down, and the Caveman is fixing it. At 38:39, you can hear that he succeeded." Well, this explanation may sound good. But, according to the story, the music is not produced by a machine. It is produced by a giant antropomorphic statue. So, is the Caveman actually repairing some sort of mechanism inside the statue, which allows it (he?) to produce music? What do you think?

Replies and comments are welcome and much appreciated. :)

Ugo I find we have agreement in large areas here in what you have proposed in your postings and some of the responses have to shown great insight & merit in logical form.
(LINK TO STORY http://tubular.net/discography/AmarokStory.shtml ).

The only thing I would currently like to add is has anyone considered that perhaps the most likely figures to be the two people in the story who set out on this journey to find the golden statue/monolith/effigy/IDOL? may possibly be Mike & Richard (virgin) Bran(D)son? please be sure to understand that I am in no way saying this is correct only that it is worthy of conscious thought.

As I really believe the two people the story speaks of are WE/you & I, in that in the story it tells us the journey could take place anywhere in the world (or just perhaps beyond).  As the words state: [in a place which may have been Ireland (but could just as easily have been Africa or Madagascar) (therefore this goal to reach must be omnipresent) there occurred a very unusual series of events.]. Thus I do not think it takes a huge leap of the imagination in order to consider the option that the two people are Mike & anyone of us who plays out this story by listening to its musical form, do we not in playing any of his music in a way go with him on a musical mystical journey to feel/see where he takes us?.

Well that is 1T IMHO! yet I can only now hope it is shared in good faith & considered for it's logic in a logical manner.

One last consideration I would like to suggest is worth spending time in wonderment in, would be: what would be the origin of the "SOUND"? & what is it we all at some point in our lives may go looking for?.  DOG! now that is a hard one to answer.  I suppose it is the golden question that humanity has been seeking ever since they began to OM on the subject those many many moons & DAWN'S long ago! is there a GOD? maybe?.

Oh and what was this album originally going  to be named? was it OMmaDAWN 2 or part 2?.
Yet lets not idle on it to long or we may miss the golden truth.
ALL THE BEST! EVERY ONE! I1...


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L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
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