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Topic: Incantations reissue available for pre-order< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
hairy old hippy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 25 2011, 08:14

Speaking of which I was bit surprised that the new sleeve notes didn't mention the Space Movie because it was apparently very important in the album's conception; Diana being the moon godess which is presumably why we have "diana lu-she-nar" as in she, lunar, the female moon godess.

As for space and the hi-tech association, I know where you're coming from, I guess it comes from sci-fi culture, space though is older and more ancient than the earth and our sci-fi which I know is blatantly obvious beyond belief but helps getting over that. I agree though, Icantations doesn't seem to sit well with the NASA footage, not sure why. Steam Trains though, just think of the chugging rhythm during part 1, just like a train, works beautifully I think.


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Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres.

Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums!

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Sammy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 25 2011, 08:44

Quote (hairy old hippy @ Aug. 25 2011, 15:14)
Diana being the moon godess which is presumably why we have "diana lu-she-nar" as in she, lunar, the female moon godess.

Is it "Diana Luna Lucina" by the way, the lyrics I mean? That's how I've heard them. (And at the very end of the Diana chant, both in parts 1 and 2 - "Diana, Luna, Lucina - Lumen", the last meaning "light")?

Anyway I do agree with the steam locomotive chugging thing. Michael the Tan... no, Tubular Engine :D

Btw have you heard the Finnish prog group Uzva's piece "Drontti"? It pays open homage at one point to that chugging string ostinato thingy. And the vibes of part 4! Check out this excerpt...
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Sammy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 25 2011, 09:01

Closer to the original topic then...

Has anyone here purchased the single-cd version of the new Incantations master? Is that fawlty as well - and if yes, when/if you've received a replacement copy is it the same blue one we deluxe edition buyers have been sent (with the 12:40 edit mistake)?

Speaking of which, it's interesting to see whether UMG will now fix the second glitch "behind the scenes" so to speak, and if thus in future pressings/copies of Incantations it will be "mysteriously" resolved - after all, it's possible that they just do not want to send us another replacement disc for free. In other words, maybe the copies they're making now to be sold are in fact glitch-free, the f-ckers just want us to buy them one more time!

Sorry if this sounds paranoid or overtly pessimistic. I just find it very very hard to believe that they haven't "noticed" the new glitch at all, or are "satisfied" with the new corrected version that we've receives as replacements.
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mindphaser Offline




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Posted: Aug. 25 2011, 09:30

Hmmm, I'm still not sure if I should buy this album after all I've read about it in the last weeks...  :/ Seems that the analogue master tape was seriously damaged at that edit point in part 4 - the problem is that it's not possible to "repair" analogue tapes when the information on the tape is lost. There may be two possible reasons that the previous CDs didn't have that "error" on them: 1. A copy of the original master tape was used for those releases (actually many CDs from the 1980s were not mastered from the 1st generation tapes but simply transferred from 2nd or 3rd generation copies that were originally used for cutting the vinyl records) or 2. The edit point on the original tape was still ok when it was digitised 25 years ago but has deteriorated since then. Maybe now Universal have put a piece from a copy of the master tape into the gap - that may be the reason for the increased tape hiss...
So the question is if I want to buy a CD knowing I'll have to repair some of the audio myself. At the moment I don't really want this...
Just some thoughts...  ;)


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hairy old hippy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 25 2011, 12:59

Quote (Sammy @ Aug. 25 2011, 08:44)
Quote (hairy old hippy @ Aug. 25 2011, 15:14)
Diana being the moon godess which is presumably why we have "diana lu-she-nar" as in she, lunar, the female moon godess.

Is it "Diana Luna Lucina" by the way, the lyrics I mean? That's how I've heard them. (And at the very end of the Diana chant, both in parts 1 and 2 - "Diana, Luna, Lucina - Lumen", the last meaning "light")?

I'm sure you're right Sammy, I guess the Lucina pronounciation adds a double entendre!

I'll check that link, sounds interesting.


--------------
Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres.

Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums!

www.andrewtaylor.bandcamp.com
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Pat Gleeson Offline




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Posted: Aug. 25 2011, 14:04

Quote (hairy old hippy @ Aug. 25 2011, 10:49)
It works beautifully, I actually prefer this to Space Movie!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/steamtrains/7313.shtml

I agree ! It's lovely :)  I never warmed to the Space Movie, despite being a huge Apollo era enthusiast. That film was badly structured IMO. Incantations doesn't lend itself to outer space rather than one's 'inner space' ...
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Tati The Sentinel Offline




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Posted: Aug. 25 2011, 15:50

Quote (Pat Gleeson @ Aug. 25 2011, 19:04)
Quote (hairy old hippy @ Aug. 25 2011, 10:49)
It works beautifully, I actually prefer this to Space Movie!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/steamtrains/7313.shtml

I agree ! It's lovely :)  I never warmed to the Space Movie, despite being a huge Apollo era enthusiast. That film was badly structured IMO. Incantations doesn't lend itself to outer space rather than one's 'inner space' ...

I do have the very same problem with The Space Movie,despite loving the golden era of space missions since I was very young.

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"But it's always the outsider, the black sheep, that becomes the blockbuster." - Mike Oldfield, 2014

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Highlander Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2011, 08:31

Interesting comment on Universal by Katherine Jenkins!

http://uk.omg.yahoo.com/gossip....more-id
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Hifiguru Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2011, 09:14

received replacement vinyl already but still waiting cds

compared matrixes of old and new vinyls...

original disc2:
side3: 93794E3/B
side4: 93794E4/C

replacement disc2:
side3: 93794E3/C
side4: 93794E4/H


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-TB Limited ultimate edition 2009 (still sealed)
-Hergest Ridge Limited 2010 #017
-Ommadawn Limited 2010 #065
-Incantations Limited 2011 #003
-Platinum Limited 2012 #316
-QE2 Limited 2012 #112
-Opening Ceremony London 2012 #61
-Five Miles Out 2013 Limited LP #116
-Crises 2013 Limited LP #259
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2011, 09:46

I received both the CD and the vinyl. My comments on the new glitch? Just one. It's there only if you care to notice. If you just let the music flow by (as I usually do with instrumental music, not just Mike's) you don't care about it at all. :D

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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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3Wheeler Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2011, 12:51

I wonder if Mike Has ever had any thoughts along these lines.
Probably Not.. :cool:

http://uk.omg.yahoo.com/gossip....more-id


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Hifiguru Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2011, 16:00

Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 26 2011, 09:46)
I received both the CD and the vinyl. My comments on the new glitch? Just one. It's there only if you care to notice. If you just let the music flow by (as I usually do with instrumental music, not just Mike's) you don't care about it at all. :D

after all i would not had even noticed first glitch if i were not reading these forums :P

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-TB Limited ultimate edition 2009 (still sealed)
-Hergest Ridge Limited 2010 #017
-Ommadawn Limited 2010 #065
-Incantations Limited 2011 #003
-Platinum Limited 2012 #316
-QE2 Limited 2012 #112
-Opening Ceremony London 2012 #61
-Five Miles Out 2013 Limited LP #116
-Crises 2013 Limited LP #259
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2011, 18:47

@ 3Wheeler: yes, I agree with you... probably not, because Mike is actually making money out of the whole remasters thing, or at least I think so. Ms. Jenkins' income from the lastest Universal release is most probably zero. :D

@ hifiguru: if you know Incantations Part 4 well enough ;), it would have been impossible for you not to notice the first glitch: the two percussive hits (clap & sleighbell) which were originally there had been reduced to just one. This created a bar of 7/8 rather than 8/8 (4/4).

However, talking about glitches, there's a mistake in the booklet that no-one (so far) seems to have noticed. (It's there in the Deluxe Edition, I don't know whether it's on the single-disc booklet as well.) The "Hymn to Diana" (or "Ode to Cynthia") lyrics in Part 4 were written in 1599 by English poet Ben Jonson, yet the booklet credits them to Ben Johnson - the famous 'doped' Canadian sprinter. :D It's not a typo, as it appears twice - once in a page, once in another - so whoever typed out the credits just didn't know the correct spelling of the poet's name. :p


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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Aug. 26 2011, 19:30

Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 26 2011, 18:47)
@ 3Wheeler: yes, I agree with you... probably not, because Mike is actually making money out of the whole remasters thing, or at least I think so. Ms. Jenkins' income from the lastest Universal release is most probably zero. :D

Mike comes across as a very spiritual person, so I doubt money is as important to him as some seem to think.
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2011, 06:48

@ nightspore: there's no doubt that Mike's overall attitute is that of a very spiritual person - I can easily see that. But then he did sign a deal with Universal/Mercury. A deal always involves money. Maybe I was wrong in suggesting that he is making lots of money from the reissues, maybe he actually doesn't care anything about money. But, considering everything that happened with the first pressing of the Incantations remaster, with its very obvious glitch, I tend not to think that there was a very high amount of care from Mike himself - i.e. he most probably didn't give the same amount of care to the remaster as he gave to the original release. Where the sleeve says "supervised by Mike Oldfield", my view of this is that someone (Adam Barker and Daryl Easlea?) made the remaster, then they sent the tapes to Mike; Mike, on his side, knowing perfecty about the disastrous state that the original tapes are in, may have listened to the tapes just once and thought "This is the very best they could do to salvage the bulk of the music, I shall give my approval." Maybe he did not even listen to Incantations all the way through. Maybe he did not even listen to the obvious glitch, because, if he did, he'd have probably been very angry towards Universal and/or the people who did the remaster for butchering up his music and he would have acted immediately to fix the problem. Instead, the problem stayed as it was, and we listeners had to take the trouble of writing to Universal, highlighting the glitch and asking for a replacement. And when the replacement has come, we've all seen that the problem hasn't been fully fixed because, of course, Mike is not involved any longer in the remaster and its fixing. So, in conclusion, if it's not a matter of money, I don't think I can honestly say that there was as much care involved with Incantations, on Mike's side, as there undoubtly was with TB and HR. Ms. Jenkins got shirty (to use a mild word) with Universal because they did nothing but repackage her old stuff without her involvement; Mike didn't, because he is somehow directly involved in the repackaging of his old stuff (he did sign a deal with Universal/Mercury which explicitly involved reissuing his back catalogue), but also because his interest in his old stuff has progressively diminished. This, of course, is just my opinion.

By the way, my vinyl copy is 204 of 500. The signature says M-k- o---ield, noticeably fuller than usual. :)


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Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
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Sammy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2011, 13:05

Quote (Ugo @ Aug. 26 2011, 16:46)
I received both the CD and the vinyl. My comments on the new glitch? Just one. It's there only if you care to notice. If you just let the music flow by (as I usually do with instrumental music, not just Mike's) you don't care about it at all. :D

Ugo, I sort of agree with you. It is quite true that the error on the replacement disc is a minimal one. And yet... the fact remains that no matter how much I like the music itself, it still is a shoddily made patching job; so what ultimately pisses me off is the UM/record company attitude towards the whole thing - they're "satisfied" with something that an AMATEUR could have EASILY fixed better.

I can't help but notice it no matter how "lazily" I try to hear the music - but it doesn't really diminish my listening pleasure as such (like the first glitch did), the remastering a wonderful job IMO otherwise & I love it - guess what I've been mostly listening for the past week or two? :D But there's also a principle involved and from that point of view I find the whole thing a bit sad.

Mind you, re: Johnson/Jonson - I haven't even read the booklet yet & bugger me if I'd noticed that anyway ;) But I guess it's ok otherwise - surely you can't do much worse than the (in places) embarrassingly uninformed HDCD editions' cover texts...
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doctorlard Offline




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Posted: Aug. 27 2011, 18:56

It is NOT a minor issue. Any audible mastering error in a premium Deluxe edition of any recording is totally unacceptable. Stop saying it's a minor issue when it clearly isn't.
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Olly Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2011, 07:25

Come On. This glitch thing is quite amusing. If there is a glitch in master tape, then it is there! Personally I don't care much of it. What should Mike to do? Play and record again the whole thing?  It is great to hear all these demos and other rare things. Artwork is beautiful and essay is instructive. The vinyl pressing was quite expensive ,yes, but nobody was forced to buy it. Don't get angry to me. This is only my opinion.     :)
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2011, 08:18

Quote (Olly @ Aug. 28 2011, 13:25)
Come On. This glitch thing is quite amusing. If there is a glitch in master tape, then it is there!

Of course it was there in the master tape - it got damaged (Mike knew about that) and the people at Universal tried to fix it by going back to the earlier HDCD mix, which is practically perfect (like Mary Poppins :laugh:). But then the new 2011 remaster is presented on the CD box and on the CD label as being 'supervised by Mike Oldfield' - this, IMHO, is where the real glitch is. If I were Mike and heard the first, obvious omission, I would not have given my permission for the remaster to be released with such a mistake, and I'd have done everything I could (yes, even re-record that particular bit - after all it's one second!! :D) to fix it. But in real life Mike, as I said, apparently did not put the same amount of care towards this particular reissue as he did with TB and HR and Ommadawn. If he really did, the glitches just wouldn't be there at all, and we'd all be happy. :D

@ doctorlard: as far as these remasters are concerned, "Deluxe Edition" is just a label to distinguish the 2 CD + DVD edition from the single CD edition. "Deluxe Editions" of other non-Universal releases are usually done much, much better than this, in every aspect. :)


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Sammy Offline




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Posted: Aug. 28 2011, 12:05

Quote (doctorlard @ Aug. 28 2011, 01:56)
It is NOT a minor issue. Any audible mastering error in a premium Deluxe edition of any recording is totally unacceptable. Stop saying it's a minor issue when it clearly isn't.

Ahem, please read the whole of my comment before telling me what to say or not to say. From the point of view of listening experience, IMHO it is just a very minor blemish, a fleeting moment. As stated earlier, those armed with a less acute sense of rhythm might not even notice the whole thing.

But I've never ever maintained that the shoddily made patching error isn't there, or that I'd think it's an acceptable job, for Dog's sake...

See, these are two different angles to the issue which do not necessarily contradict each other.

Oh well. I think I'm already repeating myself in this subject, so for my part the conclusion is more or less as follows:

Notes to self

1) Send a critical email re: the replacement patch job to Universal - check.
2) Warn potential buyers on Forum that there's still a spanner in the works - check.
3) Cast a happy glance at cd rack with three different cd incarnations of the album - check.
4) Reminisce happily about the vinyl you played so much that eventually you could hear parts 1 & 2 simultaneously - check.
5) Stop worrying and bickering about something you can't really change anymore - check. (Slap face in process, check.)
6) Continue enjoying "Incantations" like you've done for the past 25 years or so - check.
7) Leave thread, stop sounding like a broken record, refrain from any further comments about the issue - check.
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