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Topic: Incantations reissue available for pre-order< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
starfish Offline




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Posted: June 09 2011, 06:46

Quote (3Wheeler @ June 09 2011, 05:40)
The actual discs cost them Peanuts.. 123 the amount of discs dont matter to them.. They just hope everyone goes for the deluxe... and make more bucks bottom line..

Erm, no.

Say you're right, and each disc costs just 5p to manufacture/distrubute/package etc.

If you buy direct from Universal, you can get the standard edition for £9.99. Now assuming the discs only cost 5p, they are making a profit on the standard version of £9.94 per disc.

But the three-disc version costs £14.99, and the cost to Universal is 15p (3 discs @ 5p each). So the total profit on the Deluxe is £14.84 (£14.99 cost less 15p for the discs). Now, if you divide that £14.84 across each of the three discs, you can see that Universal's profit on the deluxe version is only £4.95 per disc.

Let's make it easy.

Say I was at Universal, and I had 300 blank discs. Say I made those discs into 100 of the deluxe versions. I could sell those 100 copies for £14.99 each and make £1499.00. But I'd have to subtract the cost of each disc, which you're assuming is £15.00 (300 discs @ 5p each). So my total profit on these 300 discs would be £1484.00

But alternatively I could use those 300 blank discs to make 300 of the standard edition. I could sell those 300 copies for £9.99 each and make £2997.00. Subtracting the £15 for the cost of the discs, and I'd be left with a profit of £2982.00

So although the discs cost peanuts, I'm still making double the profits with my 300 discs by selling the standard version, compared to the deluxe! Your argument just doesn't hold up.
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3Wheeler Offline




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Posted: June 09 2011, 07:05

yeah i dont think they bother dividing the discs and looking a profit per disc just profit over total outlay .. they make more on a deluxe unit simple as that really..  :cool:

£1484 per Deluxe unit  100 to £994 per 100 Standard per unit.


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We're Flying Aeroflot, We've Got Reservations.
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Elf Offline




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Posted: June 09 2011, 07:14

If they didn't make more money on the deluxe versions offered to us rabid fanboys and fangirls, they wouldn't have bothered offering them.

Besides, we don't know anything about what the costs are for Universal, so your calculations are pure speculations not to mention all too simplified as there are many more factors to be considered.

Editions like these are that record companies hope will keep them from dying, as they are not making much money on record sales.
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starfish Offline




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Posted: June 09 2011, 07:35

Quote (Elf @ June 09 2011, 07:14)
Besides, we don't know anything about what the costs are for Universal, so your calculations are pure speculations not to mention all too simplified as there are many more factors to be considered.


I dunno. Any way you look at it, the standard edition would be so much cheaper to produce. It has a third of the number of discs. It's smaller so easier to ship in large quantities. It uses a conventional jewel case (the costs of which are minimal), rather than a bespoke flip-out cardboard thing with an outer plastic sleeve. The DVD in the Deluxe is way more expensive to author/record than a standard CD. The standard CD only had some remastering done, none of the remixing that's gone on the deluxe edition. Any way you look at it, the deluxe should be at least double the price of the standard, yet it's only 50% extra.

Quote (Elf @ June 09 2011, 07:14)
Editions like these are that record companies hope will keep them from dying, as they are not making much money on record sales.


Nah, downloads and chart stuff are where the labels make their money - the top ten singles and albums these days sell absolutle bucketloads, even taking illegal downloads into account. I see Adele is making so much money these days she's on the Sunday Times Rich List! Deluxe editions and box sets are a niche market, a case of artists and labels desperately trying to wring as much cash from old material as possible. They're for hardcore fans only, like us. Unless you're The Beatles, you're never going to make a killing by selling a box set.
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Hifiguru Offline




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Posted: June 09 2011, 18:09

but usually more you press, its cheaper per disc...so cost of disc is alot more expensive if you do 1000 only instead of 10000

dunno about artwork cost but i guess universal does those deluxe packages to other artists as well so discount may hit in then also


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-TB Limited ultimate edition 2009 (still sealed)
-Hergest Ridge Limited 2010 #017
-Ommadawn Limited 2010 #065
-Incantations Limited 2011 #003
-Platinum Limited 2012 #316
-QE2 Limited 2012 #112
-Opening Ceremony London 2012 #61
-Five Miles Out 2013 Limited LP #116
-Crises 2013 Limited LP #259
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Bell Boy Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 02:54

I think we're not disputing that the delux versions are more expensive.....
what we are disputing is that the cost of a 3 to 4/5 disc  delux version.There is very little cost to go a extra disc or two....
As the fans are buying the DELUX versions,....
The cost of an extra disc would be pennies (I run a label and deal with these costs)
we could have had...

1.1978 mix
2.2011 mix remix ( assuming Mike wouldhave gone the extra mile for his fans and did the whole)
3.Extras (inc Space movie/reflections,etc/Speak)
4.DVD 5.1 mix ( Barcelona concert 1979/Videos) ..

We all paid £70 for the tubular bells box set,which had very little extras really..
So I think they wouldnt have lost many FANS if they charged £15.99 or even £18 for a 4 disc set...
I just think the person at Universal in charge as usuall is just knocking it out, not doing any market research and taking the easy route....unfortunately a bit like MO regarding the REMIX...
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stpaul Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 03:33

In the case of Incantations I find it quite strange that nothing from Space Movie and Reflections is included. If the Ommadawn Lost-Version wasn't actually lost, it's very unlikely that these soundtracks have been disappeared.

The other  thing I don't like is that the Deluxes Edition includes again the Exposed DVD stuff.  They should have included another concert. No matter if video or audio.

If a 4th CD is the too expensive, another possibility would have been to release a digital box set like in 2009 for TB.
On itunes the set included actually the 1976 Boxed mix of TB. Meanwhile the format, digital or physical, is not important for me any longer. They could offer a download set of Exposed concerts e.g. and for Universal it would cost a fraction of a cd release ! ... Just release it !
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hairy old hippy Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 04:35

Quote (stpaul @ June 10 2011, 03:33)
In the case of Incantations I find it quite strange that nothing from Space Movie and Reflections is included. If the Ommadawn Lost-Version wasn't actually lost, it's very unlikely that these soundtracks have been disappeared.

Mercury don't have the rights to Reflections, certainly Virgin never owned it. It was commissioned by the Arts Council who still own it as far as I am aware. I think a release of that film is highly unlikely which is a shame as there is a lot of very cool stuff in there, especially as the public is now a lot more aware of sacred geometry since Dan Brown's novels bacame so popular.

--------------
Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres.

Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums!

www.andrewtaylor.bandcamp.com
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hairy old hippy Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 04:46

PS, I, for one, am happy about the release and its contents. I think the remix concept worked well with Tubular Bells and Hergest Ridge because arguably they were necessary. By Ommadawn though Mike had firmly found his feet in the studio. Personally I find the new Ommadawn mix a lot less dynamic and Paddy Maloney's section reduced to, god forbid, 'mood music', the original genius jamming vibe between two world class musicians somehow lost. All this rehashing and revisiting isn't always healthy for a musician I don't think; all that looking at computer screens is bad for the soul.

Anyway Incantations is already a splendid masterpiece, if it ain't broke don't fix it! It needs some remastering which I was hoping for with the last reissue, I feel much more confident this time round though.


--------------
Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres.

Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums!

www.andrewtaylor.bandcamp.com
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 05:16

Quote (hairy old hippy @ June 10 2011, 04:35)
Quote (stpaul @ June 10 2011, 03:33)
In the case of Incantations I find it quite strange that nothing from Space Movie and Reflections is included. If the Ommadawn Lost-Version wasn't actually lost, it's very unlikely that these soundtracks have been disappeared.

Mercury don't have the rights to Reflections, certainly Virgin never owned it. It was commissioned by the Arts Council who still own it as far as I am aware. I think a release of that film is highly unlikely which is a shame as there is a lot of very cool stuff in there, especially as the public is now a lot more aware of sacred geometry since Dan Brown's novels bacame so popular.

Good grief - I haven't heard of "Reflections"! What music is on it?
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stpaul Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 05:16

Quote (hairy old hippy @ June 10 2011, 04:35)
[/quote]
Mercury don't have the rights to Reflections, certainly Virgin never owned it. It was commissioned by the Arts Council who still own it as far as I am aware. I think a release of that film is highly unlikely which is a shame as there is a lot of very cool stuff in there, especially as the public is now a lot more aware of sacred geometry since Dan Brown's novels bacame so popular.

I know. I was refering to the music
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stpaul Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 05:19

Quote (nightspore @ June 10 2011, 05:16)
[/quote]
Good grief - I haven't heard of "Reflections"! What music is on it?

Here is the link:


Reflection
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 09:23

Quote (stpaul @ June 10 2011, 05:19)
Quote (nightspore @ June 10 2011, 05:16)
[/quote]
Good grief - I haven't heard of "Reflections"! What music is on it?

Here is the link:


Reflection

Thanks, St Paul.  :)
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hairy old hippy Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 12:01

Quote (stpaul @ June 10 2011, 05:16)
Quote (hairy old hippy @ June 10 2011, 04:35)
[/quote]
Mercury don't have the rights to Reflections, certainly Virgin never owned it. It was commissioned by the Arts Council who still own it as far as I am aware. I think a release of that film is highly unlikely which is a shame as there is a lot of very cool stuff in there, especially as the public is now a lot more aware of sacred geometry since Dan Brown's novels bacame so popular.

I know. I was refering to the music

Ah, I see, sorry. I think there was some speculation that 'Piano Improvisation' might be from Reflection, perhaps it's the syncopated riff from that film, what do you think? There's certainly lots of Incantations demos and different mixes etc in Reflection including missing vocals, shame not to get them, guess we'll have to wait and see.

--------------
Listen to Mohribold; an epic musical tapestry that weaves between a multitude of genres.

Andrew Taylor's Mohribold album has proved very popular with fans of symphonic-rock, prog-rock, psych-folk and indeed Oldfield's classic albums!

www.andrewtaylor.bandcamp.com
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HR lover Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 13:30

Can I buy that movie somewhere?

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Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
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wiga Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 16:42

Quote (stpaul @ June 10 2011, 10:19)
Reflection

Wow - lovely.

A lot of tunes from Ommadawn and Incantations.

This 1977 nature programme was VERY blessed!


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Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
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stpaul Offline




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Posted: June 10 2011, 18:32

Quote (hairy old hippy @ June 10 2011, 12:01)
Quote (stpaul @ June 10 2011, 05:16)
Quote (hairy old hippy @ June 10 2011, 04:35)

Mercury don't have the rights to Reflections, certainly Virgin never owned it. It was commissioned by the Arts Council who still own it as far as I am aware. I think a release of that film is highly unlikely which is a shame as there is a lot of very cool stuff in there, especially as the public is now a lot more aware of sacred geometry since Dan Brown's novels bacame so popular.

I know. I was refering to the music

Ah, I see, sorry. I think there was some speculation that 'Piano Improvisation' might be from Reflection, perhaps it's the syncopated riff from that film, what do you think? There's certainly lots of Incantations demos and different mixes etc in Reflection including missing vocals, shame not to get them, guess we'll have to wait and see.[/quote]
Yes "Piano Improvisation" could be the piano at 14:30 in Reflection (refering to the video link above). You can hear the same tune without guitars in "All you need is love" at 3:55

All You Need Is Love
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Osiris Offline




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Posted: June 11 2011, 03:19

Funny to hear that in the Reflection's piano improvisation there are bits of what will become Platinum. Just hear from 15'12 on reflection video, and hear Platinum part2 from 4'14 or from 5'42. Chords are the same, and melody almost the same too at some places, i just realized it ^^
Interesting to see that before giving birth to the splendid Incantations album he had composed bits of music for the album after  :)

And related to the start subject, i can't wait to hear the remix parts of Incantations, yay ! :D
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theweightless Offline




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Posted: June 11 2011, 03:59

i can see mike and his record company laughing and thinking how many times they can sell us the same product :p

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ASMK
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Highlander Offline




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Posted: June 11 2011, 04:30

Personally I'm not sure Mike is all that interested in any of his past music. I get the impression he started off with some interest in these re-issues, particularly with HR but has now got bored. Money doesn't drive him, but he'll fulfil a few obligations to Universal so that they can re-issue. (He only has to make a slight contribution for them to say remixed or remastered by MO - the rest can be engineered by others) I suspect Incantations Deluxe will be the last re-issue I'll buy(unless they issue a remix of Amarok!;). I liked the extras on Ommadawn, but not the final stereo remix and I don't believe for a minute MO was that closely invloved as he's too much of a perfectionist to have let that go out with the mix errors it had. Let's hope he's lost interest because he's doing something new that's has him inspired!
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