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Topic: Good\Bad guitarist< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
ex member 419 Offline




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Posted: July 01 2009, 11:48

Caveman i  have put them away for now, will listen to and appreciate accomplished guitar playing, maybe clapton, knopfler, bolan and t rex, bit of oldfield, deb
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The Caveman Offline




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Posted: July 01 2009, 11:55

All good players. :)

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ex member 419 Offline




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Posted: July 07 2009, 21:41

Hi Caveman, have been so busy, really want to play my electric, have to make time. Still trying to work on fingerpicking technique on electric, not so easy. Have nailed it on classical and acoustic though. Have fun in the English sun! Very cold here. Mike is lucky cruising the Bahamas, but then he has worked hard and deserves that time with family, still envy that technique of his, though, Cheers, Deb :p
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The Caveman Offline




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Posted: July 08 2009, 04:36

Glad you're perservering.Sun?Hmmm rained and thundered for the last few days so not that much sun.
 I have to learn to fingerpick on electric some cos we've decided to 'go electric'.Still going to keep doing some acoustic gigs but we want to experiment with a full band.Kind of cool cos i do miss playing electric sometimes.Keep playing. :)


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ex member 419 Offline




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Posted: July 29 2009, 01:06

Good one caveman, you are going electric! You will blow them away my man, glad to hear you persevered with fingerpicking on electric, I have a ways to go before I can do it without making the darn thing squeal! Thank heavens i have neighbours who don't mind being tortured by my playing! Keep on keeping on my friend,
Deb :p
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oGUH Offline




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Posted: April 05 2011, 18:16

Quote (ex member 337 @ Jan. 08 2001, 17:17)
My guitar teacher has called him a crap guitarist, and refuses to teach me anything by him.

I would dismiss any teacher who calls any music "crap"  :( ,especially Mike's ! ,hope this guy found another job
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Bell Boy Offline




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Posted: May 07 2011, 20:42

NOW..Ive been debating if I should or could post this reply...
But regarding "good or Bad"...
I would say this ,on record he is NO.1.... NO EQUAL...BUT
In a live gig.... ohhhhh thats a different story...
I have ,like so many others a great collection of live recordings
and am stunned by the number of HOWLERS.....
I would say that if there is ever a reason why he doesnt like gigging.... its because of his nerves or heaven forbid his live technique,where you cant stop the tape and do another take....
In total defence when its going good ,its AMAZING,but you feel your walking a tightrope when you watching/listening...
I remember watching the TUB BELLS II gig ,and the buying the DVD... the amount of repairs to the guitar ...
You only have to see the look of terror and uncomfortableness ,especially on the later concerts....
SO... being a musician, I know its not about brilliant technique,its about emotion, that Mike has 100%.
So I'll take all he 10% bum notes in return for  90%of brilliance live.
.....and OHHHH I'm desperate for one more chance to see him live (even though I know he may be not enjoying it 100%)
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Cavalier (Lost Version) Offline




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Posted: May 14 2011, 09:59

Sometimes I look at topics that have new posts but several pages and decide I won't bother reading straight away, in case some of the posts from a while back, that I don't have time to read, are crucial to understanding the flow.  I'm hypocritical enough to not care if that affects anyone else, so I'll start by saying: Poor Britters!  Loved, tolerated or a demonic figurehead of corporate pop, but no-one here thought to point out she co-wrote (and played piano live) on the next release after Toxic, Everytime.  Good or bad, it was successful (number one here, for what that's worth) and left her on a career high that she and the world's media were oh-so-careful to demolish in record time.  She's been back and away again a few times since, which helps illustrate that you have to fight for your right to the creative limelight (kiss the wrong prince and the tabloids will give you all the personal fame you'd never wish for).

One of Mike's problems, when it comes to rated recognition in polls and the like, is that he has a generally low profile and not a wild, rock-god one on the occasions when he is trying to attract our attention.  That doesn't make him unique, of course, but it's a drawback in standing out from a crowd.  If we at Tubular Net simply asked each other to name bands that we admire with lead or rhythm guitar players of genius in them, I'd imagine we'd easily go past 200.  Factor in a larger voting quorum, with wider music genres and national or regional favourites, and the passing of time and the chances of anyone maintaining consistent fame diminish.

And Mike's reputation also has to deal with the antipathy of generations of journalists and reviewers who worship at the altar of the sacrifice of seventies pomp.  I can add a couple of nasty comments off the top of my head.  I caught the singles round-up in the New Musical Express when Man In The Rain was out, and if I don't remember it word-for-word, I do remember the unpleasant insult that was included.  {If you really want to know, I'll send a PM but honestly, your life won't be any better for it}

The other is more vague (you'll be surprised to learn!;) in that a family of fellow ex-patriates returned from a visit to the UK and my friend, the son, gave me a newspaper they'd each read about four times across all the trains and flights.  It was one of the English regional dailies, but I've no idea which - the family was from the north-east, but whether it was something from York or Newcastle or Middlesborough (or another region entirely!;) is a detail I've long-since forgotten.  Whatever I thought about the news in the Mystery City, I would have been more interested in the entertainment sections and this was the weekly music column day.  This was before I was a fan - it's mid-1984 I think - so a mention of Mike Oldfield is a detail, passing like any other, and if it stood out, it's likely that I just thought that the columnist was going a little over the top in stating that he was not a fan either.  It wasn't a review of singles, etc, just a column of opinions, so in the absence of any tours at the time, it was probably a reaction to the timing of a release  - late Crises maybe, Discovery likely, The Killing Fields possibly.  Unless he'd got into the UK papers for something at the time - "Mike Oldfield says: Be nice to sparrows!".   What I definitely remember is that Mike was described as "always being a middling-poor guitarist"  and that there was no part of the Tubular Bells legend that hadn't been done before, and better, by other musicians that Richard Branson and Mike had ruthlessly trodden on to reach their barely deserved success.  I can't recall learning about Kevin Ayers until after I started buying Mike's music, but I fear that he got it in the neck as well - I remember that whosoever the victimised musicians were (McCartney's self-played album was one referenced) it probably wasn't the guy being talked about in "...the only work he managed to get before was with the terminally under-achieving...".  Sorry, Kev!

Whether this was a journalist dreaming of working his was way up to the indie press, or someone on the skids from a high-flying past life he typifies many.  Mike's talent as a brilliant guitarist in works that I will always enjoy will be lost on many who don't want to know that they might enjoy some or a lot of his back catatlogue.  We are long-overdue a cool, independent British band having at least one member who cites him.  The rest of the world, I leave up to you!


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Simon M Offline




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Posted: June 09 2011, 08:53

Mike is definitely an underrated guitarist, and I think a part of this is the fact that he's more interested in making music than playing the whole game of being interviewed, having his photo taken, doing publicity junkets, etc.

His work may be popular, but he's never been a populist, if you see what I mean.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: June 09 2011, 09:04

Quote (Simon M @ June 09 2011, 08:53)
Mike is definitely an underrated guitarist, and I think a part of this is the fact that he's more interested in making music than playing the whole game of being interviewed, having his photo taken, doing publicity junkets, etc.

His work may be popular, but he's never been a populist, if you see what I mean.

Mozart had a similar experience. He was a piano virtuoso, but his other musical talents drew the focus away from his playing.
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Simon M Offline




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Posted: June 11 2011, 09:34

I play guitar, and Mike Oldfield is the reason.

I don't see how anyone could describe him as being anything other than a virtuoso - he's technically impressive and plays with real emotion.
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: June 11 2011, 17:51

@ nightspore and Simon M.: I guess that Mike is commonly perceived as an underrated guitarist not only because he's a multi-instrumentalist (as someone in this thread already said), but because he isn't flashy - not even live. Most of the best-known guitarists out there are flashy - they all have a whole range of tics, mannerisms and poses they strike, especially on stage. Even Eric Clapton, which I think is one of the most restrained players ever (especially right now) has his peculiar poses during live shows. Mike has no tics, no mannerisms and no poses - I repeat, not even during concerts, not even in videos. The only peculiar thing he does is the violin-like vibrato - he moves his right-hand fingers to do vibrato notes like he was playing a violin rather than a guitar. But, apart from that, he has got nothing particularily flashy or peculiar or visually remarkable in his guitar playing (although, of course, his guitar playing is excellent, and totally different from a lot of guitarists... :D). Also, he plays electric guitar with his fingernails, which is something that, as far as I know, no other rock/pop guitarist does (I think Mark Knopfler plays with his fingertips). All of this, I think, combined with the fact that most of his music (especially from the 2000s onwards) is not particularily flashy or virtuosistic, contributes to Mike being perceived as an underrated guitarist. Of course this is only my own point of view. :)

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nightspore Offline




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Posted: June 11 2011, 22:16

Quote (Ugo @ June 11 2011, 17:51)
@ nightspore and Simon M.: I guess that Mike is commonly perceived as an underrated guitarist not only because he's a multi-instrumentalist (as someone in this thread already said), but because he isn't flashy - not even live. Most of the best-known guitarists out there are flashy - they all have a whole range of tics, mannerisms and poses they strike, especially on stage. Even Eric Clapton, which I think is one of the most restrained players ever (especially right now) has his peculiar poses during live shows. Mike has no tics, no mannerisms and no poses - I repeat, not even during concerts, not even in videos. The only peculiar thing he does is the violin-like vibrato - he moves his right-hand fingers to do vibrato notes like he was playing a violin rather than a guitar. But, apart from that, he has got nothing particularily flashy or peculiar or visually remarkable in his guitar playing (although, of course, his guitar playing is excellent, and totally different from a lot of guitarists... :D). Also, he plays electric guitar with his fingernails, which is something that, as far as I know, no other rock/pop guitarist does (I think Mark Knopfler plays with his fingertips). All of this, I think, combined with the fact that most of his music (especially from the 2000s onwards) is not particularily flashy or virtuosistic, contributes to Mike being perceived as an underrated guitarist. Of course this is only my own point of view. :)

Ah yes, "empty virtuosity" is the term they used to apply to classical musicians who were guilty of it. Paganini used to get criticized for it.
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sikejsudjek Offline




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Posted: Mar. 18 2012, 10:41

I would rate him as an excellent guitar player. I've taught Guitar for 28 years, and it isn't about playing zillions of notes per second. Its about communicating emotion, being innovative and taking you to a spiritual place which connects with something greater. It doesn't follow automatically that great technique does this, or that poor technique necessarily precludes it. Its from the heart not the head.

Possibly why Mike gets less appreciation as a guitarist than he deserves is that his music being more complex takes more effort to get into. However that's also what makes it worth listening to again and again. Its often technically difficult, always innovative and communicates emotion in spades.
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Posted: Mar. 18 2012, 11:18

To me, Mike is probably my favorite guitarist ever. I also think he should be more recognized as a bass player, because his bass playing is insanely good. On either instrument, though, I can't think of one other musician who can play as cleanly and flawlessly (particularly in the studio).

A lot of people say Mike isn't flashy, but I feel Mike could be flashy when he wanted. Amarok for example features his most virtuoistic guitar playing in his entire catalogue. That album is the peak of his guitar playing for me; some of the solos he plays "a zillion notes per second" while other are played with the feel and emotion most people associate with Mike's playing. Whenever I want to impress someone with Mike's playing, I play that album.
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bob the screamer Offline




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Posted: Mar. 18 2012, 14:01

Quote (GusFogle @ Mar. 18 2012, 17:18)
A lot of people say Mike isn't flashy, but I feel Mike could be flashy when he wanted. Amarok for example features his most virtuoistic guitar playing in his entire catalogue. That album is the peak of his guitar playing for me; some of the solos he plays "a zillion notes per second" while other are played with the feel and emotion most people associate with Mike's playing. Whenever I want to impress someone with Mike's playing, I play that album.


Exactly! He only plays extremely fast or difficult when the music calls for it. He does not play fast/difficult just to show off.


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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Mar. 18 2012, 19:54

@ GusFogle: I agree with you about the "clean" feel of Mike's playing, which derives from his nail-picking combined with another technique he learned from folk, i.e. muting unplayed strings. However, I think that some fast passages Amarok are meant to be extremely complex rather than virtuosistic, even if sometimes the two terms are synonymous. If you care to notice, you will hear how, even in his fastest solos, Mike never loses the basic melody over which he's soloing. Listen to the "Fast Waltz" solo starting at 22:30, or to "Lion Reprise" at 36:45. Both of these feature a very strict, very regimented melodic development. Even the apparently unplayable "Fast Riff" in 5/4, which is at the very start and recurs throughout, follows a definite melody which is made very clear when the classical (nylon-string) guitar plays it at 1:18 (dum dum dum dum... [vocoder] wa ki ki ka! :)). Most of the fastest, flashiest solos ever recorded by other famous guitarists, of which I'm not naming any here :D, have very little melody as they're based almost exclusively on improvisation.

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GusFogle Offline




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Posted: Mar. 18 2012, 20:17

One phrase of the opening "fast riff" actually consists of 4 measures of 19/16 followed by 2 measures of 15/16. This part is actually not that difficult to perform on guitar, although it is fast. The fretting hand basically stays in the same position and most of the work is done by the thumb, index and middle fingers of the right hand. Impossible to perform with a pick, though. On piano its an entirely different monster, one that took me a couple of months to master at the correct tempo.

The solo starting at 22:30 of the fast waltz and the lion reprise are, for me, the hardest parts of Amarok to perform. And if you think those parts are unplayable on guitar, just try it on piano! Ive learned the whole thing however, and you can hear the results of my work after the first ever complete live performance of Amarok on 4/27/12, which I will upload on youtube.

I will agree that even the lion reprise (which mostly consists of descending triplets down the E minor scale and variations of arpeggios in E and B minor) and the fast waltz (which is mostly arpeggios in A minor and E major with a few tricky bits in between) are melodically relevant because they are "composed" solos. Mike recorded these parts puposefully, knowing exactly how he wanted them to sound. This is opposed to a "shred" guitarist just playing the same old pentatonic patterns up and down the neck.
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Skybreaker Offline




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Posted: May 09 2012, 16:08

Quote (GusFogle @ Mar. 19 2012, 01:17)
This is opposed to a "shred" guitarist just playing the same old pentatonic patterns up and down the neck.

Not all shredders just do this of course ;)

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Posted: Sep. 27 2012, 14:46

Quote (bennyboy @ Jan. 09 2001, 01:07)
Now I've been thinking, what has Mike done to deserve the "prog-rock loser" label thats been put on him?

Perhaps its the fact that "Tubular Bells" was truly groundbreaking, innovative and original in the seventies. But his other albums of long instrumentals ("Ommadawn", "Hergest Ridge" and "Amarok") were perceived as just more of the same kind of stuff from Oldfield, he wasn't doing anything groundbreaking anymore.....

My speculation about this is all this becouse when there is a star then all of the surrounding wants their own cut and if You dont agree to play with their own rules the game then they begin to sabotage artist. So that the artist "is supposed to be" press friendly and label friendly.
That actually makes perfect sense why some quite crappy bands get pressreleases (they newspapers, magazines by being on headlines!;). And those who are hard to deal with, dont get that friendliness. Every hairy hand between listener and mike is after his own cut!

There are several albums where Mike Oldfield have done also the common intro-verse-chorus-verse-chorus type music. "Earth Moving", "Islands", "Voyager", "The songs of distant earth" to name a few etc... which are not all from 80s. Also in his biography ("Changeling") MO wrote that after this "Moonlight Shadow" he got suggestion "to stick with that from now on" and just suspend his own direction...
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