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familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: June 28 2023, 13:44 I've been absolutely hammering all the different mix variations of the first three albums, and I would choose the following for my definitive collection: TUBULAR BELLS Part One: 2023. All those previous attempts to fix the imperfections (1976, 2003, 2009) are put into the shade by David Kosten's new mix. It's like the 1973 original, but sharper and cleaner. And the proper bells and organ are back! Part Two: 1973. That out-of-sync bass prevents the 2023 from grabbing double glory. The 2009 was good, but it didn't trump the 1973 for me. HERGEST RIDGE Part One: Both 1974 *and* 1976, because they're such different listening experiences. If pushed I'd probably choose the 1976 because of that fat bass guitar getting a chance to shine uncluttered, but I've come to appreciate the 1974 original more of late. The 2010 doesn't get a look in because a) it was edited, and b) the infamous "12:12 incident". Part Two: 2010. I thought that the 2010 brought together the best qualities of the 1974 and the 1976. The "thunderstorm" section never sounded better, and the vocals are nice and clear (both of these factors rule out the 1974 original for me). The 1976 comes in second. OMMADAWN Parts One and Two: 1975. The 2010 seemed to suck the energy and fire out of the mighty guitar climax in Part One, and despite some interesting differences in Part Two, I'd still pick the original mix. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1767 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: June 28 2023, 14:50 I prefer the originals, all the way through, although the 2010 of HR is cool! I must confess that I don't get the "Boxed" Hergest Ridge at all. There is a part (the trumpet bit), where the the mix seems to focus on the second harmony guitar - a choice that is rather un-musical to me. It sounds like someone listening through the mix, to check that they got a certain part right. -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: June 28 2023, 16:13 Quote (larstangmark @ June 28 2023, 14:50) There is a part (the trumpet bit), where the the mix seems to focus on the second harmony guitar - a choice that is rather un-musical to me. I've never made a note of exactly what's missing from the Boxed mix. I wouldn't even know it was a "second harmony guitar" that was featured in lieu of the missing parts. I just enjoy the space in the mix. But like I said, I'd take the 1974 mix of Hergest Ridge Part One as well. It's taken me a long time (since 1976 when I first heard the LP, in fact) to finally enjoy the original version. It was the Boxed mix that first allowed me to enjoy the album. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

Sentinel_NZ Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: June 2021 Posted: July 05 2023, 22:05 Quote (familyjules @ June 28 2023, 13:44) I've been absolutely hammering all the different mix variations of the first three albums, and I would choose the following for my definitive collection: TUBULAR BELLS Part One: 2023. All those previous attempts to fix the imperfections (1976, 2003, 2009) are put into the shade by David Kosten's new mix. It's like the 1973 original, but sharper and cleaner. And the proper bells and organ are back! Part Two: 1973. That out-of-sync bass prevents the 2023 from grabbing double glory. The 2009 was good, but it didn't trump the 1973 for me. HERGEST RIDGE Part One: Both 1974 *and* 1976, because they're such different listening experiences. If pushed I'd probably choose the 1976 because of that fat bass guitar getting a chance to shine uncluttered, but I've come to appreciate the 1974 original more of late. The 2010 doesn't get a look in because a) it was edited, and b) the infamous "12:12 incident". Part Two: 2010. I thought that the 2010 brought together the best qualities of the 1974 and the 1976. The "thunderstorm" section never sounded better, and the vocals are nice and clear (both of these factors rule out the 1974 original for me). The 1976 comes in second. OMMADAWN Parts One and Two: 1975. The 2010 seemed to suck the energy and fire out of the mighty guitar climax in Part One, and despite some interesting differences in Part Two, I'd still pick the original mix. Jules Hergest Ridge 2010 is by far the superior versionof that album in my opinion...the others don't even enter into the equation (least of all the orchestral recording, but that goes without saying). But can I ask what you mean by "the 12:12 incident"?  I don't hear anything wrong so would like to know what I'm missing Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1767 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: July 07 2023, 05:50 Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ July 05 2023, 22:05) [quote=familyjules,June 28 2023, 13:44] But can I ask what you mean by "the 12:12 incident"?  I don't hear anything wrong so would like to know what I'm missing The 2010 mix has a prominent rhythm guitar, that is only hinted at in the first two mixes. Many think it's kind of jerky and off-beat. It's not what an engineer would refer to as a "keeper". I remember much discussion about this section when the 2010 mix was released. -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

shenry Group: Members Posts: 131 Joined: Oct. 2018 Posted: July 07 2023, 13:03 I totally get the comments about the Hergest Ridge "12:12 incident" - it's actually a bit of an abomination. I think it sounds more like a banjo than a guitar. I can't believe he left it in there. I agree with the original poster - that plus the curtailed guitar solo bit really ruin part 1 of the 2010 mix for me. My favourite mixes: I'm afraid I have to be slightly boring and just say I think the 1976 Boxed mixes nailed it for all three of albums. - The Tubular Bells one tidied it up a bit. Best improvement was putting a bigger echo on the organ stabs and the start, and improving (re-recording I think?) the bells themselves. It also removed a lot of the novelty panning and effects of the original. And the quad mix is fantastic. - Hergest Ridge - yes, I'm a Boxed lover for this one. The sparseness just works for me. I find the original mix gets too repetitive otherwise. That said, the surround mix from 2010 is a good one for getting an immersive experience with sounds flying out from all around. - Ommadawn - the Boxed mix is almost identical to the original mix i think? So it's not much between. Both are better than the 2010 remix which loses a lot of the interesting dynamics, especially on part 2 (guitar and pipes too abrasive and loud. But again the 2010 one is good for the surround mix. Back to top

Sentinel_NZ Group: Members Posts: 216 Joined: June 2021 Posted: July 07 2023, 17:47 Quote (larstangmark @ July 07 2023, 05:50) Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ July 05 2023, 22:05) [quote=familyjules,June 28 2023, 13:44] But can I ask what you mean by "the 12:12 incident"?  I don't hear anything wrong so would like to know what I'm missing The 2010 mix has a prominent rhythm guitar, that is only hinted at in the first two mixes. Many think it's kind of jerky and off-beat. It's not what an engineer would refer to as a "keeper". I remember much discussion about this section when the 2010 mix was released. Oh....right I hear it now.  I had noticed that but kind of thought it all added to the "charm".  But I totally get where you're coming from. Back to top

larstangmark Group: Members Posts: 1767 Joined: Mar. 2005 Posted: July 09 2023, 17:08 Quote (shenry @ July 07 2023, 13:03) - Hergest Ridge - yes, I'm a Boxed lover for this one. The sparseness just works for me. I find the original mix gets too repetitive otherwise. That said, the surround mix from 2010 is a good one for getting an immersive experience with sounds flying out from all around. I bought Hergest Ridge on vinyl in 1983, and it was of course the 1974 mix. It was the first record that I bought with my own money, and I loved it to bits. I never bothered getting "boxed", so the first time I heard the 1976 mix was when I bought HR on CD, as a replacement of my LP. I was NOT prepared for a different mix of the album. I was actually checking my speaker cables and balance settings, because some instruments just seemed gone (I had a traumatic experience of listening to "A Saucerful of Secrets" on a set with one speaker dead, where the vocals were missing for certain sections!. I agree that the Boxed remix has its moments, as it's more soothing and less busy. But the trumpets were such a big draw for me, and I can't stand them being turned down. With the original mix, HR part 1 was a piece of music about war and revenge. The Boxed remix is just Popol Vuh style tranquility. -------------- "There are twelve people in the world, the rest are paste" Mark E Smith Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: July 10 2023, 06:17 Quote (larstangmark @ July 09 2023, 17:08) With the original mix, HR part 1 was a piece of music about war and revenge. I definitely never had that impression. Even with the 1974 mix, I always thought it was a fairly tranquil piece, Part Two's thunderstorm aside. But as I said in my original post - both of the first two mixes of Part One are essential for me. I'm fascinated by the contrasts. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

First_Excursion Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: Aug. 2012 Posted: July 23 2023, 00:03 Quote (familyjules @ June 28 2023, 13:44) (1976, 2003, 2009) are put into the shade by David Kosten's new mix. I'm finding that hard to believe but I don't have the stamina right now to give yet.. another... Tubular Bells a fair evaluation. I love all the Boxed mixes. I don't think 2003 was necessary at all, is the 2009 one based on that? Back to top

familyjules Group: Members Posts: 1190 Joined: May 2004 Posted: July 23 2023, 06:29 Quote (First_Excursion @ July 23 2023, 00:03) Quote (familyjules @ June 28 2023, 13:44) (1976, 2003, 2009) are put into the shade by David Kosten's new mix. I'm finding that hard to believe but I don't have the stamina right now to give yet.. another... Tubular Bells a fair evaluation. I love all the Boxed mixes. I don't think 2003 was necessary at all, is the 2009 one based on that? No, the 2009 and the 2023 are very different beasts. The 2009 includes elements of the 1976 because that was what was left on the mastertapes after some of the 1973 parts were wiped. The 2023 flies those original elements back into the mix. Jules -------------- I like beer and I like cheese Back to top

First_Excursion Group: Members Posts: 280 Joined: Aug. 2012 Posted: July 23 2023, 21:07 Thanks, I'll get 2023 at some point I expect, the market has been so saturated with them lately I can hardly take it seriously rn. I did quite like the novelty of the 5.1 DVD Audio version. Back to top

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