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Question: Favorite Taurus :: Total Votes:64
Poll choices Votes Statistics
Taurus I (QE2) 12  [18.75%]
Taurus II (Five Miles Out) 35  [54.69%]
Taurus III (Crisis) 9  [14.06%]
can't make a choice!!! 8  [12.50%]
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Topic: Favorite Taurus< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: May 22 2007, 01:07

I'd be happy to have lots more 'Taurus' pieces, but what I'd like more is an entire 'Taurus' album!

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"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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Moz Offline




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Posted: May 22 2007, 09:54

I voted on this poll ages ago, but I can't remember what for  :laugh:

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Jesse Offline




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Posted: Feb. 11 2008, 15:19

Quote (Baggiesfaninessex @ April 12 2005, 12:08)
Taurus II for me, not just because it's the longest of the three. It would have been Taurus I, but toward the end it seriously loses it's way before the climax and sounds too much of a mish-mash. Sorry, this may not make sense to many, but I know what I mean. I'd better dig the vinyl out again so I can give approximate times of where it all seems to get a tad messy.

Punkadiddle = Taurus 0? I've never heard that either. Has Mike said that or is it merely a suggestion to debate?

wait. What?

the end of taurus 1 is the best thing on the whole album :O I'd go so far to say it is his best stuff of the 80's....that vocoder part build incredibly and it's mind boggling why he stopped with it so soon.

Watching that part live on montreux dvd....what can I say? I didn't know electronic music was already that powerfull so soon in the 80's. Ofcourse it is just a vocoder. But it sounds stronger than many dance acts of this decenium.
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Dirk Star Offline




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Posted: Feb. 12 2008, 05:44

Quote (Jesse @ Feb. 11 2008, 15:19)

wait. What?

the end of taurus 1 is the best thing on the whole album :O I'd go so far to say it is his best stuff of the 80's....that vocoder part build incredibly and it's mind boggling why he stopped with it so soon.

Watching that part live on montreux dvd....what can I say? I didn't know electronic music was already that powerfull so soon in the 80's. Ofcourse it is just a vocoder. But it sounds stronger than many dance acts of this decenium.


I`ve never really been a big fan of Mike`s vocoder stuff.Or anybody`s vocoder stuff for that matter.It just seemed to me like another one of those instances where Mike thought he was being ahead of the game in the use of brand new state of the art technology and stuff.While meanwhile I was sat there at home thinking to myself..."Jesus wept all he needs now is an Anita Ward/Ring My Bell type syn drum on here and it`s naffness will be fully complete."

And then the trouble is years later people like Daft Punk and Air come along and people start to think that.."Yeah!. Vocoders must`ve been like way cool back in the day man."Where as in actual fact they were fighting it out towards the crap end of the styleometer with the likes of deely boppers and pixie boots.They weren`t even on a par with leg warmers that`s how ungroovy those babies were.

Anyway despite all that I completely agree with you Jesse the build up and end of Taurus 1 is also my favourite part of the album.Maybe he could`ve played that final ascending melody on a stlylophone and I still would`ve loved it.Or maybe some masochistic side of me deep down really digs vocoders I honestly don`t know.All I know is everytime that track starts to fade out it leaves me wanting more.So much so I often play it twice in fact.Could well be his best stuff from the 80`s as well.Out of all his output from that decade it`s still the one I listen to the most[I]
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The Caveman Offline




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Posted: Feb. 12 2008, 07:28

There's sick and twisted idea.Mike Oldfield music on a stylopnone.I like it.
 Two slightly distorted electric stylophones etc.Brilliant!!!
Seriously though.i'm not a massive vocoder fan (ELO's Mr Blue Sky excepted)but i prefer the vocoder bit on the montreux DVD as it's slowed to an almost stateky pace which suits it far better.However (at the risk of bitter criticism)as much as i do enjoy QE2 it has dated rather badly.But then so's FMO and of all the early 80's LPs this is my favourite.


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THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH.
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Jesse Offline




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Posted: Feb. 12 2008, 10:38

yeah i agree about vocoders: they are not cool!

but honestly, in Sheba and in Taurus 1 he uses them quite good. In Taurus, it sounds more like a cool synth. And in Sheba, the music is just fantastic ;)
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The Caveman Offline




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Posted: Feb. 12 2008, 11:54

I'm not saying i particuarly dislike QE2.On the contrary i love it.I just am not too keen on vocoders.I have a mental picture of QE2 being covered in vocoder but FMO has vocoder on all but 2 tracks.Sheba is a cool track though.And the title track is fantastic.I read in one of the discussions that someone couldn't see the nautical thing.Fog horns,sea shanty/hornpipe type themes.It's all there. ;)

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THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH.
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: Feb. 13 2008, 02:43

Even though the vocoder was flavor of the week in 1980 I still think Mike used in original ways. On those two albums it's more like a rhythmic device than a sound effect. I especially love the way it's used on Mirage (a great underrated track!;).

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Sweetpea Offline




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Posted: June 25 2008, 14:11

I am fond of "Taurus III", but it doesn't seem related to the others. Or am I missing the connection?

On "Taurus I", there's a section near the beginning that sounds kinda banjo-like. This puts me off slightly, probably because I associate banjos with hillbillies. It also reminds me of the theme from "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy".


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"I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty
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arron11196 Offline




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Posted: June 25 2008, 18:38

The only common theme I can find within each piece is a lark about. Seriously. Whilst Taurus I is very structured, you can hear Mike in the background singing it in another room  :p and then the whole mood changes, and again, and again...

Same with Taurus II. The only reason I'm not fond of T2 is because of that mass of almost improv... I like Mike's music for its structure and mathematics, as he'd say, and its mood. T2 just seems like a play about, and for me, that doesn't work.

Taurus III is also nice - but crazy in the sense that on the first listen you don't expect the chorus guitar strumms <LOUD>.


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Arron J Eagling

Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature.

(insert the last 5 mins of Crises here)
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: June 25 2008, 21:34

Quote (arron11196 @ June 25 2008, 18:38)
The only reason I'm not fond of T2 is because of that mass of almost improv... I like Mike's music for its structure and mathematics, as he'd say, and its mood. T2 just seems like a play about, and for me, that doesn't work.

Sacrilege! T2, along with TB2, is my all-time favourite MO work!
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: June 25 2008, 21:52

Quote (arron11196 @ June 25 2008, 18:38)
Same with Taurus II. The only reason I'm not fond of T2 is because of that mass of almost improv... I like Mike's music for its structure and mathematics, as he'd say, and its mood. T2 just seems like a play about, and for me, that doesn't work.I agr

I agree with that. And what's more: Taurus II at times seems like a "play about", and in all other times, it sounds like a "not play at all". There are those long stretches of things hanging around, not accomplishing anything, or those empty sequences of notes that seem like they're going somewhere, but are more like stuck in a loop (I'm thinking, for example, of those lone guitar notes going up and down shortly before the "jig" part). It's really unusual that a piece like Taurus II, which captures Mike in an overall so good moment, should put me off like that; especially when the previous album was very good, and the following one is downright excellent. Sort of strange, really!

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nightspore Offline




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Posted: June 26 2008, 01:06

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ June 25 2008, 21:52)
And what's more: Taurus II at times seems like a "play about", and in all other times, it sounds like a "not play at all". There are those long stretches of things hanging around, not accomplishing anything, or those empty sequences of notes that seem like they're going somewhere, but are more like stuck in a loop (I'm thinking, for example, of those lone guitar notes going up and down shortly before the "jig" part). It's really unusual that a piece like Taurus II, which captures Mike in an overall so good moment, should put me off like that; especially when the previous album was very good, and the following one is downright excellent. Sort of strange, really!

The "not play" bits just serve to throw the outstanding moments into sharper relief, make them more obvious. Byron was once criticised for the dull patches in his long poems, to which he replied "The night cannot be all stars". It's the same here.

I'm surprised that you have a higher opinion of Crises. The opening minutes of "Crises" itself are wonderful, connoting imminent loss before the "crisis bell" indeed sounds, ending everything (has anyone ever counted how many of Mike's albums don't contain bells?); and there are other effective bits, like the strange, other-worldly "Watcher and the Tower" mantra - but, apart from "Moonlight Shadow", the songs are very, very ordinary: melodically unmemorable and with awkward lyrics. Also, "Foreign Affair" is tediously repetitious, while the less said about Jon Anderson's vocals on "In High Places" the better!
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: June 26 2008, 11:03

I can't stand Foreign Affair. Okay, actually, I can stand about 30% of it before it goes berserk and repeats the first verse six times in a row (I could never, ever, ever understand that). But just like Crises has Foreign Affair, Five Miles Out has Taurus II.

Back in the day, I used to find the first 20 minutes of the track completely worthless, but the final 4 minutes were nice and listenable and all. Nowadays, I realise that the final 4 minutes are, just like the whole rest of the track, based on a melody worse than anything Mike could have come up with while sleeping in a crowded bus in a particularly stressful day: "Dun dun dun dun! Dun, dun, dun dun dun dun!, rinse and repeat".

Now, the title track of Crises is something else entirely. I understand the need of contrast in music, and that track exemplifies what I believe in: instead of "doing nothing" for a while to let the "doing something" moments sink in, every part has something going on which complements what came before it and what comes after. There isn't a single moment, not even a fraction of a second that isn't based on a melody, on an underlying theme, and that doesn't have a direction.

By the way, I never cared much for the lyrics in Mike's songs, other than some interesting cuts like Family Man. Also, I take Jon Anderson's vocals on In High Places over those atrocious vocals on Hostage any time of the day! (or maybe I'm setting my standards a bit too low there?)


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: June 26 2008, 21:07

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ June 26 2008, 11:03)
Back in the day, I used to find the first 20 minutes of the track completely worthless, but the final 4 minutes were nice and listenable and all. Nowadays, I realise that the final 4 minutes are, just like the whole rest of the track, based on a melody worse than anything Mike could have come up with while sleeping in a crowded bus in a particularly stressful day: "Dun dun dun dun! Dun, dun, dun dun dun dun!, rinse and repeat".

Now, the title track of Crises is something else entirely. I understand the need of contrast in music, and that track exemplifies what I believe in: instead of "doing nothing" for a while to let the "doing something" moments sink in, every part has something going on which complements what came after it and what comes before. There isn't a single moment, not even a fraction of a second that isn't based on a melody, on an underlying theme, and that doesn't have a direction.

By the way, I never cared much for the lyrics in Mike's songs, other than some interesting cuts like Family Man. Also, I take Jon Anderson's vocals on In High Places over those atrocious vocals on Hostage any time of the day! (or maybe I'm setting my standards a bit too low there?)

The trouble is, these comments really say nothing more than that you don't like Taurus 2. Unless you're able to be more precise - exhibit the kind of objectivity that seems to be present when you set out to create an effect in your own music - the only way anyone else will be able to respond is say either "I agree" or "I disagree". I don't know what you mean by "listenable". I don't know what you mean by "worse". In the terms of academic music theory, virtually every melody you're likely to come across in pop music will be some pentatonic cliche and considered to be beneath contempt; that's why most "classical" music these days sounds like the noisy bits from Amarok.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: June 26 2008, 21:36

It has always been rather troublesome for me to be objective with someone else's music because, no matter how rigorous and precise I try to me, someone else will always disagree. Also, when I'm talking about my own music, I can be as objective as I want to be because... well, I made it. :) But, well, I'll try.

Okay, so "listenable" is quite an hyperbole there because there's nothing on the track that I can't listen to; but it gets close on the "disco chanting" part: that vocal melody sounds like something straight out of some communist propaganda film, and the "disco" rhythm does little to help. But that's the only positively bad thing I can name in the song. Other than that, Mike seems to stick too much to those circular melodies that sound downright banal and childish next to most of what he had done until then; that opening theme is just going up and down on, what, four notes, and it's quite amazing that he turned it into something quite powerful in the middle of Five Miles Out. The track has those meandering, aimless parts I have talked about before, and some more consistent bits scattered over the track without anything really tying them together.

The problem is that there's still too much personal taste involved in defining what sounds nice and what doesn't, but to but it bluntly, when I run through the track in my head, there's nothing in it that "sticks", nothing that I look forwards to. So, even if someone made me change my mind about what I said on the paragraph above, I'd still dislike the piece. My tastes are stubborn, yes.


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: June 27 2008, 04:38

Quote (nightspore @ June 27 2008, 02:07)
The trouble is, these comments really say nothing more than that you don't like Taurus 2. Unless you're able to be more precise - exhibit the kind of objectivity that seems to be present when you set out to create an effect in your own music - the only way anyone else will be able to respond is say either "I agree" or "I disagree".

Looking back at Sir M's post, I must say that I find his centre paragraph in particular is highly intelligible, and I understand very well what he's saying about Crises - and therefore, by implication, Foreign Affair (because of the comparison he's drawing). He's communicated how he experiences the music quite effectively, and to single out the words 'listenable' and 'worse' for criticism is to be unfair to the main thrust of his post, I think, which repays careful reading.

Also, I'm uneasy about the undue pressure it would put on all of us, to require us to weigh each of our words so carefully. This is a public forum, not an academic seminar, and often posts are written in a flurry of thought squeezed in between doing other, more pressing things. If someone comes on here and says no more than that they listened to Amarok last night with the lights out and it was just bloomin' marvellous, then they have every right to say that, and this is a good place to say it. I, for one, will enjoy their moment of shared enthusiasm, however imprecise the term "bloomin' marvellous" may be.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: June 27 2008, 09:21

Quote (Alan D @ June 27 2008, 04:38)
Looking back at Sir M's post, I must say that I find his centre paragraph in particular is highly intelligible, and I understand very well what he's saying about Crises - and therefore, by implication, Foreign Affair (because of the comparison he's drawing). He's communicated how he experiences the music quite effectively, and to single out the words 'listenable' and 'worse' for criticism is to be unfair to the main thrust of his post, I think, which repays careful reading.

Also, I'm uneasy about the undue pressure it would put on all of us, to require us to weigh each of our words so carefully. This is a public forum, not an academic seminar, and often posts are written in a flurry of thought squeezed in between doing other, more pressing things. If someone comes on here and says no more than that they listened to Amarok last night with the lights out and it was just bloomin' marvellous, then they have every right to say that, and this is a good place to say it. I, for one, will enjoy their moment of shared enthusiasm, however imprecise the term "bloomin' marvellous" may be.

Oh, I think we can let Sir M fight his own battles, Alan. Fairly obviously, his point wasn't apparent to me (beyond the fact that he simply didn't like it); otherwise I wouldn't have drawn attention to it.

Yes, of course people have the right to say that "Amarok" is blooming marvellous. But isn't it nice sometimes really to investigate the music on a different level, really to see what's there, to be as precise as we can (and, yes, bring in the tools of academic if we want to)? If people had been content simply to say, on the recent Amarok discussion, "it's unlistenable", I think you'd have been rather unsatisfied, because you were desparately seeking new points of entry into the work.

I note a general change in your tone since I criticized Tres Lunas fairly intensely. I apologize for that; no one likes to have something to which one is greatly attached savaged. But equally, if you really like the work nothing I say is going to make you stop liking it, so why worry?
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: June 27 2008, 13:34

Quote (nightspore @ June 27 2008, 14:21)
Oh, I think we can let Sir M fight his own battles, Alan.

He most certainly can (though I wasn't aware this was a battle, and heartily hope it isn't), and I wasn't trying to defend him. I wanted to explain that although you picked up a couple of loosely used and subjective words that he'd used (as do we all, frequently), he'd actually made a well-articulated point which I thought you'd missed, and that it was worth reading again to check it out.

Quote
But isn't it nice sometimes really to investigate the music on a different level, really to see what's there, to be as precise as we can (and, yes, bring in the tools of academic if we want to)?

Of course it is, and yes let's have as many varied approaches as possible. If you want to write posts analysing Mike Oldfield's music in relation to serialism or something, then I'll cheer you on from the sidelines. But it would be your choice to adopt a particular approach of that sort, and others wouldn't necessarily want to join in with that approach. (For an example, see my old thread on English music, which is little more than a personal blog and of interest to no one but me!! )

Quote
I note a general change in your tone since I criticized Tres Lunas fairly intensely.

Gosh, Daniel, I hope I wouldn't be so petty! (Sir M has trashed so many of my Oldfieldian sacred cows that I ought to be used to it by now.) You might be picking up a certain frustration because I think we don't communicate with each other very well, but there's no hostility (I'm particularly unlikely to want to alienate a fellow MVR enthusiast, after all).
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Bassman Offline




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Posted: June 27 2008, 15:04

Damn, that Oldfield dude sure can write some snappy tunes!

:laugh:
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