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nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 18 2008, 10:18 Quote (Alan D @ April 18 2008, 05:25) I take your point about Dylan, too. Despite being a child of the 60s, I couldn't bear Dylan for years and years. Then one day about 1999, I walked into a CD fair, and 'Masters of War' was being played - but it was like no version I'd ever heard before, being sung by what seemed to be a voice from some far-off place, broken but deeply affected by time and experience. It turned out it was a 1998 live bootleg recording. I bought it then and there, and fell headlong into Dylan's box (just in time for his magnificent tour of the UK in 2000, thankfully). Yet all those years in between I hadn't been able to summon any interest. So we can never know what's round the corner. I suspect I'll be putting on Amarok (and gritting my teeth in anticipation) for a long while yet, because the rewards, when you finally get into one of those boxes (if you have reason to think it could be a good one), can be so great. We may have to agree to disagree about Dylan, Alan. I accept that many of his lyrics stand as poetry - and I think it's his lyrics that posterity will mainly remember. In all of the songs of his I know - and that's most of them; my brother is a Dylan maniac - there's a great disparity (an irony, really) between the complexity of the words and the simplicity of the music. (I should own here that I'm from a classical background, where it's expected that the music and the words should bounce off each other). Mike makes a similar mistake in his setting of Hiawatha: there's nothing in the music to reflect what's going on in the words. I didn't read early enough in the thread to read what you were saying about Amarok. I can understand your view: noise is noise, irrespective of whether the pieces between are typically melodic Oldfield, which, of course, they are. I think many like the sheer derring-do of putting noise on a music album, and I can understand that too. Try listening to Stockhausen's "Sirius" (which is a kind of electronic science fiction opera) and even the most extreme of Mike's musique concrete will sound quite melodic! Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 18 2008, 12:49 Quote (nightspore @ April 18 2008, 14:18) I accept that many of his lyrics stand as poetry - and I think it's his lyrics that posterity will mainly remember. I'm not trying to persuade you about Dylan in particular - just observing that the unexpected can and does happen, particularly if you're caught unawares. For about thirty years I would have agreed with the statement you made (the one I've quoted above), and would have laughed if anyone had seriously suggested I might change my view. Then I fell into the box, and understood for the first time what he was doing with that voice. I guess what I really need is one day to walk into a room with one of the horriblest bits of Amarok playing, fail to recognise it (OK, not likely, but it's my imagination I'm tinkering with here), and find myself suddenly attracted to it. I'll pass on the Stockhausen though! I have enough trouble with someone as innocuous as Bax. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 18 2008, 21:46 Have you considered downloading a free music editor from the Web? It would seem a pity to miss out on the many melodious parts of Amarok; you could easily edit yourself a copy you find listenable. There are some composers/compositions that I find far less listenable than Stockhausen. My own favourite bete noir is Elgar's "Dream of Gerontius", which bores the pants off me. "Sirius" is about a kind of electronic battle between aliens who seem to be partly identified with the seasons and partly identified with signs of the zodiac. It's the most listenable work of his I know, although "Hymnen", which, I believe, invented sampling way back in 1966, is fun too - although various countries were annoyed at having their national anthems sampled! Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 19 2008, 00:50 Quote (nightspore @ April 19 2008, 01:46) Have you considered downloading a free music editor from the Web? Well, I have Audacity, which would do the job - but if I were to do that, I'd just be confirming myself in my own prejudices, don't you think? So any chance I might have of coming to terms with the piece as a whole would be lost. Quote My own favourite bete noir is Elgar's "Dream of Gerontius", which bores the pants off me. Funny you should say that, because there's another excellent example of the 'box' analogy. Despite being passionate about Elgar's music from the age of 16, I never could enjoy his vocal works, and in particular I could not understand at all why The Dream of Gerontius was so highly regarded. It seemed, as you say, a bore, and a depressing one too. Last year, after a gap of many, many years, and after making a breakthrough into some of Elgar's less-well-known vocal work like The Spirit of England, I decided to give Gerontius another go. Transformation! Somehow, in the years between, and after listening to a lot of Wagner and a lot more Elgar, I'd slipped into the Gerontius 'box' without knowing how or why (despite being mildly repelled by the subject matter). This is exactly what I'm driving at in these posts. In my experience it's a mistake ever to close the lid of these boxes completely, no matter how unpromising they may seem. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 19 2008, 02:19 Ha ha - maybe I'll have to give the dreaded Gerontius another listen! Part of the problem is that with a great deal of "classical" music the pleasure is intellectual: you need to know all the intricacies of, for example, sonata form in order to get the most out of a work. Of course, the greatest composers knew how to write so that there is the ordinary kind of enjoyment - not just intellectual - as well. Back to top

nightspore Group: Members Posts: 4761 Joined: Mar. 2008 Posted: April 19 2008, 02:28 Quote (Alan D @ April 19 2008, 00:50) Quote (nightspore @ April 19 2008, 01:46) Have you considered downloading a free music editor from the Web? Well, I have Audacity, which would do the job - but if I were to do that, I'd just be confirming myself in my own prejudices, don't you think? So any chance I might have of coming to terms with the piece as a whole would be lost. Sorry, I didn't notice this earlier part of your post. Well, I have my prejudices too, but I'm happy to live with them. I know what you mean about coming to terms with the work as a whole, though. Without wishing to wade into the murky waters of artistic intention, I'm just wondering how seriously Mike intended the "noise" sections of Amorok to be taken. He comes across as a rather modest, unpretentious man; my guess is that he wanted to produce something that would annoy Richard Branson but which his fans would still like. Most of the really strident noise is in the first few moments: it's a kind of "warning - keep out!" sign addressed to "cloth-eared nincompoops"; the rest of the noise is simply Mike going about his daily business: answering the phone, cleaning his teeth, etc. The initial noises say "I am a rock - get by me if you can"; the rest of the noises say "And this is what I do". Just my opinion. Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: April 19 2008, 05:10 Quote (nightspore @ April 19 2008, 06:19) Part of the problem is that with a great deal of "classical" music the pleasure is intellectual: you need to know all the intricacies of, for example, sonata form in order to get the most out of a work. I've only ever known the barest rudiments of those intellectual aspects of music (which I'd like to change one day, along with a million other things), so that wasn't the reason. It was far more intuitive - something had just clicked. I suspect listening to some of it on headphones one sunny day among the flowers in Elgar's garden had something to do with it, too. Quote I have my prejudices too, but I'm happy to live with them Oh, so am I most of the time. Otherwise life becomes an endless struggle. Well, more of an endless struggle, rather. But an enormous number of my most enriching artistic experiences have come about as a result of continuing despite my prejudices, so even in the teeth of frustration I have to keep reminding myself that this is the way to grow.... Concerning Amarok - it's the fragmentation that troubles me, as much as the noises: the amazing richness of musical ideas that seem to be stifled before they can be properly enjoyed. But generally, your theory about it seems as good as any other. Back to top

Mourton Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 06 2008, 08:11 I first heard an excerpt of Amarok on Elements, a collection of Mike Oldfield tracks, and didn't like it, until listening to it a few times. I wanted to see how it ended though, since I did begin to like it; I found the album in the shops, brought it home and played it front to back and thought it was great! It reminds me of a chaotic mind, since everything is so different throughout the course of the track. When I tried to show it to someone else, however (father), he admitted an instant dislike to it, probably because the striking chords near the beginning almost gave him a heart attack... Back to top

Bassman Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Feb. 2008 Posted: June 06 2008, 11:08 The beginning bit (Fast Riff/Intro) is my FAVORITE.  It's like a letter of intent that says, "Don't try drifting off to this one... or you'll get a big surprise...".  Second fave would be the 4 minutes of "Fast Waltz to Mandolin".  Then I guess all of "Africa III".  Those three bits are what I always want to be put on my imaginary box set (and sticking "Branches" in the middle of them, just for the hell of it). Back to top

The Caveman Group: Members Posts: 2178 Joined: Jan. 2008 Posted: June 06 2008, 12:44 I love the albums but i can see where Moonchildhippy gets her idea about it sounding like Mike throwing his toys out the pram.Personally i like twists like this.If you listen to Mike's work with Kevin Ayres,in particular There Is Loving...Among Us...There is Loving it goes mad for a bit in the middle with wierd tape loops and random sounds (way before sampling existed)before Mike's fat fuzzy bass brings it back around to the song,it's remnicent of Amarok (or vice versa) in it's randomness.Even TB has it's mad moments (just before the first big guitar solo on side one. Amarok is so varied and rich in ideas.It's a definate sit down and listen album and not one to drop of to sleep to unless you are a very very heavy sleeper or don't mind being woken by huge brass stabs.I know Mike himself is very fond of it. All told i adore this album and have since i first heard it on xmas day 1990 (a wee 16 year old with a big grin liker a kid in a sweet shop). -------------- THE COMING OF THE GREAT WHITE HANDKERCHEIF IS NIGH. Back to top

Tati The Sentinel Group: Members Posts: 3360 Joined: Feb. 2002 Posted: June 06 2008, 17:24 Amarok is so addictive...you can't live without it. -------------- "But it's always the outsider, the black sheep, that becomes the blockbuster." - Mike Oldfield, 2014 "I remember feeling that I'd been judged unfairly and that I was going to prove them wrong." - Peter Davison, 2011 Back to top

Sweetpea Group: Members Posts: 1476 Joined: April 2007 Posted: June 08 2008, 01:32 Quote (Mourton @ June 06 2008, 08:11) I first heard an excerpt of Amarok on Elements, a collection of Mike Oldfield tracks, and didn't like it, until listening to it a few times. I was also first exposed to "Amarok" via the Elements excerpt, and I didn't care for it. Unlike you, however, I didn't really give it a chance. It was years later when I tried it again. It's nice to have you, here, Mourton. Welcome to the board. -------------- "I'm no physicist, but technically couldn't Mike both be with the horse and be flying through space at the same time? (On account of the earth's orbit around the Sun and all that). So it seems he never had to make the choice after all. I bet he's kicking himself now." - clotty Back to top

Mourton Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: June 2008 Posted: June 09 2008, 06:41 Thank you for the welcome, Sweetpea.   I must agree, Bassman, that Waltz part is truly fantastic; the mind boggles concerning how he played the instrument so rapidly. Back to top

ettlz Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: April 2007 Posted: June 11 2008, 17:34 Keep an eye on your Amarok CD. I say this because mine has taken to spontaneously playing itself. It's so odd to hear music coming from a jewel case like that. Back to top

smillsoid Group: Members Posts: 548 Joined: Dec. 2008 Posted: April 10 2009, 14:57 It's one of the few pieces of music powerful enough to bring me back from the edge of suicide.  Seriously. -------------- http://www.reverbnation.com/simonjmills Back to top

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