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Topic: disc, fake or genuine< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
afghan Offline




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Posted: Jan. 27 2005, 07:40

Posting this hear becauce i think this is the place to get the answer to my question,to start at the begining,before when i posted on this site i did so through my tv set becauce i did not have a computer thus access to this site and many othors was very limited , now i have a computer it has opened a whole new world ,looking and hearing things on this site and others i did not know existed or to go about doing them.Now to my question,i know you can copy discs and download on to them ,so how do you know when a disc is genuine,back to the topic millenium bell ,all i want to know is the copy i have genuine and what should i look for on it,the reason i ask this is becauce the cd i have is supposed to be very rare.I will describe it the best i can ,its called on front cover millenium bells not bell,this looks just like an ordinary bit of card ,plain white with black writing ,diff track listing with obviously excalibar,every track on the disc is slightly diff,the disc it self is gold coloured and has a date 18/05/99 and purple lettering which says apogee electronics,there is also ref to Big Life Management,if you can copy discs how do you know this is the real thing as i know i was listening to it weeks before its release but no one else does . I am not planing to sell it or anything ,i would just like to know how do you tell genuine from copy and is there a way of doing this. :)

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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Jan. 27 2005, 18:00

Look at the bottom (non-label) side. If it has no colour other than silver (or gold, in your case), it's genuine. If it's light green or blue, it's a copy. :) AFAIK genuine CDs have a protective layer over them, which makes them appear silver. People who burn CDs don't (normally) put anything on them. :)

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olracUK Offline




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Posted: Jan. 27 2005, 19:58

In your case i would be a bit suspiciious. I could download the raer pre-release stuff from the net, even find artwork to print.

Bottom line is that the MB album did not have excalibur, nor the track which later appeared in MVR, on the official release, so it has to be a boot/dodgy copy. "rare" might be used for an offical release pulled from production such as "sally".

realistically though, you pay a price for something because you want it. The fact that nothing goes to the original artist/composer is something for your personal conscience. I can't comment, because those in glass houses should not thow stones.


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afghan Offline




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Posted: Jan. 28 2005, 08:26

thats great thanks,it is just gold ugo and it was supposed to have come from a musicion who worked on the album.But i suppose olracuk is right its only worth and as rare as much as someone is willing to pay.Idid see somewhere on a site a similar disc been sold for 600 which i prosume to be dollars or euros,Maybe the only way to tell is to try and sell it,but i dont think i would like to do that. :)

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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Jan. 28 2005, 11:12

Apogee make CDR blanks (amongst other things). The colour isn't a reliable way of telling, as there are now CDRs which look virtually the same in colour as pressed CDs (the silver appearance of CDs is, by the way, because they're pressed from a thin piece of metal - aluminium when they're silver, gold in the case of audiophile gold ones. That's stuck to a polycarbonate disc, which is on the playing side, and covered with a protective lacquer on the label side - CDRs also have the protective lacquer layer, if they didn't, the data would just get worn away and you'd be left with a clear disc. CDRs have an extra layer of dye over the reflective layer which allows them to be written - rather than making holes in the reflective layer, as with pressed CDs, the CD writer just makes dark patches in the dye).

Apogee discs are really only used by professionals (of course, not exclusively - anyone can buy them, but you won't find them in any old supermarket or electronics store, only in pro media suppliers). That would give more credibility to any claims that it might be a demo copy, although only slightly more (like I said, anyone could buy them - it just makes it a little less suspicious than if it was, say, Dixons' own brand or something like that! ). As it's a CDR, however, there's no real way of telling whether it was an original CDR acetate/demo or a duplicate - they'd both look exactly the same. Promos, acetates and demos do all tend to come basic photocopied booklets and the like, so it wouldn't be hard to make a fake one...
It depends where you got it from, really. If you had it before the album was released, then it's unlikely it was created from tracks downloaded from the internet, as the demo versions really only became readily available a year or so after the album came out. That's not to say that someone didn't have them beforehand, but I've not heard of it.
If it was given to you, rather than sold for a high price, it's more likely genuine - people who go to the trouble of making fakes tend to do it to get money (though not always, some might do it to trick people...but I'm not sure they'd create a fake acetate before the album was released, using tracks from the actual demo - someone doing it as a trick would be more likely to put one together with Mike soundalike tracks or something like that).

The value of 600 could have been Rainer Münz's discography site, where he lists a slightly later acetate as being worth 600DM (somewhere around 300 €).
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afghan Offline




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Posted: Jan. 28 2005, 12:08

Thankyou Korgscrew that makes a lot of scence,i did have it a good while befors the album was released and sent a copy to dark star this was on tape as then i did not have the facilities to copy the disc.You dont run into these type of things with vynil. :)

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TubularBelle Offline




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Posted: Jan. 29 2005, 02:54

Be careful Afghan because people will now tell it is worthless so they can buy it off you very cheaply, sounds like a gem to me regardless of it's monetary worth. I mean, it's worthless!!

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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Jan. 29 2005, 03:56

One question afghan, where did you get this CD from? I'm assuming that you didn't buy it from any shop, so I'm interested to know who you got it from, and where that person got it from in the first place.

Quote (olracUK @ Jan. 27 2005, 07:58)
realistically though, you pay a price for something because you want it.The fact that nothing goes to the original artist/composer is something for your personal conscience.


In my opinion that doesn't count here because, simply, you can't pay for it. There is no way you can pay Mike or Warner for Excalibur, either to download or on CD, so is downloading it really wrong? But that's another discussion.


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afghan Offline




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Posted: Jan. 29 2005, 09:18

Well TB thats the point i was trying to say how could you sell a disc like this unless you actualy see it and know what you are looking at,now i did buy it and you might say i bought it unseen,well all i can say in my defence is ,a few years ago i would of bought anything connected with mike,and i have a room in my house to prove it.There is no doubt in my mind it is the real thing i was just hopeing that there was a way of telling by just looking.As far as where i got it ,all i can say it was a very well known record dealers,who at the time of sale asked me not to reveal where i got it,maybe it will be safe to do so in another 44 years (only kidding). :D

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olracUK Offline




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Posted: Jan. 30 2005, 06:25

To sum up then, from Korg's technical words, and from the purchase source, it does look more than likely that this is a genuine pre-release cd.

It is very difficult to prove the genuine from a copy, and it will be down to the buyer to make thier best judgment, taking into account any further evidence. Unless the cd had come with a stamp saying "property of warners" or a handwritten note from Mike, there will be a small element of doubt.

And, yes, there is nothing to pay the artiste with these pre release stuff. Personally, if I had 300 euro's spare, I'd snap it up if it was for sale.

As for whether it is wrong to download, well my philosophy would be it's fine unless the artist specifically said they weren't happy about it.


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