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MusicallyInspired Group: Musicians Posts: 1445 Joined: June 2001 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 03:58 Wow. Lots of opinions. Lots of points of view I never even considered. Here's mine. I like Light & Shade. I don't dislike it and I don't really love....but I suspect I lean more towards 'love' than I do 'dislike'. Tracks like Angelique, Our Father, Surfing, and Ringscape really stand out to me. It does sound simpler than anything he's done in the past, but I don't think he's lost it. He does it now for the feeling and emotion and not so much the complexit. he's said himself he used to try to write things that were impressive and he no longer sees the need and just writes what is needed. to focus on the feeling and emotion. I think he's succeeded to a degree, but what I don't think he realises is that there is much feeling and emotion in complexity, but it's probably just because he's bored with that now and is trying simpler things...my belief is that he'll come around after getting bored with this stuff and do something ELSE unexpected, he's already gone into dance/trance/techno/etc. There are times when I wonder if he is the genius I thought he was and if his ability to compose or write the complexity he used to write had diminished over the years (but still has the ability to produce something beautiful, like his previous works), but usually something fairly recent that he's done convinces me otherwise. And it's happened again with L&S. I liked a few of the tracks (named above) but they weren't absolutely stunningly amazing like some tracks on TSODE or Incantations or something, but then he comes up with this Cook's Tune which is absolutely wonderful. Nice theme of acoustic guitar and mandolin playing with his wonderful electric PRS sound folk tune mixed with the Magellan drum loop and some other electronic sounds that make for a very nice pre-1992 Oldfield tune in my eyes. That immediately turned me back to the opinion that he hasn't lost one thing. He's just lost himself in experimentation, which is what I loved about his style in the first place; He wasn't afraid to try new things. Some things people liked, some they didn't. I admire that. That's what I loved about his music alongside the emotion and feeling, and I still sense that now. I most gladly have still yet to prove myself wrong and I hope I never do! -------------- BrandonBlume.com "The beauty in life is in the embracing of the variety of things. If all the world was blue there would be no colour blue." Back to top

Baggiesfaninessex Group: Members Posts: 682 Joined: Mar. 2002 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 04:22 I like L&S but with so much music at my disposal, it is now gathering dust in the glove compartment of the car. I am playing Taurus II from FMO as I type and although this isn't my favourite long piece by Mike, it still manages to make the hairs stand up on the back of my neck; something L&S has not done and I doubt ever will do. -------------- “A dog is not intelligent. Never trust an animal that's surprised by its own farts.” - Frank Skinner Back to top

magon Group: Members Posts: 2 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 04:37 Wake up MIKE!!!!!!!!!! Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 05:15 Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 22 2005, 08:17) So Alan, how do you deal with it? Because at the moment, I'm musically seriously stuck between a rock and a hardplace. I used to percieve mike as an asbolute genius, to have created some of the truly beautiful music that I have of his, but now I'm just wondering whether he was lucky. Interesting question arron! First: although I used to share your concept of 'absolute genius' a long time ago, I don't, now. I don't think there's a single artist in any field whose output has been uniformly great. Take Wordsworth, who wrote some of the most profoundly moving poems in the English language - and also some of the most contrived and banal. Take Blake, who painted some of the most astounding visions in the history of British art, and also some that are laughably bad. Mike is no exception to this. His music has always been experimental. Sometimes he produces music of astonishing beauty and brilliance; sometimes it falls short. But that's the essential nature of experiment. Sometimes experiments give you the results you want, but sometimes they fail - otherwise they aren't experiments. Mike's successes aren't just happy accidents. They're works of genius as you've always believed them to be. But the 'genius' aspect is fickle and unpredictable for any artist. That's why, when we look at the work of an artist retrospectively, we don't base our overall assessment on his 'worst' work, or even on some kind of 'average'. We base it on his best work. Wordsworth is a great poet because he wrote some profoundly beautiful and true poems that no other human being could have written. The rubbish doesn't count. Mike Oldfield is a great musician because he's made albums of breathtaking quality that no other human being could have made. Oddly enough, my response to L&S is very similar to my response to Amarok - you know, that 'Mike, how could you?!' kind of response. I still don't understand how such a fine musician could create the travesty that is Amarok; and in the same way, I don't understand how he could create something so clinical as L&S. Nothing has really changed, except the nature of the change. Back to top

Tansy Group: Members Posts: 416 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 05:30 I love the L+S album of course it's not for me to say that others should/should not appreciate,only for those who haven't perhaps given it time,please do this as it is very different and isn't Ommadawn or like some other M.O works so for me,best not to even try to compere but accept it for what it is. A new chapter in his book of music - and wonder how the next chapter will "read'. A long time ago,I would have been the first person to shout a big NO to too many synth effects,being one who has a passion for hearing real musical instruments played .Still do but very glad to have opened my mind toward other sounds in music. With tracks such as Tears Of An Angel(fabulous),Our Father,Angelique,Surfing,Ringscape,and the oh so brilliant IMO Sunset(it lifts my heart & soul) to highlight a few - I'm more than happy to listen to L+S many times.As for the added bonus of vocoloid/cantor,even though these aren't an entirely new thing,think they work so well on this album and very much like "robotic sounds" anyway. Heard from a M.O interview that he had re done the H.Chorus with them but,it hadn't been appreciated - how I'd love to hear that one!   Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 06:26 I have to agree with Alan and disagree with arron11196: no matter how much I may dislike some of the tracks on Shade, this will never lower my rating of Mike's career as a whole. He has made more music that I love than any other artist, including my favourite album of all, and nothing can take that away. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 06:39 Well, I don't mean to say that I'll never listen to him again, and I'm certainly not downputting his career - I just don't know what to think at the moment. I guess the perception of the artist for me has an influence of my perception of his works - is that wrong? This is what I'm struggling with I think. -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

The Watcher Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 06:48 I am a long time fan and have followed along with him since I first heard his music on the Exorcist soundtrack. I have two categories for music, Mike's and everyone else’s. I think that as a musician matures they can become a little too self critical and start to nitpick their earlier stuff. Tubular Bells 2003 is a perfect example of this. I have found that the innovations in his music have moved from complexity, layers, and general concentration on the performance side of things to a gradual shift to the production side. I also find that I get a different experience when I listen to his music wearing headphones and just sitting in the dark or drifting off to sleep so as not to be distracted by anything else. Having listened to the Shade disc about 6 times, I marvel at the way the sounds were recorded, how well they pan across the stereo spectrum and in general how everything sounds so hmmmmm, perfect. There are 2 "moments" on the album for me. The first is the operatic singing on the second (or third?) song. And the second is the "flanged bit" towards the end of Surfing. Aside from those few moments I tend to agree with the banalities comment. The few guitar bits all sound recycled, the choruses have been reused on more than a few albums Perhaps I will find more, but I doubt it. I truly detest dance music and couldn't care less how to categorize the various strains of it, it’s all **** to me. I have learned to be patient with Mike in the past and been rewarded for repeated listening but for me this album is definitely sitting in the Guitars, Heavens Open, Tres Lunas, Millenium Bell, Voyager category. Back to top

Legend Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: Oct. 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 06:55 I have mixed feelings about L+S. I think it´s because of maybe too much "either/or": There are som very high highs (for me: Blackbird, First steps, TOAA) and some very low lows (The Gate, Slipstream, Romance). I hate this tehno/dance/trance-stuff or whatever you may call it...whish He will never ever play with these beats again!! Take away 3-5 tracks an there you go! - a very nice album with no fillers!! Back to top

raven4x4x Group: Members Posts: 1535 Joined: Jan. 2002 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 07:11 Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 22 2005, 19:39) I guess the perception of the artist for me has an influence of my perception of his works - is that wrong? Well, what is 'right' or 'wrong' depends on the person, but I would say that if your opinion of one album makes you think less of his previous albums, I don't think that is right. I would suggest that the best way to think of it is:Mike, who has made a lot of music that you love, has this time made an album you can't stand (or whatever). That's how I would think of it. -------------- Thank-you for helping us help you help us all. Back to top

Marky Group: Members Posts: 390 Joined: Sep. 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 07:18 I like to look at it this way. Mr Mike Oldfield was a bassist in a small non-commercial group. He could have stayed that way and been a session musician. If Tubular Bells had never found an outlet, he may have stayed a bassist or composed more mainstream music (like he has in any event) except forced to do so sooner. If Tubular Bells had been released but unsuccessfully, he might also have tried other things sooner or simply become a backwater, undiscovered artist without his commercial interludes. Many of us would never have heard of him at all.  As it is, he still has relatively little integration with the wider music fraternity and as far as I know hasn't taken, say, piano lessons. He retains artistic integrity in the sense that he composes what he likes for himself and doesn't compromise very much. He does get enthusiastic about a style and then later get bored and drop it. His traditional tunes in the 70s, for example, his flirtation with songs in the mid eighties, and his interest now in shorter, less organic sounds may be another trend that is outlived. But I find it helpful always to wonder at the fact that really, all this music, Ommadawn to Earth Moving in style, Light and Shade lately, is the product of a young boy with an acoustic guitar who was just a bassist and has taught himself most of what he knows. The word genius doesn't apply to Mike usually – it applies to some of his work - we can argue over which bits are genius and about what we like in his work, but it is hard to conceive of Ommadawn, Tubular Bells and Amarok (perhaps others) as pieces that could ever have existed without him. There is a strong individuality to much of his output, and his identity is there even when his music takes on a very conventional style. And some of his albums will inevitably be weaker than others, especially so because his career is now a long one. He has usually been quite a high output artist, even if this was partly pressure to leave Virgin. You can't spend your life composing at top intensity and being inspired to the max. There are different moods and emotions behind phases of our lives - our own work varies even if we are not artistic. As for 'losing it', it seems when I read the posts here, that so many prefer different aspects of his music that each phase and work brings with it new fans. Even some of my least favourite works are for some his best. His longer term fans should regard their distaste for anything new he does as a sign that he retains his artistic integrity (he's prepared to upset us, and that means he'll keep experimenting) and the stuff we feel so-so about is a doorway to other newer fans whose tastes differ. We should celebrate his capacity to upset some of his fans each time he releases an album and produce such a sparky debate. Few musicians can do that - it tells you the breadth of interests and tastes that we have as fans. In a way, it is a compliment to him and to us that we can be upset like this. The only compliment we can pay him, truly, is to really listen to his music and always give it a chance, especially if we are not at first impressed. So never give up if he’s going somewhere you think you don’t like. He’ll change direction and style again. And a different set of people will complain about it! Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 09:39 Quote (raven4x4x @ Oct. 22 2005, 07:11) Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 22 2005, 19:39) I guess the perception of the artist for me has an influence of my perception of his works - is that wrong? Well, what is 'right' or 'wrong' depends on the person, but I would say that if your opinion of one album makes you think less of his previous albums, I don't think that is right. I would suggest that the best way to think of it is:Mike, who has made a lot of music that you love, has this time made an album you can't stand (or whatever). That's how I would think of it. Well, I'm not even sure that this really is the case. I just don't know at the moment. I can't say. All I know is that there is some bad association - perhaps after a few months I'll be able to mentally segregate L+S into the same category as Islands. Let's hope so, and then instead of worrying about the potential loss of my biggest passion, I'll just get on with it.   -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

The Bell(end) Group: Members Posts: 1051 Joined: July 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 09:47 Quote (raven4x4x @ Oct. 22 2005, 11:26) no matter how much I may dislike some of the tracks on Shade, this will never lower my rating of Mike's career as a whole. Of course! If people based their opinion of him with each new album we wouldn't be here. For example, if everyone decided that Mike couldn't create any good music anymore when they bought Earth Moving, they would have missed out on Amarok! This is why loyal fans are important, if Keane's next album is awful, no-one will buy the hypothetical third album because their music is mainstream, and the mainstream IS a stream, sheep moving from one artist to another to find temporary preferences. So keep your faith in Mike everyone, his next album might be more to your tastes! I however think this to be a great album   -------------- When the night's on fi-ya, do you need love's arms to hold yew? :D Back to top

RICHARDGORMLIE Group: Members Posts: 98 Joined: Nov. 2004 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 10:16 i think mike should return to the style of tubular bells 2 or songs of the distant earth.  i would also like another guitars album.  i think light + shade is way better than tres lunas Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 10:39 Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 22 2005, 11:39) I guess the perception of the artist for me has an influence of my perception of his works - is that wrong? I know exactly what you mean, and it isn't wrong - but it's up to you how you determine your 'perception of the artist'. If he has to be infallible in your eyes, then no artist living or dead will ever live up to your expectations, including Mike. Stick with the work you know to be good and base your assessment on that. He was generous to you in producing that stunning music that you've loved. Why not be generous to him when he apparently fails? Remember, there has never been any great artist who didn't sometimes produce work that was less than his best - or even downright poor. Also, remember you can be sure of the goodness in music that you respond to positively, in a way that you can never be sure about music that you fail to enjoy. Next week you may suddenly get insight into the music that today you thought was bad. Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 10:55 Oh yes I completely agree Alan, on a mental level, of course I do, but the experience is disconnected from that. It's like it speaks to my subconscious, and I can't tell that what to do. Thank you for all of your assistance though, Alan, Marky and others. Perhaps through helping me you can also help yourself... let's hope so. -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 12:06 Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 22 2005, 15:55) Oh yes I completely agree Alan, on a mental level, of course I do, but the experience is disconnected from that. It's like it speaks to my subconscious, and I can't tell that what to do. A similar thing happened to me with Bob Dylan. Just one show, bad beyond belief, and ear-damagingly loud (I saw the evidence myself when I consulted an ear specialist some time afterwards) did so much harm that I couldn't bear to listen to his music any more for ages, and I still have problems related to that. No number of convincing arguments would ever had made any difference, after that experience. As you say, it's the subconscious aspect that it's hardest to cope with. But L&S isn't so bad that you can't recover, is it? Is it as bad as 'Blue Peter'? Or those appalling club mixes of 'Let There be Light'? Or any number of Mike's 80s pop songs? Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 13:43 Bits of L+S are brilliant. Bits of it make me wonder if I should really keep it in my collection, and just keep the first 30 years and finish there. I mean, and this is my personal opinion, trance music, ok, he's doing something new, experiementing, fine, fair enough, not my cup of tea, but ok. But to destroy Romance like that?? I mean that is, for me, like sheer musical disrespect. A beautiful spanish love song that completely rips the heart and soul out of the original, just to use it as a tune over a backbeat. Mike's not the only one either. Eva Cassidy did it with 'Fields of Gold'. I absolutely loved that song and still love Ten Summoner's (Sumners) Tales, but the version she did payed almost no respect to the original. I mean, yeah, so it's a completely different song, and it sounds good, and for all intensive purposes IS A GOOD song, but the fact that it's nothing like the original... to me... it's like stealing. Quicksilver and Slipstream I have only a mild intolerance for, but I fundamentally dispise Romance for the reason above. This one compared to the Eva version IMHO doesn't even have the advantage of sounding good. I Think What I will do is delete the bad songs from my playlist. Already, I can hear the little Angel on my shoulder gasping and going "No! You can't do that! Your playlist is orientated around completeness!" But... who cares. Rules are meant to be broken. As far as Blue Peter... I haven't heard it yet, nor Have I the club mixes of LTBL. as far as the 80's pop songs, I really liked some of the stuff on Discovery, but haven't gotten on so well with Islands, of which I find the only inoffensive track to be Flying Start. I just start to laugh uncontrollably when the title track begins playing. -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

Alan D Group: Members Posts: 3670 Joined: Aug. 2004 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 15:13 Quote (arron11196 @ Oct. 22 2005, 18:43) As far as Blue Peter... I haven't heard it yet, nor Have I the club mixes of LTBL. Strong tip:  just don't go down that road. Abandoning the idea of the complete album is exactly the solution that I chose myself. I chucked more than half of it away, but what's left ranges from excellent to pretty good. Doing something like that could restore your faith! (Besides, there never was a double album yet that wouldn't have been better for being edited into a single album.) Back to top

arron11196 Group: Members Posts: 826 Joined: April 2005 Posted: Oct. 22 2005, 17:23 Hmm, does this include Tr3s Lunas perhaps? Maybe jettison The Earth Spirit and keep SCF   -------------- Arron J Eagling Everyone's interpretation is different, and everyone has a right to that opinion. There is no "right" one, I am adding this post to communicate my thoughts to share them with like-minded souls who will be able to comment in good nature. (insert the last 5 mins of Crises here) Back to top

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