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Topic: Writing on the Celtic cross in the forest..., Is it Greek, or...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Ugo Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2007, 19:23

I've just come back from a really beautiful game I hosted, featuring María, Trinidad and Gary. During the course of it, we happened to wander by the Celtic cross in the forest, and questioned each other about the meaning of the four letters on it. Trinidad (or Gary, I don't remember) said it's Greek. I looked at them for just a few seconds, and I got myself convinced (or maybe disillusioned?) that it's not Greek at all - it's badly-written Cyrillic (Russian). Well, if the my 'theory' is right [i.e. I think that someone (Nick Catcheside?) was trying to write something in Russian using Greek characters, and he ended up creating a mess... :D], the letters on the cross spell out a name - Gaff. For those of you who don't remember :), Gaff is the mysterious, multi-lingual policeman/detective in the Blade Runner movie: he's the sleazy guy who gives Deckard his task, near the beginning of the movie, and he's the one who shouts out to him "You've done a man's job, sir!" towards the end - whatever that might mean. :D So - again, if all this is actually connected with MVR or Tr3s lunas - what, in your opinion, does the name "Gaff" have to do with the Celtic cross in the forest? Is Gaff from Blade Runner buried there? :D Or, much more simply, is Mike O. or Nick Catcheside a Blade Runner fan, or are they both?

I'm very grateful to anyone who replies... ;)

P.S. @ Alan: if you think this belongs to the Guide or to the Spoilers, please move it there.


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Trinidad Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2007, 19:36

I still think it's greek. Seeing the cyrilic alphabet, I can't see the two last letters on it (doesn't look like "ef" to me), but in greek is "theta" for sure. So it would be "gamma delta theta theta". It could be an acronym.
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2007, 19:44

Deleted and posted again as a separate topic... :D

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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Oct. 20 2007, 19:49

@ Trinidad: so, according to you, is it more likely to be something like GDTT? If that's the case, to me it still looks very like a writing/spelling mistake (maybe an intentional one?), because GOTT means "God" in German. Very appropriate to a cross, ain't it? :)

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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 21 2007, 03:57

Quote (Ugo @ Oct. 21 2007, 00:23)
P.S. @ Alan: if you think this belongs to the Guide or to the Spoilers, please move it there.

Actually I can't Ugo, as I'm only a moderator for the Tr3s Lunas Guide and Screenshots sections, so I don't have those magical powers here.

However, I think this is exactly the right place for this discussion. If we reach something like a convincing solution (or even several possibly convincing contenders), we could compose a concise summary of that and add it to the Guide. I think we're some way from that yet, though. Best to go on talking about it here.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Feb. 06 2010, 06:54

Quote (Ugo @ Oct. 20 2007, 19:49)
@ Trinidad: so, according to you, is it more likely to be something like GDTT? If that's the case, to me it still looks very like a writing/spelling mistake (maybe an intentional one?), because GOTT means "God" in German. Very appropriate to a cross, ain't it? :)

Old thread this, Ugo, but if it's Greek they're thetas, not taus. So you'd have GDThTh. Adding the "O" of Oldfield in two places you get "God Thoth". Thoth was an Egyptian God. As a glance at his Wikipedia entry will tell you, he has many attributes; you can select among them according to which Oldfieldian characteristics you want to highlight - for example, the mind of God and the judgment of the dead.
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: Feb. 06 2010, 10:56

Quote (nightspore @ Feb. 06 2010, 12:54)
Old thread this, Ugo, but if it's Greek they're thetas, not taus. So you'd have GDThTh.

Well, if those thetas represent the sound of the English th (or they may just as well not - I don't know any Greek! :D), that would tie in with my first hypotesis in this thread that whoever created that inscription was trying to write "Gaff" and messed it up. :) It just doesn't look to me like it's deliberately lacking vowels or anything. It looks to me like an incription which is complete on its own. If the delta is really meant as a D, then it may very well be an acronym.


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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Feb. 06 2010, 20:50

Quote (Ugo @ Feb. 06 2010, 10:56)
Quote (nightspore @ Feb. 06 2010, 12:54)
Old thread this, Ugo, but if it's Greek they're thetas, not taus. So you'd have GDThTh.

Well, if those thetas represent the sound of the English th (or they may just as well not - I don't know any Greek! :D), that would tie in with my first hypotesis in this thread that whoever created that inscription was trying to write "Gaff" and messed it up. :) It just doesn't look to me like it's deliberately lacking vowels or anything. It looks to me like an incription which is complete on its own. If the delta is really meant as a D, then it may very well be an acronym.

Hi Ugo, I think Mike probably wanted us to be creative - he knew we'd be curious as to what the four characters meant, and I imagined he had a few ideas but left things so that we can have creative play and enjoy ourselves. (As above, so below, to quote an old Hermetic saying: in other words, TL itself has no definite point or goal, so it's only reasonable to expect that sort of thing in the game's details.) The fact that the name "Maestro" begins with an "M" and ends with an "O" shows that Mike likes such wordplay.

One thing I think we can discount is that someone "messed things up". The games exhibit too much loving care, too much attention to detail, for that to happen. And the fact that that inscription recurs throughout TL and Maestro suggests it's an aspect Mr Oldfield was particularly pleased with.

PS, Yes, delta is transliterated as a D.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Feb. 06 2010, 20:51

PS Whether or not other languages have those characters, the Greek alphabet definitely does.
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ex member 419 Offline




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Posted: Feb. 07 2010, 00:08

Could that writing mean "thetans" as in an exiled extra terrestrial race that settled there? Maybe the cross is in memory of an extinct race, then again some thetans must have survived to build the cross, so technically they may still exist? Deb
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0+1(I1) Offline




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Posted: Mar. 13 2011, 19:48

I am staying in Greece so I have Greek friends and I showed them the Greek letters its delta gamma but the 99 or gg is unknown to them, please also note that it appears in tres lunas not only on the cross but also on the large space ship which is high above tres lunas in space, but this craft also appears in several fresco's etc in maestro. I think I can now say with confidence it reads (delta gamma vartheta vartheta)  which I believe may be a mathematical ref to the music of the spheres. please let me know your thoughts on this idea.
SEE VARTHETA HERE http://www.cs.brown.edu/system/software/latex/doc/symbols.pdf
CELTIC CROSS LINK http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3482/celticcrosscropavatarin.jpg

[IMG]http://img98.imageshack.us/img98....MG]


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L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Mar. 13 2011, 21:54

I agree that these are the letters. Transliterated, they read GDThTh. If you put the "O" of "Oldfield" in you get the Egyptian GOD ThOTh, but I think Mike probably just liked the look of the letters.
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0+1(I1) Offline




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Posted: Mar. 15 2011, 22:39

after further research and doing a google of these Greek letters it will take you to mathematical pages dealing with the equations looking at what they call THE MUSIC OF THE SPHERES it seems to much of a coincident to me to not be linked, it seems to be the maths behind the frequency of the vibration of planetary bodies and I found mention of the 3 shades of light, sorry maybe I should of cut & pasted it.

--------------
L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Mar. 15 2011, 23:03

That sounds really interesting - maybe you've solved the mystery! Could you post your link?
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Mar. 16 2011, 05:35

Quote (0 @ 1(I1)+Mar. 16 2011, 03:39)
after further research and doing a google of these Greek letters it will take you to mathematical pages dealing with the equations looking at what they call THE MUSIC OF THE SPHERES it seams to much of a coincident to me to not be linked, it seems to be the maths behind the frequency of the vibration of planetary bodies and I found mention of the 3 shades of light, sorry maybe I should of cut & pasted it.

Spurred on by your post I did some googling and came up with this link. It all looks a bit flaky to me, but that's not the point, is it? - the issue for us is what meaning Mike attached to the symbols. Anyway, what seemed interesting here were the descriptions of the various kinds of brain activity. I quote:

Gamma waveforms "from 30 to 60 Hz , awake , highly creative states , artistic creation , music composition and appreciation , heightened intuition , comprehensive awareness."

Delta waveforms, from 0.1 to 4 Hz , dreamless deep sleep , full trance , loss of awareness of material form, release of human growth hormones , pineal to hypothalamic correlation."

Theta waveforms "from 4 to 8 Hz , dreaming sleep (rem states) , deep meditation , light trance , hypnagogic imagery , emotional states , increased catecholamine production , extra sensory perception."

(I wonder though why theta would appear twice in Mike's inscription? That seems not quite to fit the idea.)

The article (which I haven't read in detail because I've got too much on my plate at the moment) seems to be trying to suggest a link between this stuff and the Pythagorean concept of the Music of the Spheres, the vibrational frequencies associated with the planets, etc.. It all sounds very much like something MO might have been interested in (particularly at the time of creating Music VR, with its creative and 'chilling out' implications), and I think you may well to have got closer than anyone else to solving the puzzle here. Very nicely spotted, and thanks for pointing it out.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Mar. 16 2011, 08:01

Quote (Alan D @ Mar. 16 2011, 05:35)
\

(I wonder though why theta would appear twice in Mike's inscription? That seems not quite to fit the idea.)

\

I'd guess for emphasis - to highlight the idea that dreams are a virtual world too. Actually, I think this solves the mystery. The letters are about brainwaves.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Mar. 18 2011, 00:49

Quote (Alan D @ Mar. 16 2011, 05:35)
Spurred on by your post I did some googling and came up with this link.

This link actually mentions Thoth as well, so it looks as though my earlier solution could be partly right after all. Three letters+the O of Oldfield = a god of creation. And those same three letters are different kinds of brainwave, as well as maybe pointing to a music of the spheres connection (I haven't looked at this yet). Very clever.
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0+1(I1) Offline




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Posted: Mar. 19 2011, 19:00

Sorry nightspore, I thought I had messaged U re the THOTH link between our theories, its uncanny wouldn't U agree.
+ IT all MIKES SENCE 2 I 4 1, U ?
I am pasting here the message I sent U
Posted: Mar. 16 2011, 07:44


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original message sent on: Mar. 15 2011, 23:43:
I have been looking at your idea which due the the graphics throughout both games but more so in maestro of pyramids and hieroglyphics throughout the halls could well be right, re what I found it was not just  a straight search I believe I entered delta gamma var`theta but I did not find it straight away, if I can find it again I will post it

nightspore has read this message

-----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.vexilpublishing.biz
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NEW INFORMATION FOR READERS IN LINKS BELOW
Readers please note there is a subject on this on the MaestrO topic to see it follow this link http://tubular.net/forums....;t=8387

JUST INCASE ANYONE MISSED ALAN D's link in the post above, (yes Alan D this seems to fit very well to what I was writing about): http://www.evolver.net/user...._part_1

+ a new link to the CELTIC CROSS [IMG]http://img98.imageshack.us/img98....MG]

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Plus I have so far been unable to recreate the search where I found the info that lead to the discovery of the link between the Greek letters & Music of the Spheres.

Yet what I do keep coming across is that this GAMMA DELTA VARTHETA VARTHETA when searched together with words like vibrations or physics etc it does come up with many interesting results, i.e. the speed of sound, string theory & much more related to sound resonance in the building blocks of the laws of the universe & all in it, so I think Mike could really be onto something here?.

Please note I have now created a central post on the Tubular Talk\general discussions board of the forum under SYMBOLS IN MIKE'S WORK which has many links to information that may be useful in interpreting these symbols & it can be accessed via this link http://tubular.net/forums....t=10382


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L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Mar. 19 2011, 20:21

Quote (0+1(I1) @ Mar. 19 2011, 19:00)
Sorry nightspore, I thought I had messaged U re the THOTH link between our theories, its uncanny wouldnt U agree.
+ IT all MIKES SENCE 2 I 4 1, U ?
I am pasting here the message I sent U
Posted: Mar. 16 2011, 07:44


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original message sent on: Mar. 15 2011, 23:43:
I have been looking at your idea which due the the graphics throughout both games but more so in maestro of pyramids and hieroglyphics throughout the halls could well be right, re what I found it was not just  a straight search I believe I entered delta gamma var`theta but I did not find it straight away, if I can find it again I will post it

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http://www.vexilpublishing.biz

Thanks, 0+1(I1). There must have been gremlins in the messaging system. But yes, I agree. Strangely, I've suggested Thoth before, and everyone has pooh-poohed it.  :(
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0+1(I1) Offline




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Posted: Oct. 28 2011, 01:37

Quote (nightspore @ Mar. 20 2011, 03:21)
Quote (0 @ 1(I1)+Mar. 19 2011, 19:00)
Sorry nightspore, I thought I had messaged U re the THOTH link between our theories, its uncanny wouldn't U agree.
+ IT all MIKES SENCE 2 I 4 1, U ?
I am pasting here the message I sent U
Posted: Mar. 16 2011, 07:44


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Original message sent on: Mar. 15 2011, 23:43:
I have been looking at your idea which due the the graphics throughout both games but more so in maestro of pyramids and hieroglyphics throughout the halls could well be right, re what I found it was not just  a straight search I believe I entered delta gamma var`theta but I did not find it straight away, if I can find it again I will post it

nightspore has read this message

--------------
http://www.vexilpublishing.biz

Thanks, 0+1(I1). There must have been gremlins in the messaging system. But yes, I agree. Strangely, I've suggested Thoth before, and everyone has pooh-poohed it.  :(

Sorry nightspore in revisiting topics I see that you had replied to my post here some time back & I had failed to see your post, you seem to of suffered too from peoples slack bowels or did they take the P in which case a "B"out of SLACK (& a BL out of) BLADDERS! (LOL) would that be "P" pooing your idea? getting away from the blacker times yet making a note of such a phrase for use in future conversation [Melchite\Melched?] one moves on from lower matters to consider higher bodily functions above the level of the eyes whilst always keeping these experiences in the mind's "I"/eye.

I in looking into Alan D's post & your reply to it in which you question why two theta's?  one is made to wonder if the two theta's could be representational of the birth & death states of mind all humans or sentient beings must pass through in entering & leaving the reality of the world/life into which we arrive in & depart from keeping in mind that this inscription appears both on the cross (which MO is on record as stating is representational of his grave) & in several other places, or maybe it could also be to do with Mike's liking to meditate or his experience whilst high could account for the inclusion of two theta states occurring (JUST A THOUGHT OR TWO    :/  :laugh: ).

Thus a thought to add to the list of theories.

I would also like to thank you Alan D for your acknowledgement & recognition of the idea I proposed above, i.e. that my proposing that these Greek letters may be linked to the album &/or MUSIC OF THE SPHERES in which you find reason to agree & acknowledge my theory as having merit as in your post below.
Quote
Quote (0 @ 1(I1)+Mar. 16 2011, 03:39)
after further research and doing a google of these Greek letters it will take you to mathematical pages dealing with the equations looking at what they call THE MUSIC OF THE SPHERES it seams to much of a coincident to me to not be linked, it seems to be the maths behind the frequency of the vibration of planetary bodies and I found mention of the 3 shades of light, sorry maybe I should of cut & pasted it.

Spurred on by your post I did some googling and came up with this link. It all looks a bit flaky to me, but that's not the point, is it? - the issue for us is what meaning Mike attached to the symbols. Anyway, what seemed interesting here were the descriptions of the various kinds of brain activity. I quote:

Gamma waveforms "from 30 to 60 Hz , awake , highly creative states , artistic creation , music composition and appreciation , heightened intuition , comprehensive awareness."

Delta waveforms, from 0.1 to 4 Hz , dreamless deep sleep , full trance , loss of awareness of material form, release of human growth hormones , pineal to hypothalamic correlation."

Theta waveforms "from 4 to 8 Hz , dreaming sleep (rem states) , deep meditation , light trance , hypnagogic imagery , emotional states , increased catecholamine production , extra sensory perception."

(I wonder though why theta would appear twice in Mike's inscription? That seems not quite to fit the idea.)

The article (which I haven't read in detail because I've got too much on my plate at the moment) seems to be trying to suggest a link between this stuff and the Pythagorean concept of the Music of the Spheres, the vibrational frequencies associated with the planets, etc.. It all sounds very much like something MO might have been interested in (particularly at the time of creating Music VR, with its creative and 'chilling out' implications), and I think you may well to have got closer than anyone else to solving the puzzle here. Very nicely spotted, and thanks for pointing it out.


--------------
L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
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