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Topic: What a load of......, just listened to cd 1 & 2< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Oct. 03 2005, 13:20

TSODE follows the same The Moody Blues style of seguéing songs. They're not really continuous - they're attached to each other in a way it works. To me, it's an album of short instrumentals.

Light And Shade... Well, I gave it a clear, focused listen to it this weekend. My opinions so far: Light is good. Maybe even very good. Shade sucks.

It was surprising, but I found myself enjoying most of Light. 'Angelique' is definitely the best song here, if only for the melody. The two piano pieces have grown on me to the point where they are meaningful now. 'Closer' is solid - it's a bit sad that the best melody in the album wasn't written by Mike. Still, I'm ever so thankful that he spared me the bagpipes and the SMASHING CATHARTIC climax at the end. 'Sunset' is a pretty track, also.
On the minus side, 'Our Father' is lame easy-listening. 'The Gate'... I'm a bit torn in this one. At one moment, the Vocaloids have a perverse beauty, and at other moment, they're just dreadful. And there isn't even a good melody in the song. 'First Steps' is surprisingly good, but... wasn't there a better melody to explore? Why did he have to bring up the 'Tr3s Lunas' melody anyway? I've already heard that.

Shade... well, 'Resolution' and 'Romance' are both atrocious, and the less times I hear these songs from now on, the better for my health. 'Slipstream'... I just wonder why Mike felt the need to take the riff from that demo song. The riff isn't even any good! You want to tell me Mike couldn't come up with anything better? You gotta be kidding. 'Quicksilver' is a bloody mess of obtrusive synthesizer effects, and 'Nightshade' has a bit more of "snap" because of the drummer, but aside from that, it Smells Like Filler Spirit. 'Ringscape' is the best one, after all, the original theme was good. Still, there's something in me that says this track could (and should!;) have been developed further.

The two most "acclaimed" tracks here pass me by completely. 'Surfing' is fairly catchy, but the Vocaloids hurt the song too much. And the middle break also harms it, as in "why does the rest of the song (and the album!;) has to be so limp?" And 'Tears Of An Angel' never grabbed me at all, and to be honest, the title of that song causes a very unnerving feeling in me that the song itself doesn't justify - but it's probably personal here.


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Oct. 03 2005, 14:51

One more thing... Some of you might call me crazy, but I'm getting tired of Mike's guitar playing style.  Listen to 'Closer': "dooo diddly-doodly-dooo deedeedeediddly-doo"... Come on, just play the melody already!

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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 03 2005, 15:05

This thread is covering too much ground to be sensible, but I can't read these posts without expressing disagreement with the idea that TSODE is a mere collection of bits. Apart from a few struggles on first hearing, I've always felt that it makes an entirely coherent whole, especially if you've read the book. The musical threads are stitched together by an implied narrative; I think I could sense this unity before I read the novel, but it became rock solid afterwards.

(So far I detect no such unity in Light and Shade. The significance of the title completely evades me, in fact.)
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tamas Offline




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Posted: Oct. 03 2005, 20:05

I  agree with Toby and Sir Mustapha, that TSODE is, in its "spirit" more an album with separated, short tracks. Although  that structure probablyfollows better the structure of the novel. But you rarely hear here the same melody returning, varying in the similar fashion than in albums like Omm, Amarok, etc.

It is interesting to see how MO's music became more and more fragmented in the last 10 years. TB2 was split into "tracks", but it was still a very coherent, beatufully evolving album. Then TSODE was not only split into tracks, but the connection between songs became looser. This connection became even more weeker in TB3 and TMB, where, very often only simple melodies, or effects connect the tracks. In Voyager, T3SLunas, Ligh+Shade the tracks are already completely separated.

I don't say that this evolution is necessarly bad. I completely understand that Mike became bored with his usual way of stucturing music after 30 years. It is just like a writer should write novels of 600 pages every 2-3 years in 3 decades. That could be a horrible pressure, and probably this is the reason why many writers prefer varriing novels with short stories. Although I think there are very few occassions when somebody is as a good novel writer then a short story writer.

For me one of the greatest values of Mike's instrumental music is its "storrytelling", "mythopoethical" value, which can work really good in longer tracks. This is the reason I was so glad finding the long, brilliantly evolving variation of First Step in this album. I wish the same could have been done with TOAA. Strange, I feel this amazing song an "epic" in scope, despite beeing it relatively short.
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Hifiguru Offline




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Posted: Oct. 04 2005, 06:55

Hi all

I havent read many comments here and some older guys here might remember me from irc channel but i just wanted to tell that i didnt have any hopes for new album (because i actually knew about it yesterday lol)

So i listened samples only and yes it was enough to see that Oldfield isnt going back to old stuff i like most...progressive rock no more? TB3 was basically last album i liked...there was some good songs in Guitars as well but all after that were disappointment.

I noticed also i have heard couple tunes from this last album before...I dont like this new age stuff (TSODE was masterpiece but he should had left that as his only new age album)

I may buy this one too but just because i been collecting Oldfield many years, not that im interested of this music...still going to listen ommadawn and such and staying away from this modern stuff.

Oh well...have a nice day ;)


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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: Oct. 04 2005, 13:03

Quote (Hifiguru @ Oct. 04 2005, 06:55)
I noticed also i have heard couple tunes from this last album before...I dont like this new age stuff (TSODE was masterpiece but he should had left that as his only new age album)

TSODE certainly wasn't his only one. "Voyager" got a Grammy nomination as a new age album. I think that "Islands" was quite successful in this sector as well.

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"In the land of the Dacotahs,
Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 04 2005, 16:06

Quote (tamas @ Oct. 04 2005, 01:05)
TSODE is, in its "spirit" more an album with separated, short tracks.

I'd say the exact opposite is true. Technically it's a collection of short distinct tracks stuck together; but in spirit it makes a coherent whole.

There's more than one way to achieve unity in a work of art.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Oct. 04 2005, 16:13

But then, we have the difference between a concept album and a single composition. Is "Dark Side Of The Moon" a single composition because the tracks are linked together and they share a common topic?

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Salamanda Offline




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Posted: Oct. 05 2005, 10:10

If Mike wants to continue to make electronic music in the style of L&S then so be it but it needs to have raw emotion and passion in it.  I am just left totally cold by this new album and I really detest the synthesised vocaloids.  Mike's music in the past has been stunningly beautiful and has make my spine tingle, especially SODE which is an absolute masterpiece of flowing organic melodies and is really exciting to listen to.  

I have bought every album, dvd etc that Mike has produced over the years and I absolutely love all of them (ok so bits of Tr3s Lunas and Guitars are a bit ropey) but I think Mike has got it very very wrong with L&S.  The whole sound is way over-processed and plastic to the point where any feeling has just dissappeared.  Angelique is perhaps the only redeeming song on here but the 'bugger me' voices spoil it.

When Mike comes out with statements like "This is one of the presets on my synth", "This one is named after my horse / motorbike" or "I just push the go button and see what comes out", you know that he is running out of ideas fast.  

It really pains me to write a bad review about one of Mike's works because I am a die hard fan and I always thought that I would never criticise Mike but this time I believe the criticism is fair and just.  This album is extremely tedious and boring and does not move my soul or excite me in any way.  And as for those damn vocaloids.  Mike, sing it yourself if need be (as on Heavens Open) just get rid of computerised voices, they are ugly and horrible and they give me the creeps.

This is purely my opinion and I'm sorry to all the people who love this album but I think Mike has dropped the ball !!
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 05 2005, 16:10

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Oct. 04 2005, 21:13)
But then, we have the difference between a concept album and a single composition. Is "Dark Side Of The Moon" a single composition because the tracks are linked together and they share a common topic?

I'm not talking about defining or classifying it. I'll leave that to museum curators and archivists. What counts for me is whether it lives as a unified work of art - and Salamanda hit the nail on the head when he referred to it as a stream of flowing organic melodies. TSODE grows from its beginnings like a tree - not like a cloud (as Ruskin would say).
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Salamanda Offline




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Posted: Oct. 05 2005, 17:16

Ok I'm going to back track a little from my last post as I feel I may have been a little unfair on this album.  True I still am not keen on the vocaloids (The Gate comes close to being the worst ever MO track) but overall the music does grow on you.  Although it has taken me close to ten listens to start appreciating it !  I still wish Mike had made something more along the lines of Tr3s Lunas which I think is a better album.

I almost completely dismissed this album but although it is not one of his best, and certainly doesn't come close to Incantations or Songs of distant earth, it definitely gets better, it just doesn't hit you first time like most of Mike's other past glories.

I'm not against Mike computerising his sound after all he's done it many times before especially with the likes of Earth Moving, which I think is great !!.  I just hope that in the future he makes it sound a bit more natural and live like he did to perfection with Songs of Distant Earth.
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torbenyj Offline




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Posted: Oct. 05 2005, 17:27

just hope that in the future he makes it sound a bit more natural and live like he did to perfection with Songs of Distant Earth.

I agree

tyj
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Marky Offline




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Posted: Oct. 05 2005, 20:06

Quote (Salamanda @ Oct. 05 2005, 22:16)
Ok I'm going to back track a little from my last post as I feel I may have been a little unfair on this album.  

Ah....Salamander.... Mike's music may have changed a lot in 15 years since Amarok, but your view has changed quite a bit in 15 hours!!  Lets see how you feel when you get out of bed tomorrow.
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TubularBelle Offline




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Posted: Oct. 06 2005, 00:21

I think an important point here as mentioned by Salamanda is that it is not only the album that is creating discention amongst the fans but Mikes own words, he is confusing the issue. As I said somewhere else, in his first interview at mikeoldfield.org he talks so glibly about the album, all the comments mentioned in Salamandas post, I just pushed a button, I did this one in 3 days, I named this one after my horse or bike, I didn't use real voices, this one is a demo from the machinery I bought, and then there are the covers, and unfortunately, not Mikes fault,  the 3 or 4 tracks that some of us have already heard from Tres Lunas II which he has used. But in the more recent interview translated by Maria in another thread, Mikes spin on this album sounds completely different. He says it took 4 weeks to put together most tracks, that he recorded real singers and experimented with their voices, and that the album took a very long time to make. Not the impression he gave us from that first interview. Is he trying to sound so cool and relaxed about it all that he sounds like he just doesn't care. There is no doubt that something is amiss with this new album, even though I have not even heard it yet so am trying to reserve my judgement, but in the eyes of most of his fans. It is NOT the use of machinery, most of us agree that TSODE is one of his finest works, and even though he use to say he hated people who were recording music when they couldn't even play real instruments etc we all know he has used synthesizers since the very beginning. The vocaloids are obviously a big issue, can't wait to hear them. BUT I believe the REAL problem here is Mikes exclusion of any input from anyone else, he seems void of a producer, other musicians, singers, any outside influence to the point that he doesn't even seem to know what is current out there and what isn't. Whether we want the old Mike or the new Mike is irelevent, it's himself that seems confused about what he is doing. Even the dance tracks which I love are still stuck in the 90's, he hasn't noticed that the best dance artists like the Chemical Brothers and others are moving on themselves because they know that this genre is limited and has reached saturation point. It seems like Mike is so into himself right now that he wants to be better than the best in all fields of music and yet is not even listening to what is out there. Like even when he talked about his inspiration for using the Light and Shade 2cd concept, he mentioned some French band I think that I have never heard of when other more well known artists have used this concept in recent times as well which he seems to be unaware of, I have a few in my own collection, the most recent being Mobys new album 'Hotel' which has an ambient cd and a dance cd.

Mike, take direction, listen to other artists, take the very best that you can find and use it to your own advantage, and then do your own thing with it, but don't lock yourself in a time warp and rely on your own imagination without even knowing what is going on in the world. It doesn't work for you anymore. All of us, when we are young, are aware of the current trends whether we choose to follow them or not and we tend to remain influenced by those same trends from our youth as we age. In our 40' and 50's we are no longer being influenced by what is new and trendy, and say a classical musician can carry on writing and playing classical music without those new influences and Mike could carry on writing and recording in his unique original style if he chose to (most of us believe that would be the best thing), but if he wants to keep up with the youth market he has to venture outside once in a while, expose himself to the lifestyles of the common man. He isn't 20 anymore and he can't think like a 20 year old. Most of us don't even want that but he doesn't care. Even his interviews don't seem to give a clear understanding of what he is trying to achieve with his music at this point in time. In fact, it seems like he is being more influenced by outside trends than even HE knows without even exposing himself to them, it is very strange and weird and I will stop now because I am confusing myself.


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qjamesfloyd Offline




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Posted: Oct. 06 2005, 04:13

That is a fair and honest assesment i feel, and yes the problem more and more is that he is to alone, i still believe he has greatness inside him, but maybe he needs a push right now, and as much as he hates to admit it, maybe the time has come for Mike to use a producer, a good one too.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Oct. 06 2005, 04:34

Although it's always interesting to see what an artist says about his/her work, artists are often not very articulate when they step out of their chosen medium. What they are really trying to say and do is in the art. That's where they express themselves most fully. So I don't think what Mike says about this new album really matters much if the music itself is getting through.

And I'm pleased to say that some of it, slowly, is getting through, for me.
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TubularBelle Offline




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Posted: Oct. 10 2005, 21:31

I noticed a few connections between what I was trying to say in my last post on here and the Norwegian review that is in another thread, although I hope that I did not sound so harsh. But even though the Norwegian reviewer has definitely gone over the top in his crticisms I think he has one or two valids points, worth reading.

Refer to 'Norwegian review of L&S translated'.


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siul Offline




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Posted: Oct. 11 2005, 04:48

Hi.

I agree with TubularBelle and qjamesfloyd.

I am sure Mike hasn´t lost the magic touch, it continues inside him, sure, but IMHO, Mike needs a producer.

Light and Shade is a nice record (not great), with some highpoints, but it seems to me like dated in 90s instance of 2005. I am sorry, but it is no a good idea Mike producing himself.

Regards.
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TubularBelle Offline




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Posted: Oct. 11 2005, 21:17

I got the album on Friday finally and have listened to it 4 times all the way through but don't feel ready to write an informed review as yet. It is better than I expected but certainly my earlier opinion as stated in this thread before even hearing it still applies for me.

Take away the internet and all that pre-exposure we got, release Light as a 2cd set with Tres Lunas 3 years ago before Tres Lunas 2 was created (by someone who naturally did not expect those tunes to be rehashed 3 years later), release Shade as a single cd 6 years ago, and everyone is HAPPY, no problems. Great music, wrong year. It is 2005 after all, and even though Mike and some of us are ageing, the music public is only getter younger. Mike chose to try and follow the trend, too late, he now needs to choose to go back to his roots. Having said all that, I LOVE Shade and I am enjoying it immensely, but I am in my 40's and a long term fan and can make allowances, not everyone can or should.


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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Oct. 12 2005, 02:54

My opinion at last:
Angelique is a nice way to start the album, I quite like the piano, but the voices do annoy me, not because they are synthetic but because of whatever they are saying. I've heard they are supposed to be saying 'angelique' but for the life of me the only thing I can hear is 'burger me'. The track is good enough so that I'm not too annoyed by it though. Blackbird is a lovely track with great piano, but I think it could do with a little more development, something else going on. I think I need some more time to make up my mind on The Gate, all I'll say for now is that it's interesting, and the guitar is good. First Steps has a great tune, and many interesting sections. It's one of my favourites, especially the ending. Our Father really does need some development, but it isn't bad. Along with Rocky, it's a nice track but by the end I'm wishing it would do something else. Sunset however is one of my favourites, and the bonus track Pres de Toi is OK.

Shade of course is more dance oriented, which is a bit of a problem as I'm not a dance music fan. I quite like the guitar on Quicksilver though. There's been a lot of debate on the voice in Resolution, but I don't mind it. Pity there isn't a lot else to the track. Slipstream just seems like another techno one, but Surfing is strangely good. It's been described as hypnotic before and that's exactly how I would describe it. I love the guitars as well. Tears of an Angel has to be my favouite track from the album so far, there's nothing I can say about it that hasn't already been said apart from it rocks! I don't like Romance (or Nightshade or Lakme apart from the beginning) but I don't hate it anywhere near as much as some do. The other great track here is Ringscape. I loved it from Tres Lunas II and I love it now.

Sorry for the slightly disorganised nature of those paragraphs, I'm just getting my opinions down about all the tracks. Shade has my favourite tracks so far (TOAA and Ringscape), but it also has the dancy ones that I don't like. Light is more consistant, but doesn't have those highlights. Overall, I like enough tracks to make me feel the album was worth getting. This is just on about three listens, so my opinions may change, but this is how I feel about it at this moment.


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