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Topic: Tubular Bells 4 Intro (edit)< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 04 2023, 16:12



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-vxkrmZhSQ

Underwhelming...disappointing :|  Kinda feels "fan made" although apparently official. Also, the image used (as above) appears on fan sites from last year*, adding more to the "unofficial" vibe. Maybe the full length version will offer more.

* As seen here
http://www.orabidoo-mikeoldfield.net/2022....ne.html
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: May 04 2023, 22:31

I liked it; the little solo guitar melody that starts after the piano seemed new and pleasing. There's an atmosphere of "more to come" about the music, and I'd be most surprised if Mike Oldfield didn't eventually bring out the entire album - although perhaps bit by bit. Why not, after all? Why should an album have to be released "all at once"?

I notice the tubular bells, interpreted as the hands of a clock, now point to 2.27.

But I still think the background of the cover art should be red, to suggest Mars, the 4th planet.
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Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 04 2023, 23:49

Quote (nightspore @ May 04 2023, 22:31)
I liked it; the little solo guitar melody that starts after the piano seemed new and pleasing. There's an atmosphere of "more to come" about the music, and I'd be most surprised if Mike Oldfield didn't eventually bring out the entire album - although perhaps bit by bit. Why not, after all? Why should an album have to be released "all at once"?


I found it curiously undercooked and by the numbers; no real new musical development or creativity; If it had appeared on the Lost in Static or Between Cars and Chaos albums, it wouldn't have been out of place at all. Of course the full 8/9 minute version may bring something more to the table.    Here's hoping :O
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: May 05 2023, 02:56

TBH I expected this to be crap, but I love it! It's very much in the vein of the original - the same mood, the same sounds.
It has the same feel as "early stages" and "return to ommadawn" - a bit rough, but with a lot of soul.

What I find slightly upsetting is that I think it may be released without Mike's consent. There are a couple of bum notes left in, that I think indicates that it was indeed meant to be a demo. I can't imagine Mike saying "Oh well, go ahead and release the rough demo I sent you then!".
More likely, the record company thought "He sent this to us, it's ours now".


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Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 05 2023, 03:39

Quote (larstangmark @ May 05 2023, 02:56)
TBH I expected this to be crap, but I love it! It's very much in the vein of the original - the same mood, the same sounds.
It has the same feel as "early stages" and "return to ommadawn" - a bit rough, but with a lot of soul.

What I find slightly upsetting is that I think it may be released without Mike's consent. There are a couple of bum notes left in, that I think indicates that it was indeed meant to be a demo. I can't imagine Mike saying "Oh well, go ahead and release the rough demo I sent you then!".
More likely, the record company thought "He sent this to us, it's ours now".

Says here https://www.loudersound.com/news....versary that Oldfield "oversaw" the creation of the 50th Anniversary package, including the Tubular Bells 4 intro, so I don't think you need to be upset about that.
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larstangmark Offline




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Posted: May 05 2023, 03:44

Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ May 05 2023, 03:39)
Quote (larstangmark @ May 05 2023, 02:56)
TBH I expected this to be crap, but I love it! It's very much in the vein of the original - the same mood, the same sounds.
It has the same feel as "early stages" and "return to ommadawn" - a bit rough, but with a lot of soul.

What I find slightly upsetting is that I think it may be released without Mike's consent. There are a couple of bum notes left in, that I think indicates that it was indeed meant to be a demo. I can't imagine Mike saying "Oh well, go ahead and release the rough demo I sent you then!".
More likely, the record company thought "He sent this to us, it's ours now".

Says here https://www.loudersound.com/news....versary that Oldfield "oversaw" the creation of the 50th Anniversary package, including the Tubular Bells 4 intro, so I don't think you need to be upset about that.

"Oversee" and "approve" are not necesarily the same thing. It could very well be that he didn't have the final say about what material was to be included.

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pantofis Offline




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Posted: May 05 2023, 10:24

There's the 8:33 version on Amazon Music which makes a bit better impression. It's charming and rough and has more themes. It's basically the same kind of exercise as TBII without Trevor Horn's click track obligation and modernistic embellishments.

I hope in the end it's one of those classic Mike being angry with his record label scenarios that predated TBII.
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Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 05 2023, 12:45

Quote (pantofis @ May 05 2023, 10:24)
There's the 8:33 version on Amazon Music which makes a bit better impression. It's charming and rough and has more themes. It's basically the same kind of exercise as TBII without Trevor Horn's click track obligation and modernistic embellishments.

I hope in the end it's one of those classic Mike being angry with his record label scenarios that predated TBII.

Is there a link for the Amazon music listening? I couldn't find it and maybe you need to be a US resident to hear it. (ED: never mind, I found it).

And Trevor Horn achieved wonders on TB2, the greatest popular music album of all time by anyone in my opinion. Just as he did a few years earlier with Simple Minds' Street Fighting Years, another sublime, rare masterpiece of flawless, soaring, lush, sumptious, stunning, uplifting, consummate, pure sonic bliss.
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Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 05 2023, 13:27

Quote (larstangmark @ May 05 2023, 03:44)
"Oversee" and "approve" are not necesarily the same thing. It could very well be that he didn't have the final say about what material was to be included.

oversee

/ˌəʊvəˈsiː/

verb

gerund or present participle: overseeing

supervise (a person or their work), especially in an official capacity

supervise

/ˈsuːpəvʌɪz/

verb

observe and direct the execution of (a task or activity)

----------

We could go on defining official, observe, direct, execute, etc. They all point to one thing.
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cAveMan Offline




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Posted: May 05 2023, 13:41

Very underwhelming. Sounds like a stitched up demo of an abandoned project, which is exactly what this was, or so it seems. And dare I say, not very inventive too - clearly made 1:1 on TB blueprint.

If we compare "TBIV Intro" to "Early Stages" TB II demo, the latter sounds miles ahead.

All in all, I just wish RTO was the last piece we heard from Mike, not this demo.
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Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 05 2023, 21:03

Quote (cAveMan @ May 05 2023, 13:41)
Very underwhelming. Sounds like a stitched up demo of an abandoned project, which is exactly what this was, or so it seems. And dare I say, not very inventive too - clearly made 1:1 on TB blueprint.

If we compare "TBIV Intro" to "Early Stages" TB II demo, the latter sounds miles ahead.

All in all, I just wish RTO was the last piece we heard from Mike, not this demo.

I must admit it has grown on me somewhat after 10 more listens, but still slightly disappoints.  The full 8 and a half minute track is actually available to stream for free on Amazon Music, even though it's a bit tricky to get it to actually play...only worked once for me, the rest of the time it randomly plays other tracks by random artists.

https://music.amazon.com/albums/B0BZQKL8CF

 But unfortunately even that doesn't sound all that amazing on first impressions.  I agree about comparing this to "Sentinel" which is an absolute masterpiece, in all its iterations.  And I also agree that compared to the utterly transcendent and seemingly effortless, other-worldly perfection of Return to Ommadawn, this last offering sounds, at times, ever so laboured.  At the same time, parts of it also have the timeless, inspired Oldfield magic that you don't find anywhere else in this word.  One of the most interesting parts to me is the inclusion of the Keith Emerson/ELP-style keyboards which I don't remember hearing in any of his previous works.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: May 05 2023, 22:04

Anyway, it's new Oldfield. No doubt "Ugo" and "Scatterplot" and "Alan D" and all the rest will materialize soon to add their 2 cents worth.
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scottishwildcat Offline




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Posted: May 06 2023, 04:08

Poor stuff indeed, glad he at least apparently had the self-awareness not to continue. "Same structure, different tunes" was a novel concept for TB2, but sounded like this was on course to be a less inventive rehash of that idea.
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Platinumpty Offline




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Posted: May 07 2023, 09:12

Here’s my tuppence worth…

It’s a bit more involving than I’d thought at first. The opening theme is of course very familiar, a strange second cousin of the original. But that’s as it should be - you can’t really do a TBIV without closely referencing the iconic theme.

The baseline that comes in is great - that feels like the real hook of part 1.

Then the “Irish theme” that emerges seems to have wandered in off RTO, not an entirely unwelcome presence. It’s pretty enough.

The fast guitars bit has some unexpected modulations - feels like the most original section. Any more musically literate folk identify those changes?

The ending (minor tube II) is genuinely moving. Wish it had continued, with some of Terry’s flute or a HG styled muted trumpet. I think if Mike had reached out to other musicians, the creative impetus might have continued.

Left me wanting more, which is a good thing. It’s definitely a grower.

I think maybe he didn’t get much of a response from the label, and that made him a bit down on the project. A shame as RTO sold pretty well and had gently positive reviews and he had a download hit with “Nuclear”!

We should show it more love… you never know. Mike’s not immune to positivity from fans.
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Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 07 2023, 11:59

Quote (Platinumpty @ May 07 2023, 09:12)
Here’s my tuppence worth…

It’s a bit more involving than I’d thought at first. The opening theme is of course very familiar, a strange second cousin of the original. But that’s as it should be - you can’t really do a TBIV without closely referencing the iconic theme.

The baseline that comes in is great - that feels like the real hook of part 1.

Then the “Irish theme” that emerges seems to have wandered in off RTO, not an entirely unwelcome presence. It’s pretty enough.

The fast guitars bit has some unexpected modulations - feels like the most original section. Any more musically literate folk identify those changes?

The ending (minor tube II) is genuinely moving. Wish it had continued, with some of Terry’s flute or a HG styled muted trumpet. I think if Mike had reached out to other musicians, the creative impetus might have continued.

Left me wanting more, which is a good thing. It’s definitely a grower.

I think maybe he didn’t get much of a response from the label, and that made him a bit down on the project. A shame as RTO sold pretty well and had gently positive reviews and he had a download hit with “Nuclear”!

We should show it more love… you never know. Mike’s not immune to positivity from fans.

Good analysis, thanks... Musically illiterate here - in that having once learnt to read music, I now no longer can - but nevertheless I knows what I likes, and I agree with you that "it's a grower".  On first few listens, it simply sounded much too much like the original opening, and with that already having been reduxed and remixed multiple times, including to masterful effect on Harbinger - it hit initially as too safe, too obvious, etc. It reminded me of how Sesame Street would take a song like Let It Be and basically reproduce it note for note but alter it just enough to make it distinct song, and thus produce their own song "Letter B".  Furthermore, it appears to me that the edited version does have portions which bear a passing if not striking resemblance to certain outstanding fan-made Oldfield homages, which again initially diluted the effect to this listener.  But under more careful and sober scrutiny, it is as you say, a more than worthy entry into the canon, and a serious earworm.  As I remarked in passing above, there is no doubt in my mind that it contains "...the magic that can only be found in his work, and nowhere else in this world".  Or as you put it, "genuinely moving".  Couldn't have summed it up better myself; heartwarming is another phrase that comes to mind.  In fact, I can feel a genuine lump in the throat, that weird kind of bittersweet "instant nostalgia" type feeling that one rarely experiences, of being reunited with a long lost, long forgotten treasure, as the beautiful melody of the acoustic guitar springs up in my mind.

As for fan reaction and the artist's feelings, 50 years of unparalleled, chivalrous contributions to the arts; one of the best selling British artists of all time; having produced comfortably, as far as I can tell, the greatest, most dazzling body of recorded music by any single artist working in any genre in the world that I know of since Tchaikovsky, in my personal opinion; and not being offered so much as an MBE, while the likes of Sir Ringo Starr, Sir Ray Davies, Sir Bob Geldof, Sir Karl Jenkins et al (that last one might particularly sting, for obvious reasons) are all made knights commanders of the British Empire (not detracting anything from their own accomplishments and contributions, both within music and in the wider world, of course); Music of the Spheres being passed over for a Classical BRIT Award in favor of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards' Spirit of the Glen–Journey, a truly dire album of offensively bland, pointless, throwaway bagpipe covers (imo..again with all due respect); never having to my knowledge even having been nominated for a Mercury Prize (again giving all props to Roni Size, Tubular Bells 3 is 10 times the album New Forms is; and don't even get me started on the hopelessly, impossibly overrated Screamadelica, the winner in a year when again TB2 wasn't even nominated) and so on and on - MGO is probably well inured to criticism and being unfairly, criminally (let's not mince words here) undervalued.  But at the same time, you're right, I personally feel a bit bad for misjudging the virtues of this recording too rashly and going public with my initial negative feelings, for the reasons outlined above.

I also think part of the reason for the overly unfavorable response was the fact that the first version anyone heard was the 4 minute "edit" which in its limited scope doesn't create quite the same impression as the complete piece.  Perhaps if the full version had been released all at once, fans would have been much more receptive and enthusiastic, since it offers much more and makes much more sense, musically and emotionally, in the context of everything, as you have described so admirably.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: May 07 2023, 22:41

Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ May 07 2023, 11:59)
(imo..again with all due respect);

imo = I'm MO.

Ah Mike, will we ever know your true opinions? Does that statement even have meaning?
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Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 08 2023, 16:47

Quote (nightspore @ May 07 2023, 22:41)
Quote (Sentinel_NZ @ May 07 2023, 11:59)
(imo..again with all due respect);

imo = I'm MO.

Ah Mike, will we ever know your true opinions? Does that statement even have meaning?

Why do you call everyone here "Mike"?  What's your MO?
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: May 08 2023, 22:43

Because he projects into everyone except me. Don't you?
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Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 09 2023, 04:37

Quote (nightspore @ May 08 2023, 22:43)
Because he projects into everyone except me. Don't you?

If you are seriously thinking as stated here that the musician Mike Oldfield mystically "projects himself into everyone" and that (apparently, only) you can sense this occult, magickal, supernatural phenomenon... then I'm afraid you're frankly mistaken and it can't be that this weird, highly abnormal delusion is particularly healthy..

BTW (by the way), "IMO" stands for, in internet slang parlance, "in my opinion".  (I honestly thought everyone knew that).
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Sentinel_NZ Offline




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Posted: May 09 2023, 15:56

Anyway someone on YouTube as was inevitable posted the whole thing..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSKat1-iCkQ

Which of course I don't approve of since it's against copyright, illegal, immoral, disrespectful to the artist and all that, but it's inevitable these days so there it is.
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