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Question: Tubular Bells 2003 copy protection :: Total Votes:40
Poll choices Votes Statistics
Buy it, because I think copy protection is a good idea and it stops people ripping of Mike's music. 8  [20.00%]
Buy it and keep it, but feel rather annoyed to have my rights as a consumer abused. 18  [45.00%]
Buy it and then take it back to the store for a refund to show the record company copy protection is not on. 4  [10.00%]
Buy it and then take it back to the store for a refund after ripping it. 3  [7.50%]
Totally ignore it and pretend it doesn't exist. 5  [12.50%]
Download it without buying to make a protest against copy protection. 2  [5.00%]
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Topic: Tubular Bells 2003 copy protection, what will you do?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Anonymizeruk Offline




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Posted: May 30 2003, 15:15

Gandalph - Yep. I paid a premium price for a working CD, which I listen to on my home audio system. It just so happens that I like to listen to music whilst working on my PC sometimes, and as it happens, with the audio set-up I have on my PC (without being big-headed, its pretty damn good) I do enjoy using my PC as a home entertainment system as well as a productivity tool (isn't that the idea behind 5.1 speakers, PC DVD players etc)

The only point I wanted to make was that it is very easy to get a decent quality copy without much effort, so why bother causing people problems with a duffy copy protection system?
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SCprogfan
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Posted: May 30 2003, 15:40

Searching the net, I have found several interesting news stories from last year regarding copy-protected CDs.  Macrovision states that thier copy protection is completely Red book compliant, and that the additional compressed music files with mini-player is a Yellow book session.  Philips, however apparently said that they did not want companies that were going to produce protected discs to put the familiar "compact disc" logo on them, because Philips didn't like the technology, and felt it would interfere with the public's ability to listen to the music.  I'm interested to know, since I can't buy it yet, is Bells2003 using Macrovision, and does it carry the familiar old "DISC" logo?
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Q! Offline




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Posted: May 30 2003, 15:52

Quote (Guest @ May 30 2003, 15:40)
and does it carry the familiar old "DISC" logo?

nope.

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Holger Offline




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Posted: May 30 2003, 16:05

Quote (Guest @ May 30 2003, 15:40)
I'm interested to know, since I can't buy it yet, is Bells2003 using Macrovision, and does it carry the familiar old "DISC" logo?

I don't know what copy protection system is used but no, it doesn't carry the logo.

Edit: ha, Q beat me to that  :D
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SCprogfan
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Posted: May 30 2003, 16:48

Wow, then...not carrying that logo is certainly interesting...
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Anonymizeruk Offline




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Posted: May 30 2003, 17:31

Hmmm.

I have the TB2003 box set, and have noticed that the TB2 and TB3 both carry the Compact Disc logo, but TB2003 doesn't.

It does have another logo however. I'll do my best to describe....

White circle, with a black triangle in the right hand half of it. Within the triangle, another white circle, with another black triangle.

Not sure what logo that is. Hmmmm......
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SHINE Offline




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Posted: May 31 2003, 06:19

I see that it's getting to complicated to simply listen to music...
              TB 2003 works right both on my cd player and my computer, but I see people having trouble to listen to it.
              When you buy a music CD, it MUST work in 100% cd players. If not,whrere are we going...?
              In my case,I'd like to make a copy to listen to it in my car.If I want to have it recorded in an audio tape,no problem, where's copy protection? But if you want to listen to it on your car cd-player,just buy another CD.
               I really don't understand...
               IMHO,all this "copy protected" stickers are motivating people (who know how to do it) to try to hack the protection software and ( for people who still doesn't know how to do it ) to download it for free on the internet.Voilà.
               I don't really think that musicians are going to get any proffit with this protection measures.And they are spending money in creating protection software.
               Why did I  buy the TB 2003 CD ? Because I love Mike's music. Why don't I buy all the CD from all the musics I like? Beacause they are so expensive and I have to create a preference scale.
               Why doesn' t everybody buy CD as me? I don't know, that's just the wy life goes...but as in life ,it's allways the same:  ten people make trouble and some million pay for them...
               
               Anyway... if your TB 2003 doesn't work on your CD player,take it back to the store,ask for the money you paid for it and begin sending letters and e-mails...You have official sites: GO AND COMPLAIN ABOUT IT
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Anonymizeruk Offline




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Posted: May 31 2003, 06:44

A small point I'd like to make -

I only have a very small collection of MP3s (less than 20). If I like someones music enough to listen to it more than once, I will usually buy the CD, as it is better quality.

The only exceptions are the odd track where I am not prepared to spend £15 for the sake of a single track (I also think paying £5 for the CD-Single is a rip-off too)
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SHINE Offline




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Posted: May 31 2003, 11:17

Well,in my last post here I said that TB 2003 worked right on my computer...
        Or I was talking about the DVD.
        I first listened to it on my HI FI system,no problem.
        But when I tried to listen to it on my PC,...grrrrrrrrr....,that player made gaps between every track,
IT'S JUST HORRIBLE.
        THEY MUST HAVE PUT A STICKER SAYING THAT CD WON'T WORK ON COMPUTERS.
        Gonna return it to the store
         :(  :(  :(  :(  :(
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: May 31 2003, 11:36

They are very reluctant to tell you that it might not work - what they hope for is that people will buy it and then not bother taking it back even if it doesn't work properly, as of course that means they get your money anyway.

Record companies put a lot of pressure on online retailers to not warn customers that the CDs they are buying are copy protected. Take a look at Amazon - it simply lists the album as 'Audio CD' (which it may not be...).

They are very careful to make sure that all the inconvenience is on the customer and not them...
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theweightless Offline




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Posted: May 31 2003, 13:25

well i already downloaded TB2003 from somewhere..so it is not very good protection they have there

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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: June 01 2003, 06:52

Here's a suggestion: send Warner a huge pile of burnt copies, as proof that copy protection does not work. At the same time, send a big list of people who do not want to make copies, but cannot play the CD. If this is sent to the record company, they may see that no-one wants copy protection. At the very least, the copy protection may hurt sales, which I'm sure they will be very concerned about :/

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Blue Dolphin Offline




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Posted: June 01 2003, 07:00

I'm sure Mike will read these complaints on this forum and will discuss it with Warner. ALthough I'm not sure if Warner will listen. Just my thoughts..

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Anonymizeruk Offline




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Posted: June 01 2003, 07:30

Send Warner a pile of burnt copies? now that would be cool (might even get some press attention)

Besides, it's just the same as copy protected games. Those who really want to make copies and sell them will have already found a way to extract the CD-DA from the disc.(anyone remember SafeDisc? That didnt last long.)

I hope Mike does read theese comments, and I'm sure that he would not be happy at the idea that some duffy copy protection system is generating negative opinions about his work.

I listened to TB2003 on my DVD player yesterday. It was the best I've heard it sounding. I just dont understand why it sounds sooo different on each audio system I use.

Hey - how about releasing a DVD-Audio version, all in 5.1? You could get better copy protection without causing so much hastle! (and would sound great too)
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maria Offline




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Posted: June 02 2003, 09:29

just to add that, for the moment, i won't have to return it to the shop cause it works perfect in my portable player...
the other step is trying it on my computer.
i told the guy in the shop that i knew some people is having trouble to play it in computers. he answered that it "should" also work... anyway he told me if i have some trouble to do so i can take it back.


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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: June 04 2003, 13:49

Quote
Here's a suggestion: send Warner a huge pile of burnt copies, as proof that copy protection does not work. At the same time, send a big list of people who do not want to make copies, but cannot play the CD.

The way of sending them a list of people who don't want to make copies but can't play the CD is by returning them - the figures of returned CDs, and I believe also the reason they were returned, will get back to Warner soon enough.

If anyone wants to send burnt copies to Warner, their address should be available through directories like the yellow pages (certainly it is in the UK).

I did think it would be funny to seal the doors to their offices shut and declare the world a-hole protected... ;)

Quote
I'm sure Mike will read these complaints on this forum and will discuss it with Warner. Although I'm not sure if Warner will listen.

I'll make sure he knows about it...
Warner ought to listen if they want him to stay on their label. That doesn't mean they will, of course, but didn't Mike say they seemed genuinely interested in his music? This is the time to find out if that's true...

Quote
I just dont understand why it sounds sooo different on each audio system I use.

I would make a guess that this is to do with error correction. Each player is going to have its own way of handling the huge amounts of digital errors present in TB2003, and some are going to handle them in a nicer-sounding way than others. Some can't handle them at all, and fill the playback with clicks and pops.

The DVD-A version is on its way - expect to jhave to scuff it across the floor a bit if you want it to behave in the same way as the CD edition ;)
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Ugo Offline




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Posted: June 04 2003, 18:53

Quote (Korgscrew @ June 04 2003, 19:49)
I would make a guess that this is to do with error correction. Each player is going to have its own way of handling the huge amounts of digital errors present in TB2003, and some are going to handle them in a nicer-sounding way than others. Some can't handle them at all, and fill the playback with clicks and pops.

Sorry, Richard, I don't understand this. Are you referring to those errors that are said to be deliberately inserted in CDs by record companies, as a further form of copy protection? I haven't yet got the TB 2003 CD [unbelieavable, but true... :)], but I have at least ten other CDs that have been hugely highlighted here (in the press and elsewhere) as containing that sort of 'deliberate errors', and they, at least to my cloth ears, sound exactly the same on the 4 players I have. [Pioneer HiFi set, Sony Discman, Panasonic Tuner/Cassette/CD combo and Asus CD-ROM player. ;)] I hear no clicks and no pops on any of them.

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Anonymizeruk Offline




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Posted: June 05 2003, 07:33

From what I know, adding 'deliberate' errors has been a way of copy protection for a fair while (I think they use the same thing on VHS tapes too)

I'm just suprised that my DVD player has better error correction than my HiFi!
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: June 05 2003, 14:37

Quote (Ugo @ June 04 2003, 23:53)
I hear no clicks and no pops on any of them.

You might not, but some people do - take a look at some of the problems discussed on the Amarok mailing list, there are at least two people there complaining of clicks and pops on TB2003.

Differences in error correction may be subtle, or not there at all - I'm not saying that everyone is going to notice a difference when playing the album in different players, but if people do (and don't notice the same differences between the players when playing other albums) then this may be why. You may also not notice the differences which error correction introduces by listening to the CD on its own, but would do when comparing it to an error-free copy of the audio.

I am indeed referring to those errors introduced as copy protection.
The idea of them, for those wondering what good errors will do, is that there are just enough errors as to not cause a problem to most CD players. Copying the CD at high speed introduces errors into the signal by itself, and the idea is that when they are combined with those already present in the disc, the resulting copy will sound terrible and be full of all kinds of audible artefacts because the player's error correction is no longer able to cope.
Of course, some unlucky people are finding that the error correction is already unable to cope with the errors present from the start. Worse still is that, even with those players which can cope, there's no guarantee that they'll continue to be able to cope when the disc is damaged (as happens to CDs - I find that even the most carefully handled ones tend to pick up minor scratches with regular playing).

It's a known phenomenon that digital errors can change the sound - whether the listener notices them or not will depend on their equipment.
Many recording engineers will favour one brand of digital recording media (i.e. CDR, minidisc or whatever) over others, claiming that it sounds better. This would be seemingly impossible with digital media - the media is just carrying a stream of binary data, and that binary data should sound the same no matter what brand of CDR it's on. The difference is explained by the fact that, because of various differences in manufacture, not every CDR (or whatever kind of media you choose) stores that data as reliably as others, and data recorded to one brand may be less prone to picking up errors than another. The brands which store that data more reliably are likely to be the ones the engineers find sound better (though it may be that they like the sound of error correction and favour a worse brand ;)).
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MO fan Offline




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Posted: June 05 2003, 18:28

I have already bought it, found it would stop on tracks due to copy protection and then took it back for a refund and complained about this whole fiasco!

I will not buy a copy protected CD again.

Cheers MO fan  :D
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44 replies since May 28 2003, 13:52 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

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