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Topic: Tracklisting Released at mikeoldfield.de< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
TubularBelle Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 06:59

I have no doubt I will still love the album, I am just starting to doubt that Mike still enjoys making them.

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qjamesfloyd Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 07:57

Mike loves making music, it's what he does, making music does'nt have to be guitars, bass, drums etc all the time, music is a big thing, and there are so many ways to make music, i don't know why some people are so hard on Mike at times, because he has given so much in his career already, we should be grateful that he continues to do what he does.Lot's of people did'nt like Tres Lunas when it came out, but in the years since it's release people have come to like it a lot more, i always like to give Mike's music a year or 2 before making a true judgement.
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Ricky Bling Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 08:44

I never wanted to be the sort of person who said after being laughed at for liking Mike Oldfield "urr..but only the early stuff" - but that's what has happened. Amarok was the last decent thing he did as far as my ears are concerned (which doesn't make me evil!;) but I bought everything he did anyway.

I will still buy the new one but that will be the last chance I give him. I know what I want from a Mike Oldfield album and this is promising not to deliver it.

In rock star terms my split from Mike is down to musical differences - I don't really get on with euro-bland chill out, he doesn't seem to get on with folky, rocky, bonkers-throw in a couple of geese and dog barking-music any more. If he's after money then his route is the way to go, licence your tracks to a million and one "Now that's what I call chill-out ibiza best album in the world ever" albums. That should pay for sugar cubes for the horse, petrol for the motorbikes, and have you seen the rate of council tax in Chalfont St. Giles? There are plenty more things for me to listen to and Mike wont really give a toss if one person less buys his albums.
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captain cavern Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 08:58

http://www.mikeoldfield.org/news/110805.htm
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MaXiMo Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 09:58

OK. I know we can't judge the album before having it, but if we see what he has done in the last three years and that he has classified the disc "Shade" as a dance disc, we begin to think bad things, don't you know? I've also bought everything he has done because I'm a fan, but It doesn't mean that I like these albums...

Is he doing music just for us? Well, a man who has written albums such as Tubular Bells, Amarok, Ommadawn, Crises (...) wouldn't have to keep writting albums which minimise his musician status... but as you are saying, we CAN'T judge him and his new album before listening to it (I like the two new songs! ). Of course, this is just what I think.


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Moz Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 12:52

Quicksilver: I don't see this as dance music. Maybe music with a dance beat?

There's also the mention of Fruity Loops.  However, I don't recall Mike calling the entire second disc "dance music".  There was a comment that it would be "upbeat", but that doesn't mean it's all dance music.  I wonder if someone could confirm this?


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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 13:23

What a strange thread this has become. What do we have? two poor quality snippets, a fake, and some comments by Mike. The comments by Mike suggest that he's drawing on real life experiences - experiences that have really mattered to him - to inspire his music, and that's what any good artist should do.

Of the two snippets, I find myself with a mixed opinion after several listenings. The one that uses the 'freeing the birds' tune from Maestro seems quite dull; it seems to lack the vitality that the Maestro piece promises, and becomes very repetitious, but I need to reserve judgement until I've heard a good quality version I guess. The other one with the unfamiliar tune I find gentle and lovely. So... 1 out of 2. Who can say what the overall picture will be like based on that?

And why, please tell me, is the use of a computer an indication of laziness? Wind the clock back and imagine the first reactionary responses when people started fitting pickups to guitars and changing the sound electronically. The whole battery of audio development that's been going on for decades could be seen as a slide down towards ever-increasing laziness, if that's the way you want to see it.

30 years ago I used a typewriter to write articles; now I use a computer. Does this make me lazy? No. All it does is give me more control over my writing. If you have the innate ability, you can write a masterpiece with a computer or with a sharp wooden stick dipped in mud (if you have to). What counts is what you have to say, not what you use to say it. And so far, we really don't know very much at all about what Mike has to say, musically, in this new album.
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 13:44

At this point I have to agree utterly with all the optimistic fans who say 'don't judge it until you hear it, it may just turn out to be really rather good'. However it is valid at this point to pass opinion over what we know, and have heard, and what we know doesn't sound great. Ok Mike has never been a great wordsmith so we'll excuse his lousy song descriptions HOWEVER I few things are beyond redemption IMHO. I think even the most hardened, optimistic and open minded fans would have to agree there is something incomparably naff about the idea of sampling a demo song that comes free with your music software. Not only is it naff but at far as someone with MO talent is concerned, highly worrying. You know there would have been a time when the people who wrote those little demo pieces would have blatantly plagiarised Mike and Mike would have said something like 'why can't you do it yourself?' And yet now Mike is now ripping them off!!!! Very, very worrying if you ask me.

Mike is also lifting a lot of music from Tres Lunas and Maestro, which is in itself not the end of the world, the Snow Cave sequence was indeed a great guitar solo and as was said at the time much deserved of an official release. But its the other tracks that he's chosen to lift that don't really inspire me with any confidence. That opening cactus sequence was hardly anything more than a throw away little melody yet he feels its worthy enough of developing?? Surely he can come up with something more original, or obviously not. And its the same for the Maestro music, that end game music was for me the single worse piece of music he has ever put his name to and yet again he thinks its worthy of inclusion in some form. Surely in three and a half years Mike can come up with SOMETHING better???? Though again obviously not.

On another subject what I find horribly, horribly ironic about Mike (and this may well in turn show how hopelessly and pathetically Mike is out of touch) seemingly binning all his wonderful traditional instruments and composing eletronica is that 70's style prog rock is making a huge come back at the moment and bringing with it a return to traditional musicianship. Pink Floyd have just make a glorious comeback, Q magazine's recent prog rock special edition has proved to be one of their most popular and entertaining editions, prog rock is almost, dare I say it, becoming cool again. Whereas dance music and general eletronica has never been more stagnated. Even the really good dance acts like the Chemical Brothers have said they're struggling to come up with anything original. I read a recent interview with Groove Armada where Andy Cato said he was embarrassed by how awful the chill out music scene had become. And yet our old Mike seems to think whatever he's doing is the way ahead. Who does he think exactly is listening? Who is he trying to appeal to? So had Mike made a '70's style' album he would have done gloriously well in every sense. He would have pleased the fans and he would have sold more records, I have no doubt about that in my mind. But of course doing a 70's style record would have meant actually PLAYING traditional instruments, something which obviously appauls Mike as its not 'the future of music', 'cutting edge' or 'forward thinking'.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 13:53

Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 12 2005, 18:44)
there is something incomparably naff about the idea of sampling a demo song that comes free with your music software. Not only is it naff but at far as someone with MO talent is concerned, highly worrying.

You could equally say (before you saw the result) that putting a pair of bicycle handlebars together with a bicycle saddle and calling it a bull's head was a naff idea. But it turned out to be one of Picasso's most daringly brilliant creations.

A great artist can make art out of anything. Kurt Schwitters made great art out of old bus tickets. I'm not saying Mike will succeed this time, because I don't know. But you can't rule something out purely on the basis of being told the materials used.
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 14:03

True but but I'm not sure that painting analogy stands up to any scrutiny. And ok this 'new tune' of Mike's may just turn out to be the best on the album, but as Sir Mustapha pointed out, how worrying would that be? There is sampling and then there is sampling. Successful sampling usually relies on the integrity and atmosphere of the original piece in some way. Fair enough I could understand a 14 kid mucking about at home sampling a software demo track because he can't come up with anything better but this is MO we're talking about.
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Moz Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 14:45

Quote
And why, please tell me, is the use of a computer an indication of laziness? Wind the clock back and imagine the first reactionary responses when people started fitting pickups to guitars and changing the sound electronically. The whole battery of audio development that's been going on for decades could be seen as a slide down towards ever-increasing laziness, if that's the way you want to see it.


I use a computer for most of my composing.  The only instrument I have is a keyboard.

Sometimes I assemble music by recording what I play on the keyboard.  Sometimes I do it all on the PC.  Sometimes both.  Does it matter?

I have never been great at playing, and I find it extremely frustrating when I continually make mistakes as I play.  On the rare occasions that I have played in front of an audience, I've suffered from stage fright because I'm not 100% confident of my abilities.  This is something I could work on, but right now, my skills are firmly based in composing, not performing.

Debussy couldn't play his own music.  He didn't use a PC because they weren't around.  I suspect he might have used a sequencer and/or music notation software to make life easier for himself.  Is that acceptable?

If I don't record myself when improvising, I forget what I played.  I don't hear people having a problem with the recording aspect, but it seems like there is an issue with actually writing the music on a PC.  I've tried putting together a track or two using other people's samples, and they came out OK, but I didn't like the fact that I didn't write any of the samples.  So, I choose to write all of my music myself.  What's wrong with doing that on a PC?  And if I use decent quality SoundFonts, what do you actually lose from the recording?

Remember how Mike covered over the erase head to record multiple instruments for Tubular Bells?  If he'd been able to use a sequencing program on a PC to come up with the same results, it could have been a lot easier for him.  I don't get what specifically people despise about music produced on a PC.  Where do you draw the line?


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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 15:00

I don't think there's really an issue of what is used to record on. I mean Mike's used computers since Earth Moving for recording to. For me its always been an issue of Mike's ability to play to his stregnths rather than his weaknesses. What Mike's genius is for is his ability to get intruments to sing in his hands, not just his guitar playing, every instrument. He has an amazing power and character to his playing that comes through on albums like Amarok that is so unique and individual. I think thats why a lot of us fans who don't like his more eletronic work feel so frustrated with his output in recent years. To my ears an album like Tres Lunas, which isn't entirely without merrit I do enjoy some of it, lacks that individuality. Some fans disagree, fair enough they're hearing things I'm obviously not. Personaly I don't see much indiviuality in using then same beats and wishy washy synth tones as every other chill out artist out there.

As far as Mike is concerned I do sometimes think there much more to it than meets the eye as far as his view towards traditional musicianship is concerned. A once great and principled musician like himself can't get just turn their back traditinal playing to the extent he has with out someting being greatly amiss. Its what that something is we just don't know.
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Holger Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 15:07

I'm looking forward to the album. I think it's great that he tried a new way of working, just FL, who would have thunk that. Using a demo song as the basis for a track - now there's an idea! Can't see why people get so worked up about this - can't you wait with the judgements till you've heard the result?
I think the vocaloids will turn out to be great, too (haven't heard those two tracks so I can't judge yet).
I don't expect I'll love every track on this album, but I'm pretty sure I'll really like some of them, particularly from the "shade" side.

All this negativity from people who haven't heard anywhere near the full album...  :zzz:
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christopher Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 15:11

Well... I can tell you that the first track is "Our Father" recorded from the radio and the second is "Angelique".  Put them on my iPod this morning and went to the gym.  They are good mood pieces.  They are starting to grow on me because if you look back at TSODE and compare it to that time period... it all makes sense and can be appreciated.  

NOW... if I compare it too the fact that Mike showed us in the, yet another remake of TB, that he can still do it, then I am disappointed.  It's all about changing your perception to match the style.  That's what I've had to do.  In doing that I now have a greater appreciation of the new music... so far.  It is beautiful stuff... but to say that Mike can't do better... well I know he can... if only he'd give those bloody computers the boot!!!  

If he is to ever go out with a bang and be concidered one of the greatest songwriters upon his retirement he will have to do something on the scale of Amarok and Tubular Bells at the right time in music history.  That period is coming soon in music.  All the processed shit is leaving and no one is buying like they used to.  His best works will come around again.  

I can tell you that I introduced a bunch of eclectic people here in Nashville, TN, at the local coffee house I hang out at, to Mike's full version of Tubular Bells and they had no idea it was that amazing.  All they knew about were the three minutes used in the Exorcist.  They all wanted to get it.  Of course the version I played them was from the LIVE concert at WEmbley in 83.  It just goes to show you that music is coming back to its roots and Mike's style will come full circle and he must choose the right time to live up to his legendary album of Tubular Bells and Amarok.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 15:42

Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 12 2005, 19:03)
True but but I'm not sure that painting analogy stands up to any scrutiny.

Easy to say, but why? Sculpture or collage is about the meaningful arrangement of materials to produce a given effect, just as music is about the arrangement of sounds. I'm talking about basic principles of artistic creation.
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Sentinel101 Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 15:43

I think L&S will be much better than Tres Lunas which was just a side product of his Virtual Reality phase. What makes me optimistic is that he finally wanted to come back to pure music again.

Now he mentioned that he had a complex work in mind before he decided to go the Chill-Out/Ambient path a little further. I hope that the seed for the complex piece is still in his brain and that it will someday manifest itself in front of our eyes/ears.

Let me speculate: Mike has definitively mastered electronic music now, even the vocals are synthetic. He is at one bound of the possible range. I hope he will now try to meld electronics and traditional music into something new, perhaps something with an orchestral touch and complexity.

We should all have respect for Mike as a musician as he never stopped learning and being curious (just look in the mirror and tell me if you can honestly say this about yourself). He is a real craftsman and I'm sure he has at least one big work in stock.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 15:47

Quote (Holger @ Aug. 12 2005, 20:07)
I think it's great that he tried a new way of working, just FL, who would have thunk that. Using a demo song as the basis for a track - now there's an idea!

Spot on, Holger! That's exactly the open attitude he deserves from us.
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 15:51

Quote (TOBY @ Aug. 12 2005, 20:00)
A once great and principled musician like himself can't get just turn their back traditinal playing to the extent he has with out someting being greatly amiss.

Bob Dylan did exactly that in 1966 and changed the face of rock music completely.
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 16:19

Ok fundamentally Mike is taking bits a pieces of some else's creation and using them as his own. Picasso took bits and pieces of some else's creation and used them as his own. There the analogy works but if you want to look fundamentally enough at anything you'll find parallels, I'm not so sure you can start justifying bad art or in this case music (if indeed it is bad, it may not be) this way. Its easy to give a piece of art or music gravity by comparing it at a fundamental level with another acknowledged great piece of art or artistic idea. I mean Picasso just reinterpreted every day objects around him into his art work and created works of genius. Tracy Emin did the same, do you think her stuff is a work of genius? I don't. Though what they do is fundamentally the same.

As far as music and sampling is concerned its all about the source material. Do you really think its a good sign that one of the greatest musicians and composers of the 20th century is resorting to nicking a riff that a programmer probably flippantly wrote as a software demo? I don't think its a healthy sign at all. It's a sign of someone unable to come up with original stuff themselves. You could easily say DJ's and dance musicians sample stuff all the time, often with great results. But look at WHAT they sample, thats the key.

And anyway DJ's and dance musicians arn't Mike Oldfield. A man who's name was once synonymous with stunning originality.

I'm fully aware that one can sound horribly and overly cynical. I'm fully in agreement that after so many amazing albums Mike should be cut a little slack at this point in his career. My view has always been one of wanting to see Mike do what Mike does best. And maybe this album will contain some such music. I certainly hope so.

ps How on earth did Bob Dylan turn his back on traditional musicianship? He still played the guitar and mouth organ not to mention sang the most important lyrics in rock history.
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Mix Offline




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Posted: Aug. 12 2005, 16:33

I listened to the tracks recorded from the Polish radio, and while "Angelique" left me quite cold, "Our Father" sounded more promising. I think once the album comes out and we get to hear it properly, the gradual build-up in the latter will probably sound much better - as will the choir part. Sounds much better than most of Tres Lunas in my ears, anyway.

But I really hope this album will mark the end in Mike's wanderings in the "chill-out" genre. It would be time to change course once again, and just MAYBE it will be something in the vein of those longer "complex" works...

Mike has said in the past that he doesn't listen to his own music at all. I wonder if he simply has forgotten the pearls he put out in the 70s and 80s?  :D I wish Mike parked his motorcycles and locked himself up in his studio with...

- Ommadawn
- Taurus 2
- Platinum
- Crises
- The Wind Chimes
( many other examples could be picked here )

... and get inspiration from there. In everyone of those recordings there is tremendous amount of individual creativity and personal touch that - to me - seems to have been lacking in past 15 years... OR perhaps he could try out his wings in the style of "Mont St. Michel"? I don't know if that can be classified as "classical music" or not but I don't care either. It is a beautiful mood piece and also shows that he could create wonders in soundtracks if he was offered suitable projects, and put his mind and effort into it.
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