Tubular.net :: Mike Oldfield Forums Discussion, news, reviews, fan music, and more.
	Search :: Members :: Help :: Guidelines

Pages: (2) < [1] 2 > [ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 18 2001, 19:24 Hi all. I noticed, as probably most of you did , that a theme in HR Part 1 is reprised in Part 2. I am talking about the starting theme, the one called "Drone" in the Amarok Player tracklist for HR. This is played again on an oboe in part 2, starting approximately at 5'46''. This reprise is called "Ocarina Reprise" in the same Amarok Player tracklist I mentioned above, but it is NOT a reprise of the theme that is called "Ocarina" in the tracklist, i.e. the starting theme of Part 2. What I'd like to ask you is: does this happen only in HR, or is there another MO album where a theme is reprised in another part of the composition? Obviously I'm not talking about the two songs on Incantations, built on the same melody, or about the multiple reprises of themes in Amarok, but simply about themes that recur more than once on different sides of the same LP. I know that is is not a question that a devoted MO fan should ask , but since I'm a musician, and since I know that the reprise of themes is a main feature of classical symphonies, I'd like an answer to this, to check out how much Mike's long works are close to the structure of the classical symphony or suite. PS: All of the above comments on HR refer to the original LP mix, which I listened to on a CD that a friend of mine made for me. I haven't listened to the 'common' HR for more than three months [and I'm not willing to check it out right now... ] and so I don't really know if the reprise I'm talking about is also there. If it's there, please ignore this PS. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

tubularbills Group: Members Posts: 528 Joined: Aug. 2000 Posted: Jan. 18 2001, 20:58 In Tubular Bells 3 there is a reprise. "The Source of Secrets" begins the album, and then there is "Secrets" towards the end. Although it's not really called Secrets Reprise, it really still is one. Its not exactly like the first track, but carries the same melody, notes, beats, etc... That's the only other one i can think of at the moment, but i'm sure there are more out there. -------------- Terrible, Wonderful, Crazy, Perfect. Back to top

Korgscrew Group: Super Admins Posts: 3511 Joined: Dec. 1999 Posted: Jan. 18 2001, 21:41 There's that theme which is common to Orabidoo and Taurus 2 (don't remember the exact times, but I'm sure someone will know what I mean). Does that count? Back to top

TimHighfield Group: Members Posts: 543 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Jan. 18 2001, 22:34 Orabidoo: around 7.00 (also 7.50-8.33) Taurus 2: around 2.00 (also 2.18-3.03) This is data from the Complete Reference Guide on this site, I haven't checked it yet. -Tim- Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 19 2001, 09:28 Oh well... When I finished posting my initial message, I immediately thought: surely someone will tell me about Secrets and TII/Orabidoo. Sorry, they don't count as reprises, 'cause they're exact duplications of the themes. To better clarify the issue, I'll explain that with the term "reprise" I meant a replaying of a theme on different instruments than the first time: in the ouverture of The Italian Girl in Algiers, by Rossini, the first main theme is presented by a flute and an oboe, then it is "reprised" near the end on a pennywhistle [sort-of... ] together with the bassoon. In HR, the first theme is presented on keyboards, then guitars, then climaxes on trumpets. But then in Part II only an oboe plays it. That's why this counts as a "reprise" and the themes you mentioned don't count as such... Hope I've made myself clearer... -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 19 2001, 09:31 Oh, and by the way: I was talking about reprises in the same piece; TSOS/Secrets and TII/Orabidoo are couplings of two different compositions, altough they are on the same album... -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

TimHighfield Group: Members Posts: 543 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Jan. 19 2001, 09:51 So, Ugo, do you mean parts of pieces like Tubular Bells Part One or the like when one theme comes and goes and then reappears later on on another instrument (or not)? Because Ommadawn Part One is a lot like this. But I'm not sure if this is what you are getting at. -Tim- The new edit (30 seconds later): Sorry, sorry, reread your first post Ugo. DIFFERENT SIDES. So basically themes that reprised in either Tubular Bells Part One and Part Two, Hergest Ridge Part One and Part Two, Ommadawn Part One and Part Two, etc, etc. I hope. Oh, I'm still confused. -Tim- (again) Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 19 2001, 16:46 Quote So basically themes that reprised in either Tubular Bells Part One and Part Two, Hergest Ridge Part One and Part Two, Ommadawn Part One and Part Two, etc, etc. I hope. Yes, this is exactly what I mean. But I don't think that the reprise happens in other MO albums than HR. If someone can prove me wrong, I'd be SO happy about it. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

tubularbills Group: Members Posts: 528 Joined: Aug. 2000 Posted: Jan. 19 2001, 21:03 I GOT IT! Ok, the following albums DO have a Reprise on them! Tubular Bells 2, The Songs of Distant Earth, and Voyager. And oddly enough, the Reprise is in the same spot on all of them It's on the cover! REPRISE RECORDS!!!!!!!! sorry, i couldn't help myself. -------------- Terrible, Wonderful, Crazy, Perfect. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 22 2001, 17:51 Oh well, Tubularbills... You're in the USA. I'm in Italy... Of course you have Reprises on MO CDs. But also on Eric Clapton CDs, Frank Sinatra CDs, etc. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 22 2001, 17:58 More seriously.... I thought this matter over, during the last few days. I realized that, of course, MO made no other extended compositions (featuring more than one part) after Incantations. [I don't think that TB2 is divided in parts... ]. So my original question is only reduced to two pieces: Ommadawn and Incantations. PLEASE somebody tell me that a theme from one side of Ommadawn or Inc. is reprised somewhere else in the same album.... PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE!!!!!! -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

TimHighfield Group: Members Posts: 543 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Jan. 29 2001, 05:39 Hmmm... After using my newly-downloaded Amarok Player on my Ommadawn CD, I noticed something that might be relevant here: Majestic Reprise- Side One: 11.05.05 (after various Majestic sections) Majestic Reprise- Side Two: 07.07.32 The parts do sound very similar. Is this what you're looking for Ugo? -Tim- BTW, this was a great question, Ugo. It gave me the opportunity to listen to Ommadawn again and again for a specific purpose, as opposed to listening to Ommadawn again and again with any real reason behind it. Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 29 2001, 07:04 WELL DONE, TIM!! YOU FINALLY FOUND ONE!! And even if the reprise you mentioned is only five notes [that's ALL of the Majestic theme in Ommadawn... ] and it's barely heardable...it's however a reprise exacly as I mean it! Congrats!! -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

TimHighfield Group: Members Posts: 543 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Jan. 29 2001, 07:41 Phew, I think I'll have to listen to something other than Ommadawn for a while now. That's now two reprises: one in Hergest Ridge and one in Ommadawn. Now, can anyone find any in Incantations? (I'm afraid I can't help you with this one, I don't have this album). -Tim- Back to top

Rob Miles Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: Nov. 1999 Posted: Jan. 29 2001, 15:50 Hello everyone Actually, depending on how you define 'reprise', there are quite a few discrete ones on either side of Ommadawn, but there are another two which transcend the flip. Firstly, there's the four note motive dah-di-dah dom which you get on both sides, and also on HR and Amarok. Secondly, there's a theme from the choir section at the end of Part One which is repeated much slower (and on tubular bells) in the tormented section at the start of part two. If you consider albums to be discrete pieces of work, there's plenty of reprises. For example, if you consider QE2 to be a part of Taurus 1, the two pieces share many themes and are similarly structure- in fact, QE2 could almost be seen as a rewritten version of Taurus 1. Even Discovery has a 'reprise' from 'To France' in 'Talk about your life' on side two. But that's not what you're talking about is it? Rob Who is kicking himself that he didn't see this thread earlier. :-)? Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Jan. 29 2001, 19:49 Rob...congrats to you for your fine ears. But you're right...that's not what I'm talking about. The reprises you mention are in two different pieces of music. What I am looking for is a reprise IN THE SAME PIECE, i.e. TB Part One and Two, HR Part One and Two etc. Amarok does not count for this because it's only one part, although somebody says it's 52 parts... Anyway, you got my "reprise" definition right, and this pleases me. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Dervish_D Group: Members Posts: 53 Joined: Feb. 2001 Posted: Feb. 05 2001, 18:50 "Five miles out - title track" = "Taurus 2 - intro" "Incantations Part one" beginning flutes = "Incantantions Part four" vibraphone --->same theme Tubular Bells Part 2 --->Can best be heared around 3rd minute banjo, is nearly the same as Part one minute 15:00 e.g Hergest Ridge Part 2 -->repetitive end of "Thunderstorm"= Tubular Bells Part 2 14:30-14:50 well... forget the others but Incantations and TB... Damn... goin´ to spend my night listing to all of them... Back to top

TimHighfield Group: Members Posts: 543 Joined: Oct. 2000 Posted: Feb. 05 2001, 18:59 Dervish D- you're right, but not in the context we're looking for. As has been said in this topic already, we're looking for reprises in the same piece but in different parts (ie HR parts 1 and 2). Five Miles Out and Taurus II are different pieces on the same album (we've already had the same argument about Taurus II and Orabidoo). Sorry, -Tim- Back to top

Ugo Group: Members Posts: 5495 Joined: April 2000 Posted: Feb. 05 2001, 19:02 Sorry, Dervish_D...it's two different tracks. Please re-read my original post. -------------- Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian Back to top

Sir Mustapha Group: Musicians Posts: 2802 Joined: April 2003 Posted: Mar. 27 2004, 20:24 Sorry to be reviving such an old thread, but I can't believe it took so much effort to come up with some examples. I completely understood your definition of "reprise", and I can proudly say that Incantations has LOADS of them. Some examples: Part 1, somewhere around 9:41 - choirs, chanting "Diana, Luna, Lucina"... ... equals... ... Part 2, somewhere around 6:00 - guitar over creepy violins! Part 1, very beginning - female "aaaah"s... ... equals... ... Part 3, somewhere around 9:18 - synthesizers, one in each channel! Part 1, somewhere around 0:39 - fast, complicate flute melody... ... equals... ... Part 4, somewhere around 1:45 - multi-layered vibraphone! (as has been mentioned above) Part 1, somewhere around 2:38 - simple, guitar melody... ... equals... ... Part 4, somewhere around 0:43 - high piano! And all without counting the quick, 6-note arpeggios all over the place! Okay, now, I'll leave the thread along. R.I.P. -------------- Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds. Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com Back to top

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ] Pages: (2) < [1] 2 >

Forums | Links | Instruments | Discography | Tours | Articles | FAQ | Artwork | Wallpapers
Biography | Gallery | Videos | MIDI / Ringtones | Tabs | Lyrics | Books | Sitemap | Contact


Mike Oldfield Tubular.net