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Topic: The Guardian interview< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Olivier Offline




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Posted: Aug. 04 2003, 21:08

Mike did a short interview with The Guardian on Jul 31. He dismisses complaints from fans over copy protection as being because they want to pirate the album and can't. The fans disagree...
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Aug. 04 2003, 22:03

I think I've already made my point clear elsewhere. Come on Mike, that wasn't a clever thing to say about your fans, was it?
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FastRobPlus
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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 00:57

Ironically, TB 2003 is the only CD I've bought recently.  And really, it's just out of tradition (I've bought all of Oldfield's recordings.)  Now that broadband exists, I tune into Internet radio to hear the "hits" and scour the net for all the other amazing music that you'll never otherwise find.  Band sites like www.massivehabit.com and www.pressplayontape.com give you many of thier sample songs for free, and if only like one or two, keep them!  They are fine with this.  If you like several songs, order the CD direct from them and have the satisfaction of supporting folks who are seemingly beneath the notice of giant record companies.  
I truly think the era of record labels fabricating an "artist" and slapping together 47:00 of music - only 9:00 of which you like has come to a close - and not due to piracy.  
That's the 50% reduction in revenue that Oldfield cites.
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Vinz Offline




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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 03:55

I think that fans do buy Mike's albums !
But the complains were that they can't transfere the CD on their mp3 player or can't play it in their car, that's all...
There must be a misunderstanding...


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http://www.tubular.free.fr/tubular.php
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EpesiK
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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 06:32

Composers and musicians like Mike benefit from the Internet. Sure, there are people who download all the albums and are happy to get them for free, but on the whole I'm sure the sales have gone up. There is so much music that I wouldn't have heard of if it wasn't for the Internet. Promotion on the Net is crucial for all artists who work outside mainstream media, everyone knows that (except Mike who lives happily in his bubble). Pop music is a different matter. I have a teenage sister who listens to all the usual teeny crap, and she never buys any CD:s. Usually there is some bloke at school who downloads the latest Westlife CD (or Eminem, or Britney, or whatever) and distributes copies to everyone else (and before I moved out she pestered me all the time with requests about this and that). There's where the money dissappears.

I admit that I have a LOT of music that I haven't payed for, but technically the record companies have benefited from me downloading MP3:s because I'm buying much more records than I would have done if there was no Internet. That's a fact.
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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 06:49

I have sent an E-Mail to mikeoldfield.org about the article, in the hope that they are Mike become aware of the true reason why this copy protection is such a big issue. There really is nothing I can say about this that has not already been said, except that ripping music onto my hard drive, listining to it myself, burning compliation CDs for myself and copying CDs to take on holiday so I don't lose the original do NOT make me a pirate.

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Thank-you for helping us help you help us all.
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maria Offline




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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 07:11

i also stated my opinion about that interview somewhere else on this board and i'll just add that it was very surprising to find out his reaction to that question. just some days before we had had the chance to read another (nice) interview of him and sincerely while reading the guardian's one i had kind'an image of dr. jekyll and mr. hyde...
far from pleasant if u ask me.

i felt myself silly just thinking i have bought all his stuff, vinyl collection, plus cd collection, plus almost all the videos, plus some dvds, plus mvr, plus concerts, plus... and i'm sure that everyone's who's usually here must have spent at least the same money than me in his music (and it's really annoying for me to speak about money in this place), then, we are not supporting piracy, just our consumer's right, when one pays for something, the most fair right is getting what u have paid for with the only aim of enjoying it. it's nothing against him, just against this stupid system that seems to be only useful for the ones who design it i think.

hope he does realize this is not against him, but for that he should think and speak from himself, (as he has also been damaged by this matter) not, as i said before, like through the company's mouth. and if this company doesn't treat him as he deserves, then imho he should look for another one that really cares for art, not just for money.

it's really sad the fact that something so wished (by him as an artist) has become an absurd like this. i'd say he hasn't been lucky this time, i'd say he's also a victim (maybe the main one) of this problem around the copy protection. what he wanted more, he most beloved work polished and performed with a lot of love thirty years later, may have become a nightmare for him. but then, mike, don't throw your anger to the people who have always supported u.


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...morning and evening i'm flying, i'm dreaming...
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Blue Dolphin Offline




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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 11:09

I just bought the new Kraftwerk "Tour de France 2003" single. This is also Copy-Protected (as well as their new album). Actually, it says Copy-Controlled on the cd. It also says on the back on which computers and equipment you can play it.

***
Playable on: CD / DVD-V / DVD-A / SACD / Players etc. etc.

Computer: minimal of: PC MS Windows 95, Pentium 2, 233 MHz, 64 Mb Ram+ / Mac OS 8.6-9 etc. etc.
***

But here it gets interesting. Under these warnings it says:

"Playback problems may be encountered on some equipment"


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-The mark of a good musician is to play one note and mean it-

Mike Oldfield - 1980
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Nacho Offline




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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 17:59

I agree with the majority of statements above. Surely, Mike is not aware what Warner has done to his TB2003. It is simply a crime to put the CD or whatever it is in your computer, and that the really annoying Warner Player makes those pauses between tracks. Warner has destroyed your work, Mike, and you should be so demanding, as you always has been about the technical imperfections, both in records and live shows. :(
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Man In The Rain Offline




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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 18:36

I only have one other copy-controlled CD apart from TB2003, and its Big Beautiful Sky by Venus Hum.

On my expensive modern hi-fi, it skips halfway track 6 to track 7.

Copy-control is the record companies getting arse-about-face and not realising that people are turning to mp3 because of inadequate promotion of artists, and the ridiculous overcharging of CDs in stores. I recently saw RHCP's By The Way in an HMV sale - the sticker said 'Sale £12.99'. I couldn't believe it! The companies have ripped off the consumer for long enough. Mike is completely inaccurate in the 'statistics' he quotes and I feel that his lack of knowledge and understanding in this area has not stopped him spouting his mouth off like an idiot. Apart from that, Mike still rules!


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Hergest Ridge 165 - Ommadawn 038 - Incantations 243
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Henrik Hoffsten
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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 18:38

Nacho, I agree full - couldn't say it better myself!

I just want to add that some people don't own a cd-player, just a cd-rom, and that is nice to listen to music in cars, but some car-stereos can't handle the copy protection. Why then destroy for the buyers, isn't that right that they can LISTEN to what they have BOUGHT?? If the are pirates would they buy it then?? - No!

If warner think they will sell more cd's beacuse the copy protection, I think they have wrong:
- First, Tubular Bells was available on Internet weeks before the release (like all new albums and movies, Terminator 3 was downloadable many weeks ago, there is nothing anyone can do about it).
- Second: The one who buy a copy proteced cd, and get problem playing it, do you think he/she will buy onther copy protected cd? I think NOT! So then you want sell any cd's at all. Think again Warner...
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Henrik Hoffsten
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Posted: Aug. 05 2003, 19:12

Right Man In The Rain...

Did forget to say, if you want a copy of Tubular Bells 2003, do as I did, order the un copy protected from Canada
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TheManIsBack Offline




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Posted: Aug. 06 2003, 05:54

Hey, why are you fans so sensible?

That bullshit about Jekyll and mr.Hyde ...

I don't think Mike said anything rude at all in the interview.

I have always claimed that fans on this webbside pay too little attention to the music, and too much to stuff like album covers, copy protection, games, etc ... Really silly.

Someone even said he could HEAR the copy protection on TB2003... what kind of crap is that!?!?!? The record sounds crystal clear on my stereo. And I certainly can play it on the computer as well.
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 06 2003, 08:25

So thats OK then is it??????? It's OK for you so therefore it must OK for everyone else??????????

For the umpteenth time, I paid I fair amount of money for TB2003 and I can't play it on my perfectly good phillips CD player, so thats OK is it? It's OK for the CD to actualy break other peoples CD players is it? You think we should sit back and swallow it all do you?????? Your comments are spectacularly ignorant and as far as I'm concerned fairly offensive considering how completely lacking in any understanding you sound and yet you're more than willing to put everyone else here down.

So yes 'The Man' I can hear all to clearly the sound of copy protection on TB2003, it sounds like the sweet sound of nothingness coming out of my speakers. I would pay attention to the music 'The Man' if only I could.

If you want to be stupid enough to put up with corporate bullshit then feel free to do so, the rest of us here certainly don't .  I mean have you really read carefully through the complaints and arguements put forward by Korgscrew and everbody else on this website? And your conclusion is that we're all "really silly"?????????????????????

Oh well what can you do.
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merlin2k1 Offline




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Posted: Aug. 06 2003, 09:48

All this wanking over nothing, my CC protected cd went into my Imac, ripped and burned just like everthing else so that I had a copy to play in the car instead of risking a $25 orginal.  I don't and won't share it on the net.  So for me this disk works just like any other, fine.  I can see Mikes side of this clearly though he's just protecting his investment.  Like locking the doors to your house when you leave, you want everything to be there when you come back!

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maria Offline




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Posted: Aug. 06 2003, 10:30

Quote (TheManIsBack @ Aug. 06 2003, 05:54)
That bullshit about Jekyll and mr.Hyde ...

I don't think Mike said anything rude at all in the interview.

did i call him rude? i don't think so, it's your own interpretation, i meant he seemed to be another person when asked about that issue, i found him a bit scared and on the defensive when asked about his fans reaction for the copy protection. just said that imho he chose the easiest path answering like someone on warner would have done. it's the way i saw it and explained my reasons to say so.

Quote
Someone even said he could HEAR the copy protection on TB2003... what kind of crap is that!?!?!? The record sounds crystal clear on my stereo. And I certainly can play it on the computer as well.

it's very nice from u that u just care for the good sound in your equipment. as yours is ok, everything's ok... u are very lucky while a lot of other people have had serious problems with theirs. well, everywhere there's always someone who just care for the own navel, yes, that's nice, chap.
the fact is that the "silly" matter about copy protection is making that something sold to all of us like the definitive and perfect performing of tubular bells has become maybe the opposite to what we had expected after so many months reading how mike had played it with tonnes of love. tubular bells 2003 is performed with a lot of care and love, i do know that, but the copy protection, in most of the cases, just let one appreciate a quarter of a half of its potential. and that's a pity for us and also for mike, that's why i said he's the main victim and i think we have to speak against that because it's the only way to change things.

Quote
I have always claimed that fans on this webbside pay too little attention to the music, and too much to stuff like album covers, copy protection, games, etc ... Really silly.

if i were like u, i'd also say that's a big bulls... oh well, i'll try to not going to that level... i don't feel i have to defend why i'm here, not for his face, u can be sure. copy protection is something important for music as far as it doesn't let one fully enjoy the music. and that's the case with tb2003, don't u see that??? if we all are speaking and complaining here is because we love music and what we have had through this copy protected recording is music that's right, but not music as we have always had. do u find normal the fact that one, before playing a cd for which has paid a considerable amount of money, has to cross fingers and pray asking for a right playing or even, to find the player in the same conditions as it was before putting the cd in? i don't find this is fair. that's why i find all this matter like a big absurd... it's unbelievable that something like this is happening. they know this doesn't stop pirates. it just affects normal people who spend their money in music to enjoy it. pirates have a lot of tools to find out how to pirate music and as i said above, also affects to artists. mike himself has been a victim of this barefaced business, cause imo wea has ruined tubular bells 2003. so simple like this, even when it plays perfectly in your own equipment.

consumers have the right to speak, it's nothing personal against any artist. don't get so nervous, mike is still mike and his music is still his music, but i'm not going to accept everything they want to give me, i want to receive what i'm paying for. if u want to soak up all the bullshit (oops.. at last i fell to the rude level, sorry) the music "business" people want to give u, it's up to u. u are their man, people like u is what they need for growing.

relax and enjoy the afternoon.


to merlin2k1,
when i buy a cd i don't want to make anything else than to put it in any of my players and enjoy the music. i've always bought his records and played them carefully, i've even bought some twice when they were too old. i don't mind spending money in music but i can't stand anyone wants to rip me off (and i'm not meaning mike himself in case any wonder). that's all.
i can understand mike wants to protect his work, that's fair, but now he may have realized that, at least the system used by warner was bad for his music as it is an obstacle for a lot of people to enjoy what he wanted us to enjoy. that's why i said, maybe as a lot of people have stated before here, he should look for another company that cares more for his work.


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...morning and evening i'm flying, i'm dreaming...
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 06 2003, 12:37

To Merlin2k1. Like I said above it's fine for the minority who have no problem playing TB2003 but be honest chap if you paid 15 bucks for it only to find the CD either didn't play properly or, like in my case, not at all on your CD player you'd be pretty pissed off to put it mildly wouldn't you? So it's slightly more than 'wanking over nothing' wouldn't you say? Or are you just not at all bothered about how the rest of us feel? It certainly doesn't sound like it.

If this is all about Mike protecting his investment he's come out of it spectacularly badly. A large percentage of people (out of the few who actualy bought it) have quite rightly taken their copies of TB2003 back and Mike's relationship with his fans let alone the rest of the record buying public has been strained massively as a result.

I really can't believe there are people out there including Mike who are so staggeringly ignorant they're willing to open their mouths before engaging their brains.
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Blue Dolphin Offline




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Posted: Aug. 06 2003, 13:26

Now, no personal attacks to eachother please. Remember what you agreed on when you joined this forum.

Everyone can have his fair opinion, but no rudeness please.

People now ARE complaining instead of talking about Michael's music, that's right. Oke, I know this is a serious situation (breaking CD/DVD players).

Did any of those who had their players broken actually sued Warner or something? Because you all can complain here and sit but you have to get your money back (for a new player)!


--------------
-The mark of a good musician is to play one note and mean it-

Mike Oldfield - 1980
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TOBY Offline




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Posted: Aug. 06 2003, 14:57

People are getting so wound up because all in all this is a serious situation the effects everyone and there seems to be an insinuation by a few who contribute here that we're making a fuss about nothing. This is the one situation were it would really help if people united instead of thinking purely about themselves. As Korgscrew has said alsewhere the copy protection issue can only get worse if we do nothing about it.

Of course we're complaining what do you expcet us to do? I think some fans need to get a grip on reality a bit if they have the attitude that Mike Oldfield can do no wrong. I'm making a guess here but I would probably say that literaly thousands of people have returned TB2003, now I don't know about you but I would say, speaking as a concerned fan, thats a pretty bad situation and he seems to be staggeringly ignorant as to the reasons why. Lets not forget he basicaly said that those few fans who are complaining are doing so purely because thay can't pirate it, which for me as someone who couldn't even play the bloody CD is pretty offensive.

The other thing that kind of pisses me off about this whole thing, and it would certainly piss me off massively if I were the owners of this site, is that there is a huge amount of effort put into selling Mike's records via Tubular.net. Just look at all the links on the front page to Amazon and other places to buy Mike's records, I wonder how many records he's sold as a result of people going through this site? Quite a few I would say and thats not to mention the other things Tubular.net has contributed to in his professional life. And what do we fans get as a reward? A slap in the face from WEA certainly but I'd be hard pushed to think of anything directly from Mike, and now these remarks.

If he doesn't give a shit I'm not sure I do anymore.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: Aug. 06 2003, 20:28

Something Mike should also worry about is not just the people who complain, but the people who stay silent. We know there have been people returning the album, some will have made a noise about it, most won't have done, but there'll be figures to account for them anyway. What can only be guessed at is how many people didn't buy the album at all when they saw/heard it was copy protected.

To a certain extent, it's understandable that Mike may not want to take much of an interest in what happens in the fan community. He is a professional musician, however, and must therefore be a businessman as well (or have someone manage the business for him) - he has to consider his image amongst the record buyers, as that's where his money is coming from, and the fact that he's signed to a major record label suggests that he probably still does care about money (or at least popularity, and his image is important there too). Making low remarks about your employer's customers (which is the relationship fans have to him) is not a good idea, as if the customers get annoyed, the company is likely to suffer lost sales, at which point you may find yourself out of employment (especially when relying on them to renew a contract).

I appreciate that intellectual property should be protected (though we should think twice when talking of Mike's intellectual property - for many albums, it's entirely the record company's property, though in this case, the sound recording is owned by Warner, the music jointly by Oldfield Music Ltd and EMI), but I don't see how that's happening here. Plenty of people have been able to copy the album - the pirate copies are now on sale in various parts of the world, the MP3s have been on the internet since the day the album first hit the shops, and anyone who is determined to make pirate copies and actually is stopped by the copy protection (it would be a fairly undetermined pirate who was - anyone wanting to make 50 copies is going to get fed up with fiddling around with workarounds far less easily than an innocent buyer who just wants to play the thing) can just order one without copy protection from Canada anyway, so all it's doing is irritating European record buyers.

I found that, when I heard Tubular Bells 2003, it seemed to lack the warmth of his previous albums...something slightly cheapened in the high end (though let me make clear, I'm not saying it sounded 'cheap' by any means, just lacking that elusive something up there). This could be down to all sorts of things (especially that it was a different player to my usual, so it may have been the D/A convertors in there), but until I hear a version that's not been corrupted (strangely, I've felt no rush to hear the album again...), I'd not like to rule out the possibility that it wasn't as a result of there being a higher rate of interpolations (i.e. parts where the player has calculated what ought to be in a section where the data has been deliberately messed up) than usual. I'd really have to hear the album again, and compare a copy protected disc side by side with a non copy protected one, in the same player, to be able to tell for sure, though.

I'll not respond to some of the other comments here, as it feels like people might be trying to stir up a reaction (either that or people are forgetting that other users have feelings which should be considered, and that people are especially likely to get offended over a topic such as this one where emotions run high). I really should say though, that referring to the contents of another person's post as 'bullshit' is especially inconsiderate, and I really hope that we can raise things above that kind of level here.
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