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Topic: TB 2003 DVD-A, No surround, just 2 channel PCM 48k< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Mandragore Offline




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Posted: April 15 2004, 20:10

I have the DVD-A and I play it on my new Marantz DV6400 SACD/DVD-A player. Unfortunately, it doesn't play anything besides 2 channel PCM 48k tracks :(

On my previous Pioneer DVD-V player it played the DD/DTS tracks. While it wasn't 5.1 DVD-A, I could still enjoy the surround mix. Now I can't get my new player to play any surround mix. Even when I select the surround playlist and use the correct setup (IMO) on the player and receiver.

Could this be yet another form of copy protection?

BTW, I can play other SACD and DVD-A discs without problems with analog 5.1.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: April 16 2004, 03:52

I very much doubt it's copy protection related. The disc is watermarked, but that shouldn't be causing this.

Both DVD-A and SACD have 'copy protection' built into the system with the fact that manufacturers aren't allowed to provide a digital output on the players for the high resolution content (though some provide a proprietary digital interface for connecting player to amplifier). There is also currently no way of reading either kind of disc in a computer (though I've heard of plans for software to allow DVD-A playback on Windows PCs) - another measure to stop duplication.

There should be nothing stopping you playing the multichannel high resolution content - if it doesn't work when everything's set up the same as when you've played other multichannel DVD-A discs, I'd assume that there's some kind of fault with the disc that your player doesn't like (bad authoring?). I haven't heard of anyone else having this problem, so I'd have to assume that it's something unique to your player/disc.
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Mandragore Offline




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Posted: April 19 2004, 02:04

Thanks!

I knew about the digital output protection and I use 6 analogue interlinks for SACD and DVD-A. Now, I'm not sure what to do. I ordered and received the box with the TB II and III Live DVD's and the TB2003 DVD-A through Play.com somewhere some months ago. And I've only been able to play SACD and DVD-A since last week when my new setup was delivered and installed.

So I guess it's a bit late to complain about the disc and return the whole box. I'll contact Play.com and explain the situation. Maybe they understand. The DVD-A is useless at the moment.

What do people think of the SACD version? I might buy that version instead.
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Korgscrew Offline




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Posted: April 19 2004, 03:44

Well, it's obviously not the same as Tubular Bells 2003, but I like the SACD of Tubular Bells very much. Some complain that the four channel surround mix (in case you didn't know already, the mix featured is Phil Newell's quadraphonic mix from 1975, as found on Boxed) lays all the mistakes rather bare in comparison to the stereo mix. I don't find this to be so, though it can depend on speaker positioning (if the surrounds are too far round to the rear, the separation can sound very stark).
The sound quality is good - I think I'd perhaps even say that the quality of the multichannel mix is a little better than the stereo one, no doubt due to it having been made by a more experienced engineer. The stereo version sounds good too - still with its imperfections of course, but probably about as good a sounding version as will ever be released (and an improvement in terms of detail over the HDCD edition - not as stunning a difference as with some SACDs, which could well be down to the source material, or, if I may put the cat among the pigeons, perhaps because it was made from a PCM rather than DSD master...).

I say it's well worth a try, perhaps not instead of, but certainly as well as the Tubular Bells 2003 DVD-A. I think I'd go so far as to say that the SACD multichannel mix is my current favourite version of Tubular Bells.
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Mandragore Offline




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Posted: April 20 2004, 17:22

Ok, thanks again for explaining!
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Mandragore Offline




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Posted: May 04 2004, 02:48

Well, there is a breakthrough. It is somewhat complicated and I discovered it only by accident.

Once I choose "repeat all" while playing (the surround playlist in stereo) and then select "top menu" on the On Screen Display, I get the DD 5.1 mix through the optical cable.

Wow, what a beautiful experience! Hearing TB2003 in surround with "DPL IIx music" activated on the receiver over my 7 identical monitor speakers is quite something. I don't need to tell those of you who already heard it, but for me this mix is reference material for my 7.1 set. Amongst others it clearly shows (off) how the bells and the bass guitar in the "intro" track turn circles around the listening position. And what about the "finale" track. The glockenspiel sounding delicately way above my head and somewhat behind me and the "TUBULAR BELLS" at the end. Goosebumps!

But, without the "repeat" workaround I still only get stereo. I also managed to get the DTS 5.1 working twice, but I'm not sure which steps to follow to reproduce that.

Unfortunately, I've not been able to "find" the DVD-A surround mix. Could someone tell me what kind of signal their player produce with the (equivalant of) the "audio" select function on the DVD-A player? The "Rumours" DVD-A by Fleetwood Mac produces a LPCM 5.1 signal during playback of the surround mix.
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LivingForever Offline




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Posted: May 04 2004, 10:58

If you are using 'DPL II Music' which I assume is short for 'Dolby Pro-Logic' then you're not hearing the surround mix at all, but rather a fake surround version of the stereo mix...

James


--------------
http://giggingforever.blogspot.co.uk
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Mandragore Offline




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Posted: May 05 2004, 07:11

No, I wasn't clear. I now know how to receive a DD 5.1 (and sometimes a DTS 5.1) signal from the DVD-A player. I can listen to it over the optical cable and over the 5.1 analoge cables. Although the digital output is much clearer and more defined. When the receiver setting is on "auto", he detects those signals correctly.

With the DD 5.1 signal I have the option to turn on DD EX and DPL IIx music. DPL IIx is a further development of DPL II. One improvement is the use of 7.1 speakers. Since I have 7.1 speakers I gave it a try and it sounds good. But I can still listen to discrete 5.1 over "just" 5.1 speakers if I want.

With the DTS 5.1 signal I can turn on DTS ES or the NEO:6 music mode.

Thus far the DPL IIx music mode offers the best experience. It fills the room with music and offers a more defined surround experience. You can tell the difference with the glockenspiel. At one point they sound as if coming from behind and over your head. With 7.1, the two rear surround speakers take care of that instead of the two side surrounds. That gives more air and space between all the different instruments. The same goes for the tubular bells at the end of the finale track.

BTW, I use 7 identical monopoles 100 watt 8 Ohm speakers. They are capable of 0.05 - 20 kHz. So no tiny satellites or diffuse dipoles.
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Mandragore Offline




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Posted: July 10 2004, 22:35

Another lucky discovery :laugh:

I finally know how to play the DVD-A track. I stumbled upon the solution by accident. Of course it was very simple once it presented itself ;)

One night I finished playing my Dark Side Of The Moon SACD and I swapped it for TB2003. But before I was ready to do my DD 5.1 work around, it had already started in 5.1 instead of 2.0. I also noticed the different positioning of the instruments in the intro and the reversed rotating of the bells and the bass guitar, compared to the DD 5.1 track.

This must be the DVD-A I thought. And after checking the audio signal on the player, it was confirmed; PPCM 5.1, 48k :D

How was this possible all of a sudden? Well, I have to switch my reciever to 7.1 mode for SACD and DVD-A. It is clear that I usually enter a disc first (and press play), before I switch the receiver. But now the receiver already was in 7.1 mode when the disc was loaded. That was it!

This isn't a requirement with any other SACD/DVD-A in my collection, except TB2003. It seems my player needs the receiver to be in 7.1 mode before the player-receiver combination plays this disc as PPCM 5.1 DVD-A.

Now I could also compare the different tracks. For now I favour the clear DD 5.1 track (over a coaxial digital interlink) in combination with DPL IIx on the reciever to spread it over 7.1. This is a real good surround experience.

The DVD-A track seems a bit more detailed except it sounds somewhat "fluffier". I have to crank up the volume a few dB's in general with DVD-A and SACD. Otherwise they don't sound as clear as DVD and CD. I guess it has something to do with the analog path and/or cables.

Another problem is that my side surround speakers stand right beside me. And my receiver can't work it's DPL IIx magic in 7.1 mode where it only receives 5.1 input. So all surround sound comes at a 90 degree angle, instead of spread out somewehere beside and behind me like in 7.1. Much less surround experience.

So now I'm experimenting with 2 splitters and a set of extra analog cables on my DVD player to split the 5.1 surround channels and feed those identical signals to the 7.1 side surround and rear surround inputs on my reciever. This way I can create phantom speakers between the side and rear surround speakers, just by changing the balance on the 7.1 inputs on the receiver and compensating the overall balance on the surround channels on the DVD player. There is some more tweaking required, but it's starting to sound a bit like the DPL IIx effect :cool:
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8 replies since April 15 2004, 20:10 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

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