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Topic: Some Thoughts, i.e., What is Incantations like, etc.?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
TheInfection Offline




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Posted: Feb. 11 2002, 06:41

At first Incantations felt like it was too long and massive, but now I like it. My favourite parts are the Hiawatha-song in the second part and the whole 4th part. My only complain is that I'd like to hear more Mike's guitar and more darker themes.

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TheInfection
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Baggiesfaninessex Offline




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Posted: Mar. 12 2002, 15:33

I agree. Part four is superb. I also feel though, Incantations as a whole, would have appealed to a wider audience had Mike condensed the album into two sides of music. There are parts of the album that are simply repeated ad nauseum, thus losing the focus and attention of the listener.

A shame, as this is potentially one of Mike's finest and most diverse works.

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Posted: June 18 2002, 05:43

I dont' understand why everyone likes part 4 so much. I like the bits with the vocals, but the synth/vibes thing before that sounds to me like one of Pierre Moerelen's late 70s gong stuff (like Percolations from "Gazeuse!"). Not that there's anything wrong with that, but I prefer the long soloing bit in part 3. I can't get enough of those hypnotic arpreggios up and down the fretboard.
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MusicallyInspired Offline




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Posted: June 18 2002, 22:00

yes! the part 3 solo! i love that solo! i took one morning and tabbed it out for myself and i play along with it every time i hear it!

i like part 4 too....the whole thing. its very kool indeed. but i love the part 3 solo more!

i also love that middle part on part 1

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Posted: June 26 2002, 15:50

You 'tabbed it out'? Shit! I had to download the tabs from the internet, and now I'm halfway through the solo. That one and the 'fast triplets' solo from Ommadawn are the solos I *never* thought I'd be able to play, but they're not as impossible I thought at first.

I agree that the middle section of part 1 is great too (probably my 2nd favorite part), but the flute solo that comes after that is *incredible*.

I started listening to MO twenty years ago. Some of his older stuff has 'aged' (not badly) quite a bit, but Incantations is timeless!

Lars
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theweightless Offline




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Posted: July 03 2002, 17:58

this would be more wonderful if mike's guitar was louder...or more of it. i like this...there's just so much stuff.

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MusicallyInspired Offline




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Posted: July 03 2002, 21:04

ya i got it tabbed do you want it? i still have yet to learn those fast parts on Ommadawn. havent sat down with them yet. and yes i felt the same way....Serpent Dream, Incantations part 3, Ommadawn fast parts, Platinum Part 2, Guilty Solo, and anything else fast i thought "no ill just listen to that" but its not impossible at all! just takes some time....and yes that flute part is awesome too!

i thought the guitar on incantations was just right.....maybe a little louder...especially for that part at the end of the middle part of incantations part 1. the guitar on ommadawn i thought was too quiet....either that or the bass was turned down too low.


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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: July 09 2002, 05:26

I haven't really listened to it that much. I love the Ode to Cynthia at the end of part four, which I first heard when I got the Elements CD (the one disk one). Yeah, I'll have to listen to it more.

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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: Dec. 13 2002, 03:11

Well, I listened to it more, and it really is incredable in some places. The solo in Part Three is great. In my version it is at the start, but some of you have the longer one with the 'fanfare' at the start.  I also like the Part Four solo which goes into the Cynthia bit.

In some places, particularly the vocals in part two, it does feel too long and stretched out for me. Parts Three and Four are much better, in my opinion, than One and Two.


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familyjules Offline




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Posted: May 25 2004, 05:20

I listened to Incantations last night and remembered how flat it felt after waiting the three years (well two in my case) after Ommadawn.

Incantations doesn't scale the sonic peaks of Ommadawn, nor does it weave its themes together in such a magical way.  There is also none of its impishness and playfulness.

In many ways its closer to Hergest Ridge, but it doesn't have the same depth of melancholy emotion as HR.

This is not to say that Incantations is worthless - it has many first rate themes and passages, but over the course of a double album lasting in excess of 72 minutes, you're just left feeling kind of, like I said, flat.

Ommadawn must have been a bitch of a record to follow so maybe Mike just avoided the comparisons by going in a different direction (like he had with HR after TB).  I'm just not sure how successful he was.

What do others think?

Jules


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Holger Offline




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Posted: May 25 2004, 05:53

Quote (familyjules @ May 25 2004, 05:20)
What do others think?

I think... reading comments like that makes me a bit sad.

Incantations is very obviously a work that Mike invested an incredible amount of love and energy in. Long album or not, I never feel let down by it for even a minute. It is an awe-inspiring work from start to finish, and by no means a letdown from Ommadawn.

Of course, I wasn't around when the two albums were released (I was one year old when Incantations came out.) Three years is indeed a very long time to wait for a follow-up to an album as breathtaking, groundbreaking, and unique as Ommadawn, and if what you get is not what you had hoped to hear, disappointment is the consistent reaction.

I agree that in many ways, Incantations is closer to Hergest Ridge than to Ommadawn. It's less dramatic, less focused maybe. Many tranquil parts. I'm not pointing at anyone in particular (especially not at you, Jules, since you clearly stated that you do enjoy the album after all) when I say that Incantations is not for people with a short attention span. It requires the listener to truely let himself get wrapped up in it, and rewards him (or her) with a unique and wonderful experience of emotional fulfillment.

While Ommadawn has the same effect in many ways, it is also much more concise, focused, and provides much more of a cathartic experience. The finale of part one is something that has no counterpart in Incantations. People who love Ommadawn primarily for the build-up to a huge emotional climax will no doubt be disappointed by Incantations.

The only thing I can say to people who feel disappointed with Incantations after having fallen in love with Ommadawn is give it another try, and then yet another. You might eventually find something different but equally rewarding in this amazing and beautiful album.
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familyjules Offline




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Posted: May 25 2004, 06:37

Quote (Holger @ May 25 2004, 05:53)
I'm not pointing at anyone in particular (especially not at you, Jules, since you clearly stated that you do enjoy the album after all)

While Ommadawn has the same effect in many ways, it is also much more concise, focused, and provides much more of a cathartic experience. The finale of part one is something that has no counterpart in Incantations. People who love Ommadawn primarily for the build-up to a huge emotional climax will no doubt be disappointed by Incantations.

The only thing I can say to people who feel disappointed with Incantations after having fallen in love with Ommadawn is give it another try, and then yet another. You might eventually find something different but equally rewarding in this amazing and beautiful album.

Great post Holger!

Indeed I do wish to reiterate that I still like the album and I'm looking forward to giving it another listen tonight (I just bought the HDCD remaster).

Your point about Ommadawn is very valid.  I was looking for the same thrill ride I got from Ommadawn (which I still get from Ommadawn) when I bought Incantations, and it simply wasn't there.

Incantations is much more static, yet it's not as peaceful as Hergest Ridge.  It ripples and undulates more.  There's certainly much beauty and craftsmanship in the grooves.  Yet I still find the album lacking in the fire of the pure inspiration that fuelled Mike's first 3 albums.

That said, I accept your prognosis, and I fully intend to have the record on repeat play for much of this week.

:-)

Jules


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: May 25 2004, 07:21

I've been increasingly frustrated with Ommadawn recently. Two days ago, I listened to it immediately after Brian Eno's "Before And After Science", and I had so much spite and venom directed against it, I couldn't wait until the damned Horseback song arrived. In the night, though, I put it on and enjoyed it. I don't really know what to make out of it. I never loved the album, and I don't. Incantations, on the other hand, forced me to like it right from the beginning. It messes with my brainwaves in a way Ommadawn could never do. Incantations is all about those little things, those details, those slight disturbances that really touch your brain in many different ways. It's not an emotional ride, but given the emotional ride of Ommadawn and the mental stimulation of Incantations, I take the latter any time of the day.

But hey, Ommadawn is still worthy of a 9/10 in my book.


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Inkanta Offline




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Posted: May 28 2004, 23:46

Quote (familyjules @ May 25 2004, 05:20)
I listened to Incantations last night and remembered how flat it felt after waiting the three years (well two in my case) after Ommadawn.

Incantations doesn't scale the sonic peaks of Ommadawn, nor does it weave its themes together in such a magical way.  There is also none of its impishness and playfulness.

Incantations was the first album of Mike’s I ever heard, so for me, it did not follow on the heels (in geologic time) of Ommadawn. Maybe that is a blessing, but I really don’t think it would have mattered.  For me, Incantations is the most magickal album I’ve ever heard, and that’s coming to you as a witch. ;) Anyway….I just cannot agree about the flatness…that it lacks the peaks of Ommadawn.  You’ve probably read enough about the album to know that it was built around a specific chord progression, which threads throughout. Added to that, is the way that seemingly un-related lyrical themes are entwined and correlated. For me, the music is 3D, as are the images it produces in my mind. I can visualize, touch, and taste the sensations. Part one is the magickal time of twilight with the moon rising above a dew-wet meadow. Sometimes it connotes the rising sun in a brightening sky. Part two is the sweet, pine-scented early summer morning. Part three (and don’t ask me why) connotes a port, complete with seagulls, the scent of the salty sea air and merchant ships of the 1500s replete with cardamom spice and Venetian glass. Part IV returns to another moonrise, more intense and spiritual for me than than Part I.
 
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This is not to say that Incantations is worthless - it has many first rate themes and passages, but over the course of a double album lasting in excess of 72 minutes, you're just left feeling kind of, like I said, flat.

Please re-phrase that: YOU are left feeling flat—;)  I on the other hand, am left feeling as 3D--no--4D--as the moon and as peaked as a glacial valley.  I am not going to tell you where I think the climaxes lay—that would ruin the process of discovery for you. Perhaps you will find your way beyond the perception of flatness, but people react differently to Mike’s music, which is a very cliché thing to say, I suppose……


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raven4x4x Offline




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Posted: May 29 2004, 08:21

Isn't it strange how the same music can be viewed so differently by two people! For me, Incantations rates a special mention for the soaring guitar solos in Parts 3 and 4, as well as for the Ode to Cynthia at the very end. Parts One and Two to me just don't seem to have that magic, even though there isn't anything about them that is bad on its own, just altogether they get a bit the same. This is especially true of Hiawatha; I really love Maddy Prior's voice and I just wish that Mike had done something more interesting with this section.

Now with the criticism out of the way, I can go on to say how much I love Parts 3 and 4, especially 4. This to me is Mike really blossoming as a fantastic guitarist, those long high solos are amazing. Nothing I can write will say how much I love Ode to Cynthia. This is what Hiawatha should have been! Maddy's voice works so well along with the music, everything is just perfect. This is the first I ever heard of Incantations, on the Elements disc, and it is still my favourite part (right at the end of the double album as well... )


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Inkanta Offline




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Posted: May 29 2004, 11:09

I wish the Hiawatha section had been completely different. I’d rather have seen a Native American artist singing something besides SOH and in her own language (whichever of the 100’s of languages that might be. Joanne Shenandoahwould have been a start ;)  ). Sherman Alexie's  Lone Ranger and Tonto may be fist fighting in heaven, but it’s more likely to be Longfellow and the real Hiawatha (tho the latter was a person of peace, so probably not……).

I cannot put into words how much I love Incantations and what it has meant in my life. It strikes as much of an emotional chord for me as Ommadawn dos for many people. It also reaches me, like Holger, at an intellectual level. It doesn’t get much better than running along the shores of the Mississippi accompanied by herons and pelicans, while listening to Part II. When I lived in the Ithaca, NY area, heaven was driving up the hill overlooking Cayuga Lake at sunset—the “Hiawatha’s Depature” section came alive in very interesting ways. Heaven, heaven, heaven.

Except for the fly in the ointment. The fly in the ointment for me is the realization that Longfellow appropriated his “Hiawatha” from the Haudenosaunee (Iroquois) and the Anishinaabeg (Ojibwe), and thoroughly romanticized and distorted Native culture in the process. Mike’s use of exerpts from SOH perpetuates this. To make matters worse, apparently when it was performed live, Maddy dressed up as a Native person from the pre-Contact period! If she did that in 2004 in the USA, various Native and non-Native supporters might picket (and I’d be among them). In 2004, Native Americans still fight stereotypic images, treaty rights, and sovereignty issues. (a Native joke is that Indians are the only ones fighting against the Government and for the Government at the same time). The poorest zip codes in the USA belong to Indian Nations. Several years ago, I met one of Sitting Bull’s (Tatanka Iyotanka’s) great-great grandsons, who at the time was president of a tribal college, and living without running water and electricity in his home. And not out of choice. Longevity for Native people is a good third—closer to a half!!—that of European-Americans. There are some pretty serious issues in Indian Country.

It was challenging to come to terms with my love for Incantations, including Part II, and my complete dismay at what Hiawatha represents. I don’t think I have, completely, but that’s ok. On the days when I’m listening to it in a particularly activistic mood (usually while running—something about the adrenaline??), I have composed letters, teaching activities, talks for church etc. in my mind that I went on to do, so I guess it has a useful purpose. I suppose it also gives me an opportunity to speak out in forums like this, and point anyone interested in reaching beyond the stereotypes that SOH perpetuates, to reliable information. So….. rather than continuing my current rant, I'll leave you'all with the Native American Home Pages. Pay particular attention to the “Mascots” section. Incantations: Emotional, Intellectual, Educational.  :)


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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: June 09 2004, 14:44

There is a region called the Hiawatha Valley on the Upper Mississippi. It is also associated with Lake Superior (Gitche-Gumee).

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Laugh and leap into the valley."
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Starwatcher Offline




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Posted: Aug. 08 2004, 11:35

Hi!

I bought "Incantations" last week. It was the last album that had been missing in my Oldfield collection (except of most of the compilations). Now I've listened to it three times and I'm really overwhelmed by its variety of sounds and the emotions it evokes for me...
I think it could become my favorite 70's album by Mike (except of TB of course). I love all the vocal parts, the flutes and strings of Part 1 make me fly away..... Part 4 is simply fantastic but I think I still have to get used to Part 3.... It will take further listenings.
Anyway it's great to discover an over 25 years old opus like a new one..... :)


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Aug. 08 2004, 13:36

I think, to me, the part of Incantations that drives me absolutely nuts is that simple, four note sequence that appears near the beginning of part 1. I really appreciate it when an artist really bangs on my nerves with just a few notes. They way they seem to challenge the chords behind them is breathtaking.

Also, I was surprised by the fact that Incantations, in spite of what I said previously, does cause emotional resonance. It's just a different kind of resonant. Ommadawn screams at you "now you feel happy! Now you feel gloomy and depressed! Now you feel ecstatic!", while Incantations takes you to an alternate dimension. It's a really good album for "travelling". It's not something of this planet, despite all the aboryginal influences. The strings on part 1, the ominous darkness of part 2, the unbelievable tension at the end of part 3 and the crystalised drops of music in part 4 are priceless.

I also like the cyclical chord sequences. Most times, we have just a symple loop of chords, or a sequence that goes forwards and comes back. But in Incantations, they're like an endless cycle. I really like that. The trumpet part on part 1 is nothing but a cycle of fifths, but it works so goddamned well!


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hiawatha Offline




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Posted: Aug. 08 2004, 14:40

....which 4 notes is that?

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Where the Falls of Minnehaha
Flash and gleam among the oak-trees,
Laugh and leap into the valley."
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