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Topic: So it comes to this, another TBII thread, Don't take this the wrong way< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
moonchildhippy Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 07:17

Quote (Alan D @ Nov. 20 2007, 21:28)
Quote (moonchildhippy @ Nov. 20 2007, 22:18)
It's just I don't really think of the mathematical aspects of the music when I listen to a CD

No, neither do I, Galadriel - I only mentioned this because you brought it up. It was never part of what I was saying, earlier on.

OH maybe I got confused by what you'd said here
Quote
The intention is not to convey emotion, but to articulate musical insight. The perfection of the result may generate emotion in the listener of course, but that's a by-product. I might be, and have been, moved by the perfection of a piece of mathematics, for example - but the emotion is a separate thing that has nothing to do with assessing the quality of the mathematics.


That's why I brought it up about maths and music :) .

Time for some primal scream therapy, Tubular Bells, I accidentally brnged my baby this morning, yep my car, She's still drivable, but will cost me £250 to repair. :O .


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It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad

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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 13:00

Quote (moonchildhippy @ Nov. 21 2007, 12:17)
That's why I brought it up about maths and music

Yes, I know. But I'll just tiptoe out quietly while the going's good.

Sorry to hear about the car. Horrible business.
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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 15:28

Quote (jonnyw @ Nov. 20 2007, 17:27)
I cant really agree at all with what you're saying.... Writing such a big essay on it when really it all boils down to personal preference I think most of us will agree.

I suppose you're talking to the 17-year-old me, there. I honestly don't know what he would have replied, but I say... isn't about 60% of this forum made up of personal preference? :)

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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 17:02

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Nov. 21 2007, 20:28)
isn't about 60% of this forum made up of personal preference?

Sounds like a good figure. I'm 60% sure that I only understand about 60% of my own posts in this thread.
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jonnyw Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 17:46

Quote
Quote
Quote (jonnyw @ Nov. 20 2007, 22:27)
I cant really agree at all with what you're saying.... Writing such a big essay on it when really it all boils down to personal preference


You don't agree with whom, Johnny? We all seem to be saying different things.

For myself, I find it interesting to think about the different ways we listen to music and how it affects our opinions of what we hear (in this case, TB2) . In other words, I'm interested in how and why those 'personal preferences' differ. Since that's a far from simple matter, I don't think it can be resolved with a quick one-liner, because (as the confusions in this thread demonstrate) it's not at all easy to express the ideas clearly enough to be understood.


I didn't agree at all with Sir M's post.


I gave my opinion on it (I couldn't really establish a valid reason for it being so lengthy etc) and In my case, One liners can sum it up...

*Shrugs*


Just another one of those fun fun tubular moments that rapidly bores me.. I suppose I was trying to entertain myself really, It's good to see someone actually challenging me compared to my usual feeling of people skimming over and ignoring me, This making me feel I "Kill a thread".

It's fair enough, Alan, that you're interested in different impressions on music I apologise if I ruffled any feathers.

It's probably just me.. I do "Get" Oldfield's music to a certain degree But I wouldn't be able to write a big essay on it.. I would rather escape to my own musical world though.. as opposed to losing myself in what he has done.

Either way, I guess I just wanted some kind of attention or something, Probably....


--------------
Grand piano.
Reed and pipe organ.
Glockenspeil.
Bass guitar.
Vocal chords.
Two slightly sampled electric guitars.
The venitian effect.
Digital sound processor.
And Tubular bells.

Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com

Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 18:08

Quote (jonnyw @ Nov. 21 2007, 22:46)
I apologise if I ruffled any feathers.

I don't think any feathers were ruffled to be apologised for, as I think you can tell from both Sir M's response and mine.

To tell the truth, I think it's far more beneficial to spend time listening to (or making) music than talking about it, and indeed I do spend a lot more time listening to music than talking about it, believe it or not. But you know how it is. You get drawn in.
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bee Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 18:17

Quote (jonnyw @ Nov. 21 2007, 17:46)
my usual feeling of people skimming over and ignoring me, This making me feel I "Kill a thread".

I always read your posts & I think you have interesting things to say Jonny, but I think I understand what you mean about killing a thread. I am guilty of this, I feel, many times, probably my own fault for saying things before I've properly thought them through. Odd thing is when I write them down I think that's exactly what I mean but then a day or two later I think oh my goodness whatever was I trying to say? And I'm not very good at keeping to the point whereas you are. This is a great place to visit and everyone is so friendly and knowledgable but there's bound to be times when we are at odds with each other, not necessarily because we don't 'agree' but because we are out of sync, maybe,...... I don't know, I think I'm about to ramble, so enough!

But don't stop posting!


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 18:37

Quote (jonnyw @ Nov. 21 2007, 17:46)
I gave my opinion on it (I couldn't really establish a valid reason for it being so lengthy etc) and In my case, One liners can sum it up...

Maybe a bit of a mea culpa fits in here. I am eloquent. When I get started, I can't stop. People who have more or less followed some of my threads know that. I write a lot, and this is not an exercise of pomposity or "skill". It's part of my nature... though, yes, I do sometimes enjoy articulating my feelings and thoughts as words. And, oh heck, I never stopped to think about this, but I might enjoy talking and writing and reading about music just as much as actually listening to it. Seeing the evolution of your opinion of a piece, interacting with other people about it... it's an extension of the enjoyment. It's the externalisation of the feeling. I find that cool.

When I write lengthy "essays" on music, be it Oldfield's or anyone else's, it might be very much to tell other people, but it's also to tell myself. In large part, I had my reviews page (currently defunct, but who knows) largely for that. I love writing, be it fiction or not. I love speaking, too.

For the record, I'm listening to the goshdarned album right now. Ok, so give me the neurological explanation, but I feel exactly the way I thought I'd feel upon listening to it again. No, I can't change it. Viewing this album as a rewrite of Tubular Bells upsets me. Viewing it as an independent effort annoys me. The album has engraved on its very grooves what it is supposed to be; it's like it's listening to Tubular Bells on its headphones while it's playing. Oh, and on that note, side one is WAY more tolerable than side two; so much more that it isn't even funny.


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
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jonnyw Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 19:01

Thanks for the replies guys.

I am glad to hear what you had said, and glad to hear that bee sometimes feels the same.

I know a guy who does the same as what you're saying there Sir M. Though he is profusely fascinated with writing when it comes to anything. I like him and we get along well. Would you feel that you are similar to him in that you feel at home writing a lot.. or would you say Oldfields work motivates you to do it moreso than usual?

In my case, I am a quiet enough person by nature anyway.. and the whole "Brave behind the keyboard" thing doesn't really apply at all to me and I talk here as much as I would at a party. I think I would write something like what you had if I were pissed off beyond comprehension about the subject at hand.. which probably set me off.. I felt that it couldn't be that bad and album.

Then again, after surfing about the site I see you appear to be more inclined to voice your opinions a bit more in-depth anyway. And I think I'll just leave you to it ;)


Thanks again for the kind replies again everyone. (I don't mean to sound so down-in-the-dumps)


--------------
Grand piano.
Reed and pipe organ.
Glockenspeil.
Bass guitar.
Vocal chords.
Two slightly sampled electric guitars.
The venitian effect.
Digital sound processor.
And Tubular bells.

Solo music - http://-terrapin-.bebo.com

Band music - http://www.rsimusic.com
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 19:35

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Nov. 21 2007, 23:37)
When I write lengthy "essays" on music, be it Oldfield's or anyone else's, it might be very much to tell other people, but it's also to tell myself.

I think that's a very powerful stimulus to write. Lewis Carroll gets it exactly right when he has Alice ask 'How do I know what I think till I see what I say?'

I think it's particularly helpful with something which really is difficult to get your head round. There's just too much to cope with without writing it down - and if you write it down here on the forum, there's always a chance that someone will say something that clarifies a point, or opens up a different avenue of thought. Mainly though, writing is just second nature for me. I write, therefore I am.
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Tubularman Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 19:42

you are not alone jonnyw :)
Im a big fan of this album, but i do love tb1 aswell.
I find tb2 very relaxing. It took me months before i loved it. Actually, thanks to the tb2 DVD. It was so fantastic to see all the guitars and instruments been played. It really opened my eyes when Mike seems to be in the right mood there he stood. And i can feel it too. This album is one of the golden album out there. I can turn of the lights and light candles and just listen to this work. It is full of details, emotions, chill atmosphere, and lovely fingerplays. It is one of the albums i never get tired of.

ps: jonnyw: i always read your posts!


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Sir Mustapha Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 19:47

Quote (jonnyw @ Nov. 21 2007, 19:01)
I know a guy who does the same as what you're saying there Sir M. Though he is profusely fascinated with writing when it comes to anything. I like him and we get along well. Would you feel that you are similar to him in that you feel at home writing a lot.. or would you say Oldfields work motivates you to do it moreso than usual?

I really do like talking about lots of things - though most times I try not to start meddling with stuff I have little knowledge of. In those cases, I listen and read more. But yes, when I have proper thoughts to articulate, I like to express it verbally. And I do like to talk about many sorts of music and artists, but Mike Oldfield's work is particularly interesting because it's massive but not overwhelming, diverse yet coherent, and consistently intelligent. And the forum is very welcoming, too. :)

I think you don't need to feel worried about your posts any more. Your contributions are as welcome as everyone else's here, and I find them very relevant, overall. Stick around. :)

Quote
I think it's particularly helpful with something which really is difficult to get your head round. There's just too much to cope with without writing it down - and if you write it down here on the forum, there's always a chance that someone will say something that clarifies a point, or opens up a different avenue of thought. Mainly though, writing is just second nature for me. I write, therefore I am.


Yup, that's pretty much the way it goes. By the way, still about my eloquence... I didn't make it clear, but I don't think that's an advantage of mine. I do wish, most times, that I were more concise and witty. But I just have to, eventually, use all the words I feel like using to satisfy myself. I just try to make my writing not tiresome to read, but I'm not the best person to determine that, right? ;)


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Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
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Alan D Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 19:49

Quote (bee @ Nov. 21 2007, 23:17)
I think I understand what you mean about killing a thread. I am guilty of this

I have never, never, never, observed this imagined phenomenon of you 'killing' a thread - though I understand how you come to feel it because similar thoughts occur to me too. (I betcha if we did a count of who 'kills' most threads, I'd win.) But the truth is that lots of your posts stimulate thought and comment, and you often open up aspects that are fresh.

Same goes for Johnny. I always picture you in the thick of things around here. Certainly I've never thought of you as 'Johnny the thread-killer'.

And to think all this psychoanalysis and paranoia began with the resurfacing of a four-year old post about Tubular Bells 2....
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Tubularman Offline




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Posted: Nov. 21 2007, 19:53

i like to read what you mean Sir Mustapha even if im not agree with all you say, like tb2. But you spice up your lines with interesting thoughs and words. :)

edit: spice up your lines makes me think of spice girls he he..
Ever heard; spice up you life?
so dicturbing.....


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moonchildhippy Offline




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Posted: Nov. 22 2007, 17:47

Quote (bee @ Nov. 21 2007, 22:17)
Quote (jonnyw @ Nov. 21 2007, 17:46)
my usual feeling of people skimming over and ignoring me, This making me feel I "Kill a thread".

I always read your posts & I think you have interesting things to say Jonny, but I think I understand what you mean about killing a thread. I am guilty of this, I feel, many times, probably my own fault for saying things before I've properly thought them through. Odd thing is when I write them down I think that's exactly what I mean but then a day or two later I think oh my goodness whatever was I trying to say? And I'm not very good at keeping to the point whereas you are. This is a great place to visit and everyone is so friendly and knowledgable but there's bound to be times when we are at odds with each other, not necessarily because we don't 'agree' but because we are out of sync, maybe,...... I don't know, I think I'm about to ramble, so enough!

But don't stop posting!

I agree with Bee. I enjoy the wide range of discussions on this board, and also apart from the odd poster on this this board there has never been a problem with flaming or cyberfighting :)  :D .

Yes some of us prefer the original Tubular Bells, others of us prefer TBII, but it's each to his or her own, and rarely is anyone shouted down for this.


--------------
I'm going slightly mad,
It finally happened, I'm slightly mad , just very slightly mad

If you feel a little glum to Hergest Ridge you should come.


I'm challenging  taboos surrounding mental health


"Part time hippy"

I'M SUPPORTING OUR SOLDIERS

BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW!!
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trcanberra Offline




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Posted: Feb. 03 2008, 06:41

Interesting discussion.  I bought the CD yesterday and must say I rather enjoyed it.  I'm glad he called it Tubular Bells II, it is more of a "sequel" than TB III for me.

Possibly shouldn't use the term sequel, more a musical variation.  I'm quite a fan of classical "theme and variation" structures, where a composer plays around with popular tunes and shows how clever he can be spinning off variants, some of them quite removed from the original.

Perhaps that "cleverness" is what comes across as lack of emotion for some.  For me, it was more like a look at an old friend from a different angle.  Personally I prefer the original, but I'm still glad I bought this.

I was particularly impressed by "The Bell" - unlike some others here.  I was wondering how Mike would handle such a well-known piece and I really enjoyed the variations.
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Major Gowen Offline




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Posted: Aug. 23 2008, 02:48

Tubular Bells 2 - this was the album that got me back into Mike's music after a long time away. Plus the Edinburgh concert, which seemed a big event even though it was tucked away on BBC2 at about 10.00 at night. Plus Mike being interviewed on Radio 1 at the time - I think this was the first time I'd ever heard him speaking.

In the intervening years it's become one of my favourite MO albums, and it doesn't really make sense. Firstly I dislike musical sequels and usually dismiss them as an artist's cynical attempt to make money from former glories. Secondly I've never been keen on music which is polished, and I would say TB2 is very polished. Compared to the original anyway. Yet TB2 moves me a great deal, probably not as much as the original, but then that was one of my childhood albums. But it still moves me, in particular the beginning of Part Two (I can never remember the track titles) and the 'quiet section' before the country finale. These are quite beautiful pieces of music.
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nightspore Offline




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Posted: Aug. 23 2008, 09:20

What do you think of TB III, Major Gowan? I liked TB II right from the start, and along with Amarok I think it's Mike's best album. But TB III I hated at first, except for "Moonwatch". Then "Top of the Morning" suddenly manifested its brilliance. And then "Outcast". And then "The Inner Child". It's uncanny how Mike's music sneaks up on you. At this rate I'll be liking Tres Lunas and humbly beseeching Alan D to rejoin us!
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Holger Offline




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Posted: Aug. 23 2008, 16:36

Quote (Holger @ June 18 2003, 21:32)
Mustapha, I agree with you 100%. Can't think of anything much to add to what you said.

Interesting that I said that five years ago. I didn't even remember posting in this thread. Reading the opening post again, I found quite a few things I disagree with. Though I'll also say I still share the basic sentiment of that post. I certainly prefer TB (and indeed, TBIII and TB2003), but TBII definitely has its moments. But yes, I basically agree that it's safe, tame and somewhat overpolished - not so much as to constitute a bad album, certainly, but so much as to make the original preferable.
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Major Gowen Offline




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Posted: Aug. 24 2008, 16:29

Quote (nightspore @ Aug. 23 2008, 09:20)
What do you think of TB III, Major Gowan? I liked TB II right from the start, and along with Amarok I think it's Mike's best album. But TB III I hated at first, except for "Moonwatch". Then "Top of the Morning" suddenly manifested its brilliance. And then "Outcast". And then "The Inner Child". It's uncanny how Mike's music sneaks up on you. At this rate I'll be liking Tres Lunas and humbly beseeching Alan D to rejoin us!

I really liked TB3 on its release and listened to it a lot back in 1998-99. Since then I've gone back to it a few times and think the second half (from Man In The Rain onwards) is brilliant, but the first half less so. I'm not massively keen on the techno/Ibiza sound - this probably comes from working in a record shop in the 90s and having to listen to dance music (a loose term I know) all day long, probably why I don't like Britpop either! Man In The Rain is one of my favourite songs by Mike, there's a beautiful sadness about it. Top Of The Morning is a corker as well, the musical equivalent of standing on a hilltop looking at breathtaking rural scenery. I love the finale, apart from the child's voice, with its echoes of Tubular Bells and Ommadawn and think it's one of Mike's better album climaxes.

For me TB3 works less well as a Tubular Bells 'instalment' compared to TB2, there are references to the original but stylistically it doesn't have much of a connection. I also think the sound of the album works against it, dating it slightly.

It was great to see Mike performing on Later With Jools Holland at the time, nice to see him on TV and he seemed fairly chipper in the interview at the piano.

Certainly agree with you on TB2, nightspore, one of his best.
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