Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Pages: (2) < 1 [2] >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Topic: "Sentinel" Language< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Ugo Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 5495
Joined: April 2000
Posted: Sep. 08 2011, 09:13

@ I1: in Italy, everyone pronounces my name "òò go" as written in English ortography and "ùù go" as written in phonetical ortography. There is a wide difference between English ortography and phonetical ortography, and I'm not sure whether you are aware of this. The word in "Sentinel" is muy-eh written in English ortography and may-ey written in phonetical ortography. The pronunciation of muy/may is supposed to be the same - i.e. to rhyme with "try".

The video is not a collection of random images. You are twisting my words yet again. Of course the images have a common theme, and this happens to be Native Americans. But what I said is that the images are decorative and that they have no connection whatsoever to the music. In TWC the imagery was Mike's experimentation with a graphic computer, which was brand new at the time, and only a small portion of the images are actually linked to the music.

Also, what I think you ought to remember is that this video for "Sentinel" came later than the music. It was made for the single version [3'54''] of "Sentinel", which, of course, being an edit of the album version, was made later than the piece on the album. Because of this, I don't think Mike Oldfield had any creative input into the creation of the imagery in the video. Of course he may have been very much hands-on when he did TWC - it was intended as a "Video Album", and the TWC video was released simultaneously with the Islands album. But then the same may very well be not true at all for this video, which is intended as a promotional tool for a single release which came out later [not simultaneously!] than the album on which the music was originally released. In most short films (commonly called music videos) which are intended as promotional tools, the artist has no creative input at all as far as the imagery is concerned. The director is responsible for it. This is the way it works: the director, production designer, choreographer, etc. come up with various ideas, various themes, and they pitch all of that to the artist. The artist says "That one is OK" and that's all of his/her input. :) So I don't think that Mike Oldfield wrote and recorded his piece of music "Sentinel" to be specifically about Native Americans (as the video was made later than the music, and, as I said, the ideas are not his) nor did he attach any particular meaning to what is being sung. He liked those sounds at the time he wrote and recorded the music. The fact that they may have a meaning which is connected to the video is purely and entirely coincidental.


--------------
Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
Back to top
Profile PM 
Sir Mustapha Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 2802
Joined: April 2003
Posted: Sep. 08 2011, 10:18

Quote (larstangmark @ Sep. 04 2011, 17:24)
Someone like Robert Fripp is much more likely to add easter eggs and hidden meanings to his music.

You're thinking of Tool, there.

--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
0+1(I1) Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 418
Joined: Mar. 2011
Posted: Sep. 08 2011, 19:36

Quote (Ugo @ Sep. 08 2011, 16:13)
@ I1: in Italy, everyone pronounces my name "òò go" as written in English ortography and "ùù go" as written in phonetical ortography. There is a wide difference between English ortography and phonetical ortography, and I'm not sure whether you are aware of this. The word in "Sentinel" is muy-eh written in English ortography and may-ey written in phonetical ortography. The pronunciation of muy/may is supposed to be the same - i.e. to rhyme with "try".

Ugo regarding the first paragraph of your posting,  I obviously can never be sure of the way you or anyone else perceives the world, i.e. the colour you see to be red, in my mind may be blue & vice versa, yet we would both point at the same colour & say that is red but there is no way of knowing if we both see the same thing/colour.  Hence the same may also be true for other senses, such as hearing etc.

In this way I can not in your written words be sure of the sound you are trying to explain or transfer unless I can actually hear your voice make the sound in a sound file. Maybe because of this I can not really have faith that I or in reverse you understand fully the sound you are attempting to convey to me & I to you.

So hopefully by using these sound files you & others will get an idea of what we hear.  The first part of what we hear is the sound of the first part of the word MONday so this corresponds to the first part of the word MONey, yet I agree both of these letter "O"'s are in sound more like a "U" as in this sound file:- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Monday

And here in this Sound file of the word "MONEY" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/money

Now hear the American sound of "EY":- http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Ey
in this last sound file you will notice the American sound of "EY" was not the "ey" sound as it is in English but an "ay" as in the next sound file, yet it spells ey not ay, thus munay in sound but would be spelt money!!!.
also hear sound file 3  here for "AY" http://www.thefreedictionary.com/ay
And file of "YAY" sound:-
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/yay

So what I have been saying is that what you Ugo hear as MUY/may etc is in English the sound "mun" or part of "MON"(ey) + the American sound "EY" that sounds in an American tongue as "AY" to our ears, this to me makes sense.  
I hope this helps clarify things for you, all the best I1.


--------------
L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
Back to top
Profile PM 
0+1(I1) Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 418
Joined: Mar. 2011
Posted: Sep. 08 2011, 21:02

Quote (Ugo @ Sep. 04 2011, 14:08)
The promotional video has nothing to do with the song nor it is intended to represent its meaning (if any). It's just graphics.

And anyway...
Quote
SORRY UGO, IMHO not "meaningless" but PERFECT SENSE to "I".

Just what I was expecting to happen. :laugh: :D

The word is not "Money". It's ma-y-yeh, ma-y-yeh oh, ma-y-ma-y-yeh. (written phonetically). I've listened very closely to all of the three videos and the N-sounds are just not there. I'm not sure whether ma-y-yeh makes sense in some Native American language or some African one (the latter sounds more likely than the former), but to me it doesn't make any sense. :)

For the record

--------------
L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
Back to top
Profile PM 
0+1(I1) Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 418
Joined: Mar. 2011
Posted: Sep. 08 2011, 22:39

Quote (Ugo @ Sep. 08 2011, 16:13)
The video is not a collection of random images. You are twisting my words yet again. Of course the images have a common theme, and this happens to be Native Americans. But what I said is that the images are decorative and that they have no connection whatsoever to the music. In TWC the imagery was Mike's experimentation with a graphic computer, which was brand new at the time, and only a small portion of the images are actually linked to the music.

Also, what I think you ought to remember is that this video for "Sentinel" came later than the music. It was made for the single version [3'54''] of "Sentinel", which, of course, being an edit of the album version, was made later than the piece on the album. Because of this, I don't think Mike Oldfield had any creative input into the creation of the imagery in the video. Of course he may have been very much hands-on when he did TWC - it was intended as a "Video Album", and the TWC video was released simultaneously with the Islands album. But then the same may very well be not true at all for this video, which is intended as a promotional tool for a single release which came out later [not simultaneously!] than the album on which the music was originally released. In most short films (commonly called music videos) which are intended as promotional tools, the artist has no creative input at all as far as the imagery is concerned. The director is responsible for it. This is the way it works: the director, production designer, choreographer, etc. come up with various ideas, various themes, and they pitch all of that to the artist. The artist says "That one is OK" and that's all of his/her input. :) So I don't think that Mike Oldfield wrote and recorded his piece of music "Sentinel" to be specifically about Native Americans (as the video was made later than the music, and, as I said, the ideas are not his) nor did he attach any particular meaning to what is being sung. He liked those sounds at the time he wrote and recorded the music. The fact that they may have a meaning which is connected to the video is purely and entirely coincidental.

Ugo in reply to the second part of your post above.

I do not feel I am as you put it twisting your words, were you not saying that the images had no relationship to the music when you say here, they are only decoration or to be precise you wrote in the post I was replying to: [The promotional video has nothing to do with the song nor it is intended to represent its meaning (if any). It's just graphics.].

Thus I can not see how my writing this in reply to the above: [are you really saying in your last post that the video, Mike made for this music has nothing to do with his interpretation of it, or what he may have been inspired by in creating the music? even that it is just a collection of random images as you said elsewhere about other videos?.] is this twisting your words?.

Ugo you in your reply post change what you wrote before, as in the above that I had replied to, into these words: [that the images are decorative and that they have no connection whatsoever to the music.]. So all can see these are not your words that I was replying to, therefore it is not I who is twisting your words but you who is twisting things around, as you state above that you wrote one thing when in fact you wrote another.

Ugo I am finding it impossible to converse with you as you appear to be changing your words and I have reached the point now that I have had to spend hours taking screen captures of all that you have written in order to have full faith that nothing is getting changed or edited after you post it.

Now onto what you write about the somewhat strange notion that the time delay in the albums release & the single release would effect whether there was a relationship between the music and the graphics in the video, you write this:-
[Once again let me repeat that I don't think that the word is "money", nor it is intended to sound like "money". The similarity is coincidental. The word was there in the original track on the album, which came out much earlier than the video. If Mike really wanted to attach a meaning to it, he would have done a much better job of it already in the album -he didn't need a video to reinforce its supposed meaning.]

Then went on to say this: [Also, what I think you ought to remember is that this video for "Sentinel" came later than the music. It was made for the single version [3'54''] of "Sentinel", which, of course, being an edit of the album version, was made later than the piece on the album. Because of this, I don't think Mike Oldfield had any creative input into the creation of the imagery in the video. Of course he may have been very much hands-on when he did TWC - it was intended as a "Video Album", and the TWC video was released simultaneously with the Islands album. But then the same may very well be not true at all for this video, which is intended as a promotional tool for a single release which came out later [not simultaneously!] than the album on which the music was originally released. In most short films (commonly called music videos) which are intended as promotional tools, the artist has no creative input at all as far as the imagery is concerned. The director is responsible for it. This is the way it works: the director, production designer, choreographer, etc. come up with various ideas, various themes, and they pitch all of that to the artist. The artist says "That one is OK" and that's all of his/her input. :) So I don't think that Mike Oldfield wrote and recorded his piece of music "Sentinel" to be specifically about Native Americans (as the video was made later than the music, and, as I said, the ideas are not his) nor did he attach any particular meaning to what is being sung. He liked those sounds at the time he wrote and recorded the music. The fact that they may have a meaning which is connected to the video is purely and entirely coincidental.]

Ugo I can not see any sense in the argument you put forward here regarding timing of releases & in the UK there was little delay in the albums release & the single, in fact as far as I know the album came out on the 31st of August 1992 & the single was released 22 days latter! to my perception of time that hardly qualifies as you put it: [the album, which came out much earlier than the video.]  Ugo 22 days is not to me a long time its a mere 3 weeks which would lead one to maybe feel the video and planned release was worked out long before the album came out.

Lastly you seem to go on to twist my words to mean I was simply saying the video was only about the Native Indians! when I thought I had made it fairly clear, that the video is about the Indian view of money and that the graphics in the back ground are clearly not solely about the Indian way of life but more their view of the old ways, the values they had before the white man walked upon their lands.  That some still attempt bravely to hold onto.  In case within all your knowledge of MO you had not realised, Mike holds a deep affinity with the Indian culture as he also does with many others who try to live as one with nature.

The images we see in the video back ground are of the western world's so called advanced civilizations that had not worked out and collapsed, democracies that were based on money!! and the fact that this is what the western world had taken them when invading their lands, a fools economy based on unstable, unsustainable ideas & this ruined the healthy way of life that they once lived, living as one in their surroundings at peace with mother earth, with & within nature.


--------------
L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
Back to top
Profile PM 
0+1(I1) Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 418
Joined: Mar. 2011
Posted: Sep. 08 2011, 22:43

Quote (Ugo @ Sep. 05 2011, 12:56)
@ eye-one: please don't twist my words (again). I did not change my mind. I wrote the same thing in two different ways. Muy-yeh, muy-yeh oh, muy muy-yeh was an attempt to write it in English ortography. Ma-y-yeh, ma-y-yeh oh, ma-y-ma-y-yeh is phonetic, i.e. to be read exactly as written. I didn't change U's to A's, I just changed the orthography. I didn't realize that this change would be so important. However, I was talking to nightspore, pointing out that in my mother tongue the words sounds like ma-y-yeh, ma-y-yeh oh, ma-y-ma-y-yeh, and that everyone who has a different mother tongue from mine can hear and intepret them in a different way.

Once again let me repeat that I don't think that the word is "money", nor it is intended to sound like "money". The similarity is coincidental. The word was there in the original track on the album, which came out much earlier than the video. If Mike really wanted to attach a meaning to it, he would have done a much better job of it already in the album - he didn't need a video to reinforce its supposed meaning.

@ nightspore: thanks a lot for the pic, very cool. :cool:

For reference in my previous reply post. So as readers do not need to go changing pages in order to read Ugo's post to which I am reffering to in the above.

--------------
L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
Back to top
Profile PM 
Ugo Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 5495
Joined: April 2000
Posted: Sep. 09 2011, 07:24

@ I1: let me tell you that, by reading your long posts here and elsewhere, I have come to just two conclusions:

1) You are as stubborn as a mule and nothing will ever shake the headstrongness of your convinctions, not even objective evidence.

2) You are not a fan. You are a fanatic.

As I do not like talking to extremely stubborn people, or to fanatical people, I think that the wisest move for me would be to stop replying to this and all the other threads where you are posting. The trouble is that I cannot.

For the moment,
Over and out,
Ugo Coppola


--------------
Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
Back to top
Profile PM 
0+1(I1) Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 418
Joined: Mar. 2011
Posted: Sep. 09 2011, 08:58

Quote (Ugo @ Sep. 09 2011, 14:24)
@ I1: let me tell you that, by reading your long posts here and elsewhere, I have come to just two conclusions:

1) You are as stubborn as a mule and nothing will ever shake the headstrongness of your convinctions, not even objective evidence.

2) You are not a fan. You are a fanatic.

As I do not like talking to extremely stubborn people, or to fanatical people, I think that the wisest move for me would be to stop replying to this and all the other threads where you are posting. The trouble is that I cannot.

For the moment,
Over and out,
Ugo Coppola

No Ugo I am not a fanatic If I was I would of been here years ago like you.

I just have a lot to tell in a very short time whilst I still have my eyesight.  I, unlike you, have had many many years of Mike works in parrallel with my life & I have had time to see his work grow and the story with it, where you perhaps have had to try and take it all in in one fairly short go and not had time for his work to fully grow on your minds eye or ear.

My hope for you is that one day you will really hear what we hear, because then this music will sound oh so different.

Ugo you are right!! I generally see little valid argument in much of what you write against others points of view not just my/our own!  I am not the mule can you not see Ugo?  Take a real good look at all your arguments.  When I take a eye glass to them & your ideas I have seen no evidence put forward by you that has logic, they are all only right because you think so and say so.  At least I do all I can to use logic, not of the one but of the 3 in minimum number, so when you the individual speak or write with the mind of one you argue you are right over and above the minds of at least 3 people

However when I do agree with you and write in words to say so as clearly as I can, you appear to never, or very rarely read them, as you straight away argue as if I am disagreeing with you when I am not, so yes you would be doing us both a favour if you could show restraint.  Maybe when you have spent the best part of 40 years seeing & hearing what Mike does you will see things differently because for 18 years I was far less of a seeing person, and more like you are now, then the lights came on and slowly got brighter!  It may also happen for you as Mike says when you open your eyes.

Nor do I like having to deal with stubborn people, especially when I am not getting anything out of it as I am with you, my words to you seem to be a waste of time.

So yes once I have finished my replies to the things you have written so far, I will honour your wish as written over and over again & do all I can to help you fulfill your wish to stop replying to the things that I write.
I will do this by ignoring your replies, as you seem to suggest here you do not have the will power to prevent yourself from replying to posts in which you do not want to be involved, so I will be your strength and ignore you whilst you go about your ways Ugo.

Before I do though here is a little treat for all ears & eyes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRFjyv54KN4&feature=related

CIAO I1...


--------------
L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
Back to top
Profile PM 
0+1(I1) Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 418
Joined: Mar. 2011
Posted: Sep. 14 2011, 13:45

This topic shares some points with another topic placed else where on this forum so here is a link to it:-
http://tubular.net/forums....;t=8134

The next link has Mike explain the making of the video for "LET THERE BE LIGHT" but in it & also on the other topic Mike speaks about his affinity to the RED INDIANS.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMvVyzi_qI0&feature=related


--------------
L◎ST ◎MMADAWN VERSI◎N RIDDLE ANSWER
 mIChaeI GOrDOn OIDfIeId.
=  I C   1  G◎D   OO ID I I
or replace the L's that were turned in to I's & 1 gets
ID◎L G◎LD ID◎L (4 ANSWER IN FULL + EXPLANATION, C ALBUM SECTION/☮MMADAWN/i-say-i-say-i-say-i-say-in-answer4XXX4Acr⊕ss
Back to top
Profile PM 
28 replies since Sep. 03 2011, 11:55 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Pages: (2) < 1 [2] >






Forums | Links | Instruments | Discography | Tours | Articles | FAQ | Artwork | Wallpapers
Biography | Gallery | Videos | MIDI / Ringtones | Tabs | Lyrics | Books | Sitemap | Contact

Mike Oldfield Tubular.net
Mike Oldfield Tubular.net