Welcome Guest
[ Log In :: Register ]

Pages: (3) < 1 2 [3] >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Topic: Santa Maria, Sailing from Side to Side< Next Oldest | Next Newest >
nightspore Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 4759
Joined: Mar. 2008
Posted: Oct. 07 2010, 08:12

Quote (wiga @ Oct. 07 2010, 07:56)
Later on, I am going to talk about my observations on the mood....

I'd say a kind of transcendent joy in the face of relentless, inexorable forces (represented by that constant wave-like sound that sweeps from left to right).
Back to top
Profile PM 
Ugo Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 5495
Joined: April 2000
Posted: Oct. 07 2010, 08:19

@ wiga and everybody else: well, here are my considerations on "Santa Maria"

1. A boy sings "La Santa Maria". "La" is "The" in Spanish and Italian. "The Santa Maria" is a ship. It is nothing else. The boy's singing, to me, has NO religious connotations at all. Indeed, it sounds quite triumphant. Something like: "The Santa Maria, what a magnificent ship!"

2. The male voice choir sings a melody which is similar to the old Soviet hymn (no, it has nothing to do with Adeste Fideles), with words referring to a journey (an exploration journey) by sea. Again, this is a mariners' choir, with absolutely no religious overtones or connotations.

Some of you may know that I'm a Christian Catholic and a very fervent believer. But this doesn't make me see religious connotations in everything, especially in a song which IMHO is not meant to have religious connotations. As I see it, there is quite a lot of religious feeling in "Sunlight Shining Through Clouds" and even in the instrumental "Lake Constance". There is none at all in "Santa Maria". @ nightspore, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the song is meant to represent a journey by sea. But still it doesn't give me the emotional feelings that it gives to you. :)


--------------
Ugo C. - a devoted Amarokian
Back to top
Profile PM 
wiga Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sep. 2008
Posted: Oct. 07 2010, 09:39

I don't particularly need to talk about religion either, but if I am listening to music which sounds like church music - and the church could very well be called "Santa Maria",  then l want to share that.

"Santa Maria" might be a boat - but it sounds like a church.


--------------
Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
Back to top
Profile PM 
nightspore Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 4759
Joined: Mar. 2008
Posted: Oct. 08 2010, 04:34

Quote (Ugo @ Oct. 07 2010, 08:19)
Some of you may know that I'm a Christian Catholic and a very fervent believer. But this doesn't make me see religious connotations in everything, especially in a song which IMHO is not meant to have religious connotations.

The only thing is that the vocal style of the song is very much in the style of mass settings by (say) Mozart, Bruckner, Bach, etc, where are a very short text (eg "Kyrie Eleison") is repeated over and over, first by a soloist and then by a chorus. What I think has happened is that Mr O has heard a lot of this sort of music and it has shaped the form of "Santa Maria" - perhaps only unconsciously. As I've said before, much of the artistic creation process is unconscious. To sum up, I'd say that the overall "statement" (perhaps unconscious) of "Santa Maria" is that the discovery of America, in that it was a venture into the unknown, was a religious experience.
Back to top
Profile PM 
wiga Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 2113
Joined: Sep. 2008
Posted: Oct. 08 2010, 14:53

Quote (nightspore @ Oct. 08 2010, 09:34)
To sum up, I'd say that the overall "statement" (perhaps unconscious) of "Santa Maria" is that the discovery of America, in that it was a venture into the unknown, was a religious experience.

Yes - that SOUNDS pretty much like a good fit.


--------------
Barn's burnt down - now I can see the moon.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Matt Offline




Group: Admins
Posts: 1186
Joined: Nov. 2002
Posted: Oct. 14 2010, 10:19

This topic was closed for a while after some of the discussions became agressive. There has been editing to remove inflammatory or off topic posts and try to strip the topic back down to the main points of discussion in the hope that debate can continue for those still interested in the original points.

Please try and remember the forum guidelines. If the discussions become agressive again the topic will be deleted.


--------------
"I say I say I say I say, what's got three bottles and five eyes and no legs and two wheels"
Back to top
Profile PM 
Cooper Roy Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: April 2010
Posted: Oct. 15 2010, 18:19

Mike Oldfield is a Musician.

--------------
"I have nothing but sympathy for how people behave-and nothing but laughter to console them with.Laughter is my religion.In the manner of most religions, I admit my laughter is pretty desperate."
                                                                   John Irving
Back to top
Profile PM 
Cooper Roy Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: April 2010
Posted: Oct. 15 2010, 18:21

I have Semantic Pragmatic Disorder/Borderline Aspergers Syndrome.
I am not a Musician.


--------------
"I have nothing but sympathy for how people behave-and nothing but laughter to console them with.Laughter is my religion.In the manner of most religions, I admit my laughter is pretty desperate."
                                                                   John Irving
Back to top
Profile PM 
nightspore Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 4759
Joined: Mar. 2008
Posted: Oct. 15 2010, 20:51

Quote (Cooper Roy @ Oct. 15 2010, 18:21)
I have Semantic Pragmatic Disorder/Borderline Aspergers Syndrome.
I am not a Musician.

Sorry, Cooper, you can't buy that at McDonalds!  :laugh:

I'm glad the thread has been reopened, because I had some further thoughts about the form of Santa Maria. I think one of Sir M's criticisms was that the phrase is repeated over and over; I mentioned that this is typical of much sacred music (eg, the "Kyrie" in masses is just a few words long and tends to get repeated a fair few times throughout the work). I think the reason that the texts in sacred music tend to be short and repetitive is: 1) shortness serves to focus the devotee on that one key thought, and nothing else; and 2) the repetition keeps hammering that thought home.

All this reaffirms my belief that "Santa Maria" is one of Mike's most polished creations.
Back to top
Profile PM 
Sir Mustapha Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 2802
Joined: April 2003
Posted: Oct. 16 2010, 08:00

I haven't heard actual sacred music, but I know that, in many church chants, phrases are sung three times because of the Holy Trinity. The song could have used that link smartly, after all, there were three ships on Columbus's expedition, right? But no, there is no link at all, and no pattern of "threes" as far as I recall.

--------------
Check out http://ferniecanto.com.br for all my music, including my latest albums: Don't Stay in the City, Making Amends and Builders of Worlds.
Also check my Bandcamp page: http://ferniecanto.bandcamp.com
Back to top
Profile PM WEB 
nightspore Offline




Group: Members
Posts: 4759
Joined: Mar. 2008
Posted: Oct. 16 2010, 11:01

Quote (Sir Mustapha @ Oct. 16 2010, 08:00)
I haven't heard actual sacred music, but I know that, in many church chants, phrases are sung three times because of the Holy Trinity. The song could have used that link smartly, after all, there were three ships on Columbus's expedition, right? But no, there is no link at all, and no pattern of "threes" as far as I recall.

It would be rather limiting symbolically if the only way that the sacred could be alluded to were through threeness - perhaps a bit of a cliche now, too. (Mozart, incidentally, in The Magic flute saturated his opera with threeness, but as an allusion to Masonic ritual.)

The reasons in favour of perceiving a (perhaps subconsciously intended) sacred theme are these:

1) the vocal style is typical of sacred music;
2) the word "sancta" is part of the text (it denotes a ship, yes, but it connotes the sacred;
3) the short phrases and repetition of them are characteristic of much classical sacred works;
4) the subject matter of the song - a venture into the unknown - invites metaphorical comparison with the religious experience (also a reaching out to the unknown)
Back to top
Profile PM 
Milamber Offline




Group: Musicians
Posts: 2263
Joined: Feb. 2010
Posted: Oct. 16 2010, 18:47

To my ears the song denotes a Hymn like quality.
The pureness of the voice and the triumphant chorus.
Listening yesterday I could visualize the Santa crashing through the waves and the victorious feeling of adventure and wonder.

Also the symbiotic relationship mariners had with their vessels almost imply's what one may experience with religion as one cannot exist without the other.

A truly beautiful song which thanks to the board I am rediscovering with great aplomb.

No hard feelings :)
Back to top
Profile PM 
51 replies since April 10 2009, 21:59 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >

[ Track this topic :: Email this topic :: Print this topic ]

Pages: (3) < 1 2 [3] >






Forums | Links | Instruments | Discography | Tours | Articles | FAQ | Artwork | Wallpapers
Biography | Gallery | Videos | MIDI / Ringtones | Tabs | Lyrics | Books | Sitemap | Contact

Mike Oldfield Tubular.net
Mike Oldfield Tubular.net